Polygamy Catch 22

[rockfox]

I think it's pretty safe to say that in pursuing a second wife, it is best to find a godly, virtuous woman. Yet that presents a problem.

A godly woman would honor her father and mother, would come from a Christian household, would respect wise council. Yet the vast majority of such would strongly disapprove of polygamy, would call it sin, would even withdraw themselves from her should she pursue a married man.

And that presents a bit of a catch 22. The very women who are best for marriage are the least likely to be open to it. Would protect themselves against pursuit by married men.

Is there a way around this? Am I missing something? False construct? Overstating the hurdle?

What say you?

Would love to hear some real life stories about how polygamous marriages came to be despite these hurdles.

 

[steve]

You are taking the 30,000 ft view and seeing women as an average.
You are right, it is pointless to expect the average godly woman to want to be a sister wife.

Your family is not an average family. It has, for one reason or another, chosen to live outside of the box that traditional marriage comes in. You were probably led to that understanding by the Almighty.

You only need one woman, the right one, to have a sister wife.
Do you have the faith to believe that Yah can draw on a woman in the same way that He drew on you?
That He can draw you together?

Spend your time and energy in prayer and in the growth process to become the best husband/family that you can become. Hint: you still won’t be prepared enough, no matter how perfect you become.
Pray that she is going through the same process to become her maturest best for your family.

Yes, I tried this at home. YMMV
(Your mileage may vary)

 

[PeteR]

This is a catch-22, but there are multiple overrides, imho.

Western culture is changing, and quickly. Poly at least acceptable as alt life. Moderate Christians, ie. they know Scripture is true and they need to be walking in it but aren't, tend to be more open to exploring an option that seems 'rebellious' but is Biblically acceptable... Slakes a double thirst.' These'll need instruction in righteousness and virtue.

Hebrew roots ladies tend to fit the virtuous woman category very well and are serious about Scripture. Many are very aware of this option but social stigma or percieved stigma are the major impediments... attitude seems to be 'I can hang on and wait another year, maybe something good comes along.' Ie, keep fishing. They don't fully understand need for covering and need instruction in that area.

This partly goes back to the thread on the sharing article in PJ#31. Honestly, there is no perfect woman (or perfect man). Each/all of us need work. Key is working on self and in marriage, pray and be willing to invest in the lives of others. Messy, yes. Righteous? Double yes.

I remain convinced that personal relationships developed at work and in the world around will lead to fruit. Takes time, effort and persistence with other person's wellbeing, not our poly desires, driving the train.

Example, I am deeply concerned for the difficult circumstances and Biblically precarious position of single uncovered ladies. As it plays out, I interact with and counsel five or six different single ladies because they need that. Most, not all, know where I stand, but I am fostering growth in them in many Godly areas, not just Biblical marriage. Maybe one comes along, maybe not. They have grown. I have grown. Win-win. And, they have a man they can lean on at points. Not full/true covering, but it is a measure of protection.

Recognize the journey is more important than the destination. I.e, long game of growth in me, my family, culture, etc. This has totally changed my sons who initially accepted poly academically, but weren't personally interested. Now, two have found a desire personally and as they interact with young ladies it has been amazing to watch their growth and spine in learning now to deal with rebellion and the heart issues this topic exposes. They are growing in areas I only recently grew in. Wow!

So, long game.

Another thing: the topic us being FORCED into the mainstream by the Almighty. The trainwreck video 119 Ministries introduced yesterday will reach hundreds of thousands. Refuting and exposing their errors is a huge boon to truth, exposure and acceptance, particularly in the growing Hebrew roots communities.

 

[Cap]

Isaiah 4:1 does seem to imply that something is not right in the women's lives it is speaking about.

 

[steve]

Isaiah 4:1 does seem to imply that something is not right in the women's lives it is speaking about.

Other than the fact that they were single?

I’m not being snarky.

 

[Cap]

Other than the fact that they were single?

I’m not being snarky.

No snark taken.

4The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit a of judgment and a spirit b of fire.

The rest of Isaiah 4 seems to imply where they are is not as good as where they could be. It's more than just being single, although that is true. But, what does single mean in thier lives, and what have they been through to get there. Maybe nothing, maybe everything.

 

[steve]

No snark taken.

4The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit a of judgment and a spirit b of fire.

The rest of Isaiah 4 seems to imply where they are is not as good as where they could be. It's more than just being single, although that is true. But, what does single mean in thier lives, and what have they been through to get there. Maybe nothing, maybe everything.

