Prayer and Practical Help

[andrew]

One of our number, @EternalDreamer, is going through the chaos of watching his first wife completely turn her back on God and her husband, reneging on commitments she made to ED earlier and denying things she previously said she had heard from God. She has begun the process of lawyering up for separation and divorce.

The nature of their relationship is/was that she as a physician was the principal breadwinner, and he was the stay-at-home dad (they have a very young son). Consequently, she will be able to afford more and better legal representation than ED will. Unless we step up to help.

ED has started a gofundme page and is asking for our help. Members of this group have discussed (several times) the idea of starting some kind of legal defense fund, and while this is a different business model, this accomplishes the same objective if enough people are willing to participate. (It might actually be a better approach to the problem of pooling our resources for defense; guess we'll see....)

Please go to ED's gofundme page and do what you can. And please pray for ED and all the individuals involved (or involving themselves