• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Meat Polygynous culture is already here -- a perverse one.

Also, I would like to know your thoughts on the desirability of a polygynous culture unshackled by the constraints of the Torah.

I would say that not only polygyny has disastrous results without the rules and guidance of the Torah but that marriage in general is done wrong and has disastrous results without following the Torah... And until men and their families are following the Torah, they wont see how it's so much better and what they have been missing out on. Yahweh has the best rules to follow then and always! ..and it translates into making your family life so much more desirable than most people will ever find out with their unwillingness to follow His commands.
 
Return to Torah is great. But read it, as Written, first.
Good advice.
There IS no "Biblical prohibition" on a "divorced" woman remarrying!!!!
There is, sadly, quite a bit of emotional baggage attached to this topic -- mostly because men generally cannot keep their hands off divorced women -- thus empowering women to leave their husbands, which they do at astounding rates. This is an epidemic in our culture.

Yahshua Messiah taught on this topic very plainly. Marriage to a divorced woman is adultery. Divorce does not end a marriage. The bonds of marriage are broken only at death.
  • Matthew 5:32 reads, “whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
  • Matthew 19:9 reads, “whoever marries her who has been put away commits adultery.”
  • Mark 10:11-12 reads, “11: And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12: And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
  • Luke 16:18 reads, “Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”
Those who claim that it is adultery to marry a divorced woman only if she has received no certificate of divorce fail to contextualize Scriptural teachings on this matter. Yah brings two together to be one flesh, which no man, even with a certificate of divorce, can separate. Mat 19:4-6 reads, “And He answering, said to them, “Did you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what Elohim has joined together, let man not separate.”

Marriage cannot be undone by man -- even with a certificate of divorce.

The marriage contract ends at death, a fact that Shaul explained in Romans chapter 7:2-3, which reads, “For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.” Even Deuteronomy 24:1-5 gives no license for a woman to be remarried once she is given a bill of divorce and sent away. Read it again in Hebrew; no permission is given.

And the text is plain that a woman who goes to another man is defiled. Scriptures are clear on this point. She is not defiled merely to her first husband but rather simply defiled -- in general. Even biology bears witness to the truth of Scriptures with microchimerism and telegony.

On the matter of a "mistranslation" of the word "divorce", the claim is that Yahshua condemned marriage to “put away” (“apoluō”) women yet tacitly condoned marriage to “divorced” (“apostasion”) women. This claim is in error, because a divorce is a certificate, a noun. "Putting away" is simply a verb. A divorce is a certificate, a writing, written proof that the woman is no longer under her husband’s authority. It is the means by which she is able to prove that her vows cannot be nullified by her husband, thus making here at liberty to conduct her own business affairs with the concern that a meddling husband would override her contracts. Being “put away” is the result of divorce. In other words “put away” is a verb. A “certificate” is a noun, and a “divorcement” is an adjective that describes the certificate. A man gives his wife a “certificate of divorce” (the noun and the adjective) and “sends her away” (the verb). To claim that a man can send his wife away without a certificate of divorce is simply not correct, again, because divorce does not end marriage; it merely allows a woman to live on her own -- where the temptation to latch onto another man is great (and men of weak constitution take the bait, and she should have returned to original husband). Only death ends marriage.

If men would simply keep their hands off divorced women, as men in this country knew they should as recently as 70 years ago, there would be no incentive for women to leave their husbands as they do today.
 
Forbidding to marry" is such a b!t(#.
It is interesting to me that most of both kinds of forbidding comes from people that are religious.
They leave the women kicked to the curb devalued, and they shame men for providing anything for more then one woman.

Just a lawful partner to enjoy relations and make babies with is a HUGE plus, but one that provides protects and wants to raise those babies right is so extremely valuable.

Let more believing women figure out they can choose from among the married men that have moral INTEGRITY, and the world will change.
 
Good advice.

There is, sadly, quite a bit of emotional baggage attached to this topic -- mostly because men generally cannot keep their hands off divorced women -- thus empowering women to leave their husbands, which they do at astounding rates. This is an epidemic in our culture.

Yahshua Messiah taught on this topic very plainly. Marriage to a divorced woman is adultery. Divorce does not end a marriage. The bonds of marriage are broken only at death.
  • Matthew 5:32 reads, “whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
  • Matthew 19:9 reads, “whoever marries her who has been put away commits adultery.”
  • Mark 10:11-12 reads, “11: And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12: And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
  • Luke 16:18 reads, “Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”
Those who claim that it is adultery to marry a divorced woman only if she has received no certificate of divorce fail to contextualize Scriptural teachings on this matter. Yah brings two together to be one flesh, which no man, even with a certificate of divorce, can separate. Mat 19:4-6 reads, “And He answering, said to them, “Did you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 “So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what Elohim has joined together, let man not separate.”

Marriage cannot be undone by man -- even with a certificate of divorce.

The marriage contract ends at death, a fact that Shaul explained in Romans chapter 7:2-3, which reads, “For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.” Even Deuteronomy 24:1-5 gives no license for a woman to be remarried once she is given a bill of divorce and sent away. Read it again in Hebrew; no permission is given.