Ahh, I see where you are coming from.
I believe that the root cause, where their train leaves the tracks, is when they deny the Devine design of headship. The things listed are the fruit of that rejection.
When they choose headship, suddenly righteousness breaks out, flowers start blooming and the birds return to singing.

 

[Cap]

Ahh, I see where you are coming from.
I believe that the root cause, where their train leaves the tracks, is when they deny the Devine design of headship. The things listed are the fruit of that rejection.
When they choose headship, suddenly righteousness breaks out, flowers start blooming and the birds return to singing.

I can see that.

 

[rockfox]

Thank you all for the good responses, eager to hear more.

You only need one woman, the right one, to have a sister wife.
Do you have the faith to believe that Yah can draw on a woman in the same way that He drew on you?
That He can draw you together?

Spend your time and energy in prayer and in the growth process to become the best husband/family that you can become.

Thanks Steve. I am putting time and energy in to those things.

Can God do that? Yes. Will He? I'm not certain that that is how He operates.

there is no perfect woman

True. The perfect woman would have no need of a spiritual leader. Yet I'm not looking for perfect, just better than average. Is it too much to ask for a woman who walks in virtue?

 

[rockfox]

No snark taken.

4The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit a of judgment and a spirit b of fire.

The rest of Isaiah 4 seems to imply where they are is not as good as where they could be. It's more than just being single, although that is true. But, what does single mean in thier lives, and what have they been through to get there. Maybe nothing, maybe everything.

This is a really good point. Though it's not clear from the text that anything is wrong more than they lack a covering. Though practically speaking I'd be very surprised if a lack of covering was the only problem.

Has anyone heard of multiple women (even just 2) coming together to approach a man for marriage as in Isaiah 4?

Multiple women banding together to propose to one man certainly speaks of a very different situation than when a man is pursuing a single woman (for monogamy or polygamy).

Although, on second thought, is it 7 different women approaching a man for marriage around the same time or 7 women banding together to offer him marriage?

https://biblehub.com/isaiah/4-1.htm

In English they're doing it together, though I my Hebrew is too poor to say from the original language.

Practically though, until the women start throwing themselves at me in bunches, Isaiah 4 doesn't really come into play (I don't say that to throw it out, but that the mental transformation those woman would go through to get to that place makes them very different than the norm).

But there is a practical problem for the more common situation of a man contemplating adding one wife. It is very common for women to 'do it right this time' when that biological clock gets ticking loudly. In church contexts this will be construed as repentance. But the results in marriage aren't any better than the world.

 

[steve]

This is a really good point. Though it's not clear from the text that anything is wrong more than they lack a covering. Though practically speaking I'd be very surprised if a lack of covering was the only problem.

Has anyone heard of multiple women (even just 2) coming together to approach a man for marriage as in Isaiah 4?

Multiple women banding together to propose to one man certainly speaks of a very different situation than when a man is pursuing a single woman (for monogamy or polygamy).

Although, on second thought, is it 7 different women approaching a man for marriage around the same time or 7 women banding together to offer him marriage?

https://biblehub.com/isaiah/4-1.htm

In English they're doing it together, though I my Hebrew is too poor to say from the original language.

Practically though, until the women start throwing themselves at me in bunches, Isaiah 4 doesn't really come into play (I don't say that to throw it out, but that the mental transformation those woman would go through to get to that place makes them very different than the norm).

But there is a practical problem for the more common situation of a man contemplating adding one wife. It is very common for women to 'do it right this time' when that biological clock gets ticking loudly. In church contexts this will be construed as repentance. But the results in marriage aren't any better than the world.

I think that if you look at the preceding verses and compare to what comes after, this is describing a huge change in the whole culture. A time of revival.
What precedes revival? Repentance. The fact that they are choosing to change their lifestyle and put themselves under a man signifies repentance to me.
A wholesale change like this with that many women getting the picture seems to me like an end times event.

If it’s just 7 women dribbling in one by one wanting to get married, I guess that’s possible. But that doesn’t give as good of an explanation for the context. The cultural changes that are there.

I will work with it either way, though.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I think that if you look at the preceding verses and compare to what comes after, this is describing a huge change in the whole culture. A time of revival.
What precedes revival? Repentance. The fact that they are choosing to change their lifestyle and put themselves under a man signifies repentance to me.
A wholesale change like this with that many women getting the picture seems to me like an end times event.

