YAY!!!! Praise God. I'll be praying.
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Practical Questions on Polygyny
- Thread starter Just-a-man
- Start date
Praying
Good luck with the meeting tonight, you probably won't see this until after it. Looking forward to your report.
Pregnancy is not the time to be making big changes like this in your marriage; absolute worst time really. The hormones can mess with their minds in addition to making them way way more insecure. In her mind you're threatening to abandon her at her most vulnerable moment. Go slow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't poly be a violation of the UCMJ? Basically, you lost the right to poly when you signed your life away to the military.
You're also putting your wife in a bad position; she has to basically rule her own life when you are on deployment, be strong and in charge, and then you expect her to magically change that dynamic when you show up again.
And given the dim reputation of military wives, you may want to readjust your expectations for what you can accomplish during this season of life.
That she's a Christian and that you agreed to Christian marriage won't necessarily help you and may only work against you. 90% of Christians won't move off monogamy no matter what you say. You may be able to convince her to believe poly is not sinful in theory, but that won't matter if she wants mono. Most of the time, what has to happen is she wants you more than she wants monogamy.
I don't know what you mean.
What all is she objecting to? Just poly or other stuff?
Does she 100% trust you?
Pregnancy is not the time to be making big changes like this in your marriage; absolute worst time really. The hormones can mess with their minds in addition to making them way way more insecure. In her mind you're threatening to abandon her at her most vulnerable moment. Go slow.
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't poly be a violation of the UCMJ? Basically, you lost the right to poly when you signed your life away to the military.
You're also putting your wife in a bad position; she has to basically rule her own life when you are on deployment, be strong and in charge, and then you expect her to magically change that dynamic when you show up again.
And given the dim reputation of military wives, you may want to readjust your expectations for what you can accomplish during this season of life.
That she's a Christian and that you agreed to Christian marriage won't necessarily help you and may only work against you. 90% of Christians won't move off monogamy no matter what you say. You may be able to convince her to believe poly is not sinful in theory, but that won't matter if she wants mono. Most of the time, what has to happen is she wants you more than she wants monogamy.
I don't know what you mean.
What all is she objecting to? Just poly or other stuff?
Does she 100% trust you?
Thank you for your prayers.
Last night was pretty exhausting. A lot of "well what about this" questions from our friends without wrestling with the answer I gave to the one before. Helpful in that my wife and I were able to have a conversation afterwards though. But no visible fruit to speak of for now.
Telling my wife that I will never do PM without her was not received well, because as long as she knows I believe what I believe she will not be happy and will continue to seperate herself. She wants nothing less than a full recantation. She does not accept any compromise or concession less than me sincerely saying that everything I believe was wrong. To me this is tantamount to saying I don't believe scripture. There have been a number of things I believed wrongly in scripture in the past, but these are typically things which have worthy points from both sides or arise from at least perceived unclarity in a passage. When something is so black and white as marriage, it's different. There are finer points to discuss but to recant is to call in to question the character of God. So right now, it's a stalemate between us.
I am starting to realize this situation is a divinely engineered test. It all boils down to me choosing God and His Word, or the best thing he has created for me - My wife, my only wife, whom I love. There is no way to weasel out of this, no amount of strategy or emotional tactic or relationship advice will circumvent His will. I am entirely dependent on His grace to come through for me; His Spirit to work in the heart of my wife. This is Abraham told to sacrifice Isaac all over again; it is a choice, a test. This is Adam and Eve all over again.
This is Jacob wrestling with God - and I will not let him go until he blesses me!
I pray that this is not Job. That is a fearful test. I fear God. He is so beautifully powerful, and I am so wretchedly helpless.
When I was single, I made an idol of marriage. When I got married, it was still an idol. Now He is asking me to choose between my marriage and Him. I don't want another marriage, I want Him! I want His purpose for me to be fulfilled, whatever that may be. I am clay in His hands. But I know this, He put us together, it was God that made us one. He is not done with me yet, and she is in me, so He is not done with us.
There are women in need of a husband: here am I, send me. But not my will, but yours be done.
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@rockfox she does not 100% trust me because she wants to trust that I am someone I'm not, that I believe something I do not. She is unwilling to trust me to be me.
The military is not for life, it is indentured servitude, and is finite.
-----------
I have to love her through this, and not be begrudging towards her. This test is from God and I trust him to love her, through me, through this. I won't be on here too much from now, because it hurts her to think of me dwelling on this topic. Right now I don't want to push her away, but draw her close, so whatever things I can do to show love and sacrifice, I will do of my own choosing. I know what I need to know about plural marriage for now. I still have the Word and the Spirit and I am in good hands. I am grateful for the knowledge I gleaned here and I look forward to fellowshiping with you at a retreat someday when we make it to the other side of this.
I will leave you for now with this:
Encouraged by the hardship
Of this blessed life
Knowing that God knows me
To trust me with this wife
Israel he chose
Despite her stubbornness
To love to life eternal
And bring her into bliss
I bear my father's sorrow
And see with clarity
The pain that comes in loving
Unconditionally
My joy is that I get to live
A story lived by Him
A covenant enduring
Upheld until the end
I am his image daily
And through me they can see
The holy washing through His Word
That grows our sanctity
Oh to love like Jesus
To carry home the lost
To fill the city, heaven, home
Boundless grace exhaust
One flesh! you say with ignorance
Were you not before?
He that made the two be one
Made you one for more
Unjust you shut your door
If He had settled as we do
With passive compromise
Our souls would never know His life
Nor to glory would we rise
Here we see our Potter's hands
His type, men are exact
When kindly and with love that's true
His covenant we act
Last night was pretty exhausting. A lot of "well what about this" questions from our friends without wrestling with the answer I gave to the one before. Helpful in that my wife and I were able to have a conversation afterwards though. But no visible fruit to speak of for now.
Telling my wife that I will never do PM without her was not received well, because as long as she knows I believe what I believe she will not be happy and will continue to seperate herself. She wants nothing less than a full recantation. She does not accept any compromise or concession less than me sincerely saying that everything I believe was wrong. To me this is tantamount to saying I don't believe scripture. There have been a number of things I believed wrongly in scripture in the past, but these are typically things which have worthy points from both sides or arise from at least perceived unclarity in a passage. When something is so black and white as marriage, it's different. There are finer points to discuss but to recant is to call in to question the character of God. So right now, it's a stalemate between us.
I am starting to realize this situation is a divinely engineered test. It all boils down to me choosing God and His Word, or the best thing he has created for me - My wife, my only wife, whom I love. There is no way to weasel out of this, no amount of strategy or emotional tactic or relationship advice will circumvent His will. I am entirely dependent on His grace to come through for me; His Spirit to work in the heart of my wife. This is Abraham told to sacrifice Isaac all over again; it is a choice, a test. This is Adam and Eve all over again.
This is Jacob wrestling with God - and I will not let him go until he blesses me!
I pray that this is not Job. That is a fearful test. I fear God. He is so beautifully powerful, and I am so wretchedly helpless.
When I was single, I made an idol of marriage. When I got married, it was still an idol. Now He is asking me to choose between my marriage and Him. I don't want another marriage, I want Him! I want His purpose for me to be fulfilled, whatever that may be. I am clay in His hands. But I know this, He put us together, it was God that made us one. He is not done with me yet, and she is in me, so He is not done with us.
There are women in need of a husband: here am I, send me. But not my will, but yours be done.
-------------
@rockfox she does not 100% trust me because she wants to trust that I am someone I'm not, that I believe something I do not. She is unwilling to trust me to be me.
The military is not for life, it is indentured servitude, and is finite.
-----------
I have to love her through this, and not be begrudging towards her. This test is from God and I trust him to love her, through me, through this. I won't be on here too much from now, because it hurts her to think of me dwelling on this topic. Right now I don't want to push her away, but draw her close, so whatever things I can do to show love and sacrifice, I will do of my own choosing. I know what I need to know about plural marriage for now. I still have the Word and the Spirit and I am in good hands. I am grateful for the knowledge I gleaned here and I look forward to fellowshiping with you at a retreat someday when we make it to the other side of this.
I will leave you for now with this:
Encouraged by the hardship
Of this blessed life
Knowing that God knows me
To trust me with this wife
Israel he chose
Despite her stubbornness
To love to life eternal
And bring her into bliss
I bear my father's sorrow
And see with clarity
The pain that comes in loving
Unconditionally
My joy is that I get to live
A story lived by Him
A covenant enduring
Upheld until the end
I am his image daily
And through me they can see
The holy washing through His Word
That grows our sanctity
Oh to love like Jesus
To carry home the lost
To fill the city, heaven, home
Boundless grace exhaust
One flesh! you say with ignorance
Were you not before?
He that made the two be one
Made you one for more
Unjust you shut your door
If He had settled as we do
With passive compromise
Our souls would never know His life
Nor to glory would we rise
Here we see our Potter's hands
His type, men are exact
When kindly and with love that's true
His covenant we act
If you’re smart you will never talk about this topic with her ever again until she’s brought it up three times.
No time to discuss fully but this is a marathon, not a sprint. Unless #2 is waiting in the wings and right before you, you have no reason to push the issue. Continue to study, show yourself approved, gain her trust and dependence, and then wait some more. You didn't get married the first time you saw a girl in elementary school and liked her pigtails. You had to mature (physically, sexually, and emotionally) and get ready. Same here.
Stay strong my friend. You are doing the right thing. You should never change your beliefs simply because somebody doesn't like those beliefs, regardless of who that somebody happens to be. The responsibility for the husband, is not to make his marriage work. That is a lie the church has been spouting, based on their misunderstanding of Scripture. His responsibility is to never be the one to abandon his wife, and to always love her, regardless of how she treats him, with the sole exception, being fornication. Having said that, none of us want our marriages to fail, nor do we want the ensuing hardship that is inevitable should it ever come to that, especially for those of us who have children. Hold to the truth, ignore anyone who tries to lay the blame on you for the outcome, do the best you can to show your wife the love that you have for her, and leave everything in God's hands.
I found that arguing in the online community, helped tremendously when it came to sitting down with church friends and pastoral staff. The more opportunities you have to talk with people, like you did the other night, especially when you are fully prepared to deal with their objections, the more you will leave them speechless, and that cannot be a bad thing. Paul recommended just that to Titus. Sooner or later, you will encounter a soft target that will be receptive to the truth. This is precisely what many of the fore-runners of this movement have done. I myself was not totally convinced, until I saw some of the online debates, and how poor the arguments were on the part of those who don't really understand this issue. When I saw how they constantly reverted to refuted arguments, I was convinced. Stay strong my friend. Stay strong!
I found that arguing in the online community, helped tremendously when it came to sitting down with church friends and pastoral staff. The more opportunities you have to talk with people, like you did the other night, especially when you are fully prepared to deal with their objections, the more you will leave them speechless, and that cannot be a bad thing. Paul recommended just that to Titus. Sooner or later, you will encounter a soft target that will be receptive to the truth. This is precisely what many of the fore-runners of this movement have done. I myself was not totally convinced, until I saw some of the online debates, and how poor the arguments were on the part of those who don't really understand this issue. When I saw how they constantly reverted to refuted arguments, I was convinced. Stay strong my friend. Stay strong!
I've never been in favor of the argument/debate tactic, but what @Daniel DeLuca says here is important. As you have opportunity to share, make sure it's in front of your wife, or able to be shared with her in some way. As she sees your heart and study on the matter, the more she will become the one who is speechless.
A great deal of cud to chew from your brothers here, @tps26. Forgive yourself if your brain wants to spring a leak attempting to hold all of it in place in your mind at the same time, as some of the advice conflicts with some of the other advice -- which is not to say that any of it is bad advice. The conclusion is that more than one path has the potential to lead to success.
I just have three things to add:
1. Be patient. Not to denigrate anything written by anyone else, but @Mojo's wisdom is the wisdomiest. Trying to rush yourself is a mistake, and trying to rush your wife is mistakier.
2. Keep in mind what many men here have already learned: if you truly devote yourself to being the true I'm-100%-responsible-for-EVERYTHING-that-happens-in-my-family leader of your household, you will discover that the positive ramifications of doing so will make your life so much more wonderful that, while you may still yearn to have a plural family, if you never do so you will also never be sorry that learning about the validity of polygamy led you to discover the value of being a true patriarch.
3. Be patient. Do not be in a hurry. Give yourself permission to internally fantasize to your heart's content about all of the different wonderfulnesses you might experience if you were to be the husband of two wives, but simply surrender yourself to God's Will. He knows what you want, and He wants you to have peace, love and joy in your life. He also wants you to walk in His paths and to know that He loves you. Remember that He only puts in our laps what He knows we can handle. The corollary to that is that He likely withholds certain things from our laps when He knows we're not yet ready to handle them.
Yes, I know: #s 1 and 3 are the same thing, but it deserves to be repeated.
I just have three things to add:
1. Be patient. Not to denigrate anything written by anyone else, but @Mojo's wisdom is the wisdomiest. Trying to rush yourself is a mistake, and trying to rush your wife is mistakier.
2. Keep in mind what many men here have already learned: if you truly devote yourself to being the true I'm-100%-responsible-for-EVERYTHING-that-happens-in-my-family leader of your household, you will discover that the positive ramifications of doing so will make your life so much more wonderful that, while you may still yearn to have a plural family, if you never do so you will also never be sorry that learning about the validity of polygamy led you to discover the value of being a true patriarch.
3. Be patient. Do not be in a hurry. Give yourself permission to internally fantasize to your heart's content about all of the different wonderfulnesses you might experience if you were to be the husband of two wives, but simply surrender yourself to God's Will. He knows what you want, and He wants you to have peace, love and joy in your life. He also wants you to walk in His paths and to know that He loves you. Remember that He only puts in our laps what He knows we can handle. The corollary to that is that He likely withholds certain things from our laps when He knows we're not yet ready to handle them.
Yes, I know: #s 1 and 3 are the same thing, but it deserves to be repeated.
Well said. This is how I have it worked out in my brain at this point. How can I expect my wife to follow me somewhere, no matter how Biblical or God-honoring that somewhere may be, if I haven't gained her complete trust that she will always be my wife and have all the benefits that come with the covering ministry of husbanding?
We've seen this happen before here. I see this as a power play. She wants your full submission to her as spiritual leader. Complete capitulation.
But I'd be curious if other men who've experienced that, and come out the other side successfully, have a different explanation.
But if you want to preserve your marriage you have to fight to regain control. You can't allow her to separate herself. I agree with others about going slow on the poly thing, but if she is right now acting to harden her heart against you and withhold herself physically and/or emotionally, the marriage itself doesn't have much time left.
And Maverick is right, even if poly is sinful, she has no grounds Biblically to break covenant with you over your theological belief on the matter; much less dictate to you your beliefs.
I agree. What I meant by that is so long as you're in the military, your life is not your own.
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This I totally agree with and needs to be reinforced over and over. If a wife is genuinely convinced you are wrong, 1 Peter 3:1-6 specifically addresses how she is to respond, and it doesn't even hint at withholding sex to get you to change your beliefs! Actually, v:1 would give clear grounds to refute such ideas. The relationship between a man and his wife doesn't change in any of the requirements God has given to either party with the suggestion of nor the practice of polygyny. The divinely established union of a man and woman; whether that be first, second, third or more, is not to be broken but proactively maintained to the glory of God.
In my case, I was quite willing to go to marriage counseling, but I told her that I was willing to talk with someone who is against polygamy, if we also have counseling with someone who is at least neutral on that topic. That may seem like capitulation to her wishes, but I perceived it as a means to become a better husband, which is not a bad thing, especially for someone who wants to eventually have a second wife, if he does not take care of the first wife well, then what's the point! It exposed some areas that I needed improvement on, and helped me show her how much I love her, and I know she appreciates that. In addition, I was prepared well enough to answer the antagonist arguments, and I planted a seed in someone else, who had never been exposed to the truth about biblical marriage.
In my case, I was quite willing to go to marriage counseling, but I told her that I was willing to talk with someone who is against polygamy, if we also have counseling with someone who is at least neutral on that topic. That may seem like capitulation to her wishes, but I perceived it as a means to become a better husband, which is not a bad thing, especially for someone who wants to eventually have a second wife, if he does not take care of the first wife well, then what's the point! It exposed some areas that I needed improvement on, and helped me show her how much I love her, and I know she appreciates that. In addition, I was prepared well enough to answer the antagonist arguments, and I planted a seed in someone else, who had never been exposed to the truth about biblical marriage.
That's not a bad strategy. I'd see that more as compromise than capitulation. But I was talking about the 'if you don't recant polygamy and change your belief I'm leaving you' part and what motivates it.
I have really appreciated everything you all have had to say, and your prayers. God is moving in powerful ways.
Everything changed last night. My wife said "I love you" again, she initiated and resumed physical contact again. She would like to take a 3 month break from discussing PM, work on our marriage to include counseling, and then set up a specific date to hear me out and talk about this, which will probably be the first time she will really hear my thoughts on this.
I am aware that even 3 months may be too soon, so I will make sure she is truly ready before we broach the topic again. ( @The Revolting Man, her brining it up 3 times seems like a reasonable metric).
This must be from the Holy Spirit though, I don't think I have ever seen such an abrupt change in attitude and demeanor from her or anyone. God wants our absolute submission to him. Sometimes it takes a crisis moment to rip us from our own will. I will soberly continue to submit to him in this. He is in control.
@Daniel DeLuca, I am a little hesitant on the counseling thing too and I think it will all depend on the person. If they are biblically ignorant it will be fruitless. I have no issues taking sage advice from someone who is wise, has been around the block, and has achieved unity in their marriage, but I don't need someone trying to further assimilate my wife into greco-roman thinking.
I think we will be better postured to plant seeds when both my wife and I are of one heart and mind on this. Otherwise, it is just not a priority of mine until we are working as a team. Until then, I will continue washing her with the word myself, that's my responsibility and not anothers.
@frederick, I had just been thinking the same thing about 1st Peter 3 the day before yesterday. That's a great point.
Everything changed last night. My wife said "I love you" again, she initiated and resumed physical contact again. She would like to take a 3 month break from discussing PM, work on our marriage to include counseling, and then set up a specific date to hear me out and talk about this, which will probably be the first time she will really hear my thoughts on this.
I am aware that even 3 months may be too soon, so I will make sure she is truly ready before we broach the topic again. ( @The Revolting Man, her brining it up 3 times seems like a reasonable metric).
This must be from the Holy Spirit though, I don't think I have ever seen such an abrupt change in attitude and demeanor from her or anyone. God wants our absolute submission to him. Sometimes it takes a crisis moment to rip us from our own will. I will soberly continue to submit to him in this. He is in control.
@Daniel DeLuca, I am a little hesitant on the counseling thing too and I think it will all depend on the person. If they are biblically ignorant it will be fruitless. I have no issues taking sage advice from someone who is wise, has been around the block, and has achieved unity in their marriage, but I don't need someone trying to further assimilate my wife into greco-roman thinking.
I think we will be better postured to plant seeds when both my wife and I are of one heart and mind on this. Otherwise, it is just not a priority of mine until we are working as a team. Until then, I will continue washing her with the word myself, that's my responsibility and not anothers.
@frederick, I had just been thinking the same thing about 1st Peter 3 the day before yesterday. That's a great point.
I'd say agree to the three months, then wait for her to bring it up. When she does, tell her you're still not discussing it as she's not ready for that discussion yet, you'll bring it up when you think that she is. Give her even longer than she expected without having to discuss it. Become the one holding back the discussion, not pushing it.
Become the one in charge of the whole conversation.