And the text is plain that a woman who goes to another man is defiled. Scriptures are clear on this point. She is not defiled merely to her first husband but rather simply defiled -- in general. Even biology bears witness to the truth of Scriptures with microchimerism and telegony.

On the matter of a "mistranslation" of the word "divorce", the claim is that Yahshua condemned marriage to “put away” (“apoluō”) women yet tacitly condoned marriage to “divorced” (“apostasion”) women. This claim is in error, because a divorce is a certificate, a noun. "Putting away" is simply a verb. A divorce is a certificate, a writing, written proof that the woman is no longer under her husband’s authority. It is the means by which she is able to prove that her vows cannot be nullified by her husband, thus making here at liberty to conduct her own business affairs with the concern that a meddling husband would override her contracts. Being “put away” is the result of divorce. In other words “put away” is a verb. A “certificate” is a noun, and a “divorcement” is an adjective that describes the certificate. A man gives his wife a “certificate of divorce” (the noun and the adjective) and “sends her away” (the verb). To claim that a man can send his wife away without a certificate of divorce is simply not correct, again, because divorce does not end marriage; it merely allows a woman to live on her own -- where the temptation to latch onto another man is great (and men of weak constitution take the bait, and she should have returned to original husband). Only death ends marriage.

If men would simply keep their hands off divorced women, as men in this country knew they should as recently as 70 years ago, there would be no incentive for women to leave their husbands as they do today.
Absolute bull pucky.
I don’t have time at this point to debunk it, but I am sure that someone will.
 
If men would simply keep their hands off divorced women, as men in this country knew they should as recently as 70 years ago, there would be no incentive for women to leave their husbands as they do today.
This is true, and women DO leave their husbands at a sad rate. Men should think long and hard before they get involved with a quitter (and so should women!) Yet I have seen marriages (so called) in which the man did not treat his wife right and she could "find no favor in his eyes." I see passages in the Torah that to me INSTRUCT a man to divorce (free) his woman if he is not satisfied with her. The prohibition against him taking her back after she is "defiled" would prevent men from being casual about it, and divorce and remarriage becoming a means to wife swap. If a man can't be happy with her....control of reconciliation is in HER hand when the husband sends her out.
It would be hell on earth for a woman to be bound for life to a man that she could not please. If she is not suitable for the man in whose home she is, letting her have a chance at finding one who will smile at and appreciate her may be better then waiting until things get worse.
 
I will (for the interim) say that I find insistence on this point as being cruel and unusual.
 
There is, sadly, quite a bit of emotional baggage attached to this topic
I agree, and quite a lot of cultural baggage.

It is written, If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace (1 Cor. 7:12-15). The Saint is free to remarry after the unbelieving partner leaves. God doesn't punish the believing partner for being abandoned by the unbeliever and neither should other believers!
 
The Saint is free to remarry after the unbelieving partner leaves. God doesn't punish the believing partner for being abandoned by the unbeliever and neither should other believers!
Amen. Agreed. But note that the question of getting divorced differs from the question of marrying a divorced woman. The verses you have quoted deal with the first question, the question of an unbeliever leaving a marriage, the bondage referring to the unbeliever staying in the marriage. In other words, "if the unbeliever wants to leave, let her."

But the epidemic of divorce we see comes from getting the second question, the question of marrying a divorced woman, wrong. The divorce has happened, and that divorced woman off the menu, so to speak. Yahshua Messiah clearly and unambiguously teaches that marriage to a divorced woman, divorced for even a valid reason, is adultery.

Even if the divorce is justified, marriage to her is off-limits, adultery. Divorce does not end a marriage, she does not stop being one flesh with her husband any more than she can remove her husband's genetic material from her own body (microchimerism). Only death ends marriage. I encourage men to avoid divorced women as they would avoid married women -- because divorced women are actually still married but living separately; her business contracts can no longer be nullified by her husband (Numbers 30:9). Find a virgin, I encourage. Ideally, a divorced woman should work it out with her husband and return to him, and she should have plenty of incentive to do so -- so, men, hands off. Defiling a divorced woman by having her as wife not only is an act of adultery but also guarantees that she can never return to her husband, as per Deuteronomy 24: 1-4.
 
Yahshua Messiah taught on this topic very plainly. Marriage to a divorced woman is adultery. Divorce does not end a marriage.
IFF He had changed what He so "very plainly" Wrote, then He wouldn't have been the Messiah, but "a liar and the Truth not in Him." (Matthew 5:17-19)

Again, UNDERSTAND what "divorce" is, and what the "emotional baggage" pretends it ought to be.

You won't understand unless you know what the words He used, ORIGINALLY, in context, actually MEAN. And "divorce" wasn't one of 'em.

So, to make this as simple as possible ('study, to show yourself approved') read Deuteronomy 24:1. He says it oh-so 'veeery plainly'. IFF a man does the specific, enumerated things outlined there (and repeated, virtually WORD-for-WORD in v 3) THEN:

"she may go be another man's". Period. Make up a word to call it if you insist, but don't change His.