If it’s just 7 women dribbling in one by one wanting to get married, I guess that’s possible. But that doesn’t give as good of an explanation for the context. The cultural changes that are there.

I will work with it either way, though.

I believe it will be after this country labors to bring forth the kingdom and Babylon gets her come-upance. Not sure the chronology, but until most of these modern women no longer have the ability to just pick the working man's pockets via big brother sugar daddy, they are not going to see men as needful. When the guvmunt no longer gives them credits, and Walmart no longer has food on the shelves the fellow with the homegrown veggies and milk cow will look really good. Lol
Then the fruit of the vine will be sweet for the escaped of Israel.
We just need to do our best to fit our hearts and our children for the coming kingdom. Isaiah 4 indicates the women will be abundant at some point.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I think it's pretty safe to say that in pursuing a second wife, it is best to find a godly, virtuous woman. Yet that presents a problem.

A godly woman would honor her father and mother, would come from a Christian household, would respect wise council. Yet the vast majority of such would strongly disapprove of polygamy, would call it sin, would even withdraw themselves from her should she pursue a married man.

I've long seen the irony. Women interested in married men are usually looking for a fling and lack morals, and the virtuous women that would interest my hubby think people like us lack morals.
*shrugs*
I guess we just trust YHWH for whatever purpose He has in letting us understand marriage better, and trust His purposes will be fulfilled. Maybe it will be something we live, maybe it will be our children. Lotsa children would be neat. Lotsa grandchildren would be neat too! (And maybe less work n more fun for us?)

 

[rockfox]

I've long seen the irony. Women interested in married men are usually looking for a fling and lack morals, and the virtuous women that would interest my hubby think people like us lack morals.
*shrugs*
I guess we just trust YHWH for whatever purpose He has in letting us understand marriage better, and trust His purposes will be fulfilled. Maybe it will be something we live, maybe it will be our children. Lotsa children would be neat. Lotsa grandchildren would be neat too! (And maybe less work n more fun for us?)

It's long been observed that a wedding ring improves one's chances with the ladies. Unfortunately, amoung the ones looking for more than a pickup, they mostly want to win, not share.

We could do worse than to simply lay the groundwork for the generation to come. Though that day is far off, I know I'll be keeping an eye out for married men who'd be good for my daughters (not that I'd discount singles either). And likewise support my son's should they choose that path.

 

[Pacman]

Isaiah 4 happens after Isaiah 3 I suspect a major worldwide event such as a pandemic along with ww3 and as @Joleneakamama mentioned major food shortage and such. The wicked women will be judged Isaiah 3:16-24 and I believe they repent as a result of the judgment. Many men will be killed in battle vs. 25-26. Thus the imbalance of numbers of worthy men verses women needing covering as indicated in 4:1

 

[Richard]

This is an excellent post. Exactly what I needed this morning as this has been on my mind lately. Very insightful. These post speak to some of the challenges that I am currently dealing with. Thank you all for the healthy dialogue!

 

[steve]

Many men will be killed in battle vs. 25-26. Thus the imbalance of numbers of worthy men verses women needing covering as indicated in 4:1

I feel that people make too much of the imbalance of the number of men being the reason for the 7/1 ratio.
Wars nowadays are not fought mano a mano.
Worthy men is going to be the problem in a very ungodly culture.

 

[Pacman]

I feel that people make too much of the imbalance of the number of men being the reason for the 7/1 ratio.
Wars nowadays are not fought mano a mano.
Worthy men is going to be the problem in a very ungodly culture.

I agree with you mostly about there being a lack of worthy men. That's already the case imo. But the passage makes it clear that men will die in battle so I think both are at play...

 

[rockfox]

There are some verses in the OT which have multiple fulfillment's. Could the beginning of Isaiah be a type which repeats itself civilizations go through their predictable cycles? We've had several war's in the last 500 years which have lead to monogamy being relaxed in favor of polygamy. And one (WW1 in the UK) where it was not and we saw a flowering of feminism and single motherhood and dramatic loss of faith in society.

We are not so very far out from war here in the US.

[edit: that's not a rhetorical question. I don't know. Just a theory born of observation. Prophetic interpretation is not my strong suite.]

 

[Mojo]

You're correct in your assssment, but don't discount the changing social views of many in the church, especially amongst the young. Believe it or not, you'll probably start to see the shift in opinion on this in the next few years in the 20something demographic...just ripe for marriage. It's a two edged sword in that they may also see homosexuality in a neutral light, but also accept other aspects of alternative lifestyles too (polygyny).