I contend He is not only Right, but Consistent.
 
Sadly, love feels like condemnation, but it is love in its purest form.
When one uses a misunderstanding/poor scholarship theology to ruin lives, that is the opposite of love.
@Mark C ’s answer is sufficient.
 
your bias toward women initiating divorce impacts the way you treat this passage
Not necessarily. Sin is an equal opportunity destroyer, after all. Considering today's divorce trends where women initiate 90% of the divorces, the verse should be juxtaposed into present-day context for effect.

But if it bothers you that much, let me rephrase. "If the unbeliever wants to leave, let him." The principle applies to both genders.

I thank all who are participating in this thread, as it is fascinating to see what people respond to.
 
"she may go be another man's". Period.
And I am accused of poor scholarship.

Perhaps it would help to understand how different Bible translations deal with the Hebrew text. You can see that translators take interpretive liberties as well, which is why we must read it in the Hebrew.
  • KJV Deuteronomy 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
  • NAS Deuteronomy 24:2 and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's wife,
  • NLT Deuteronomy 24:2 When she leaves his house, she is free to marry another man.
  • TNK Deuteronomy 24:2 she leaves his household and becomes the wife of another man;
  • NIV Deuteronomy 24:2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man,
  • NKJ Deuteronomy 24:2 "when she has departed from his house, and goes and becomes another man's wife,
The question here is in the translations such as the KJV, which reads “she may go and be another man's”, a statement that, to some, implies permission for a woman to remarry, but read it again. The text does not imply permission at all but simply be states how a husband is to handle the situation if she does enjoin herself to another man.

To reach a correct conclusion, we must fully contextualize all of Scriptures, and understand Yahshua’s teaching in Matthew 19:4-5, as he said “’Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,’” And said, “’For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?’” He quotes the Torah, specifically Genesis 2:24, and in so doing, underscores that marriage is an institution established by Yah – an institution that cannot be broken by man even with a bill of divorce.

Looks like we have some men on here with an eye for other men's wives. Now is the time for repentance.
 
Amazing that this is the conclusion you came to out of this discussion.
I would be glad to walk this back if my antagonists can provide a different motive for their line of argumentation.

There are three problems with the idea that Deuteronomy 24:2 supports remarriage to a divorced woman.
  1. Hebrew text: the text does not support the idea. Certain translations pour the meaning into the text, but when we look at the Hebrew, no such permission is explicitly given -- nor even implied. Translators poured the implication into the text.
  2. The context of the verse : the main point of Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is to settle the question of whether a man should take a wife back after she has been with another man. It is written to the husband.
  3. The context of the entirety of Scriptures does not support the idea of marriage to a divorced woman. The abiding principle, which was emphasized by Yahshua Messiah, the two shall become one flesh, is timeless. Yah put them together male and female together -- literally -- both by means of the sex act and by means of microchimerism, and no man can separate them. Wish as you might, you cannot remove the husband's genetic information from the woman's body. Once she becomes that man's, only death ends to covenant of marriage.
The conclusion that marriage to a divorced woman is adultery, as Yahshua taught, is the only conclusion that fits the data provided by the entire testimony of Scriptures.
 
Deu 24:1
'When a man doth take a wife, and hath married her, and it hath been, if she doth not find grace in his eyes (for he hath found in her nakedness of anything), and he hath written for her a writing of divorce, and given it into her hand, and sent her out of his house,
Deu 24:2
and she hath gone out of his house, and hath gone and been another man's,
Deu 24:3
and the latter man hath hated her, and written for her a writing of divorce, and given it into her hand, and sent her out of his house, or when the latter man dieth, who hath taken her to himself for a wife:
Deu 24:4
'Her former husband who sent her away is not able to turn back to take her to be to him for a wife, after that she hath become defiled; for an abomination it is before Jehovah, and thou dost not cause the land to sin which Jehovah thy God is giving to thee -- an inheritance.
The above is the YLT of the passage in question.
It seems the key issue comes down to the phrase "She may go" in the KJV and the phrase "and hath gone" in the YLT. Perhaps someone more versed in grammar and hebrew can shed some light on this because it's a lynchpin issue here. This one word halak.

she may go
PHRASE
h1980
וְהָלְכָה הָלַךְ hālaḵ


Inflected:וְ/הָלְכָה
Root:הָלַךְ
Speaker Icon
Strong's:H1980
English:she may go
Language:Hebrew
Code:H C / Vqq3fs


Word:הָלְכָה
Speech:Verb
Stem:Qal
Type:Sequential Perfect (weqatal)
Person:Third Person
Gender:Feminine
Number:Singular
Long:Hebrew Verb: Qal Sequential Perfect (weqatal) 3rd Person Feminine Singular



Does this word mean "she may go" or "she has gone"?
 
If you are so certain of my poor scholarship, well here is your opportunity to prove it.

Take all the time you need.
@Mark C has shown you the path.
You shouldn’t need to be spoon fed.
 
Back
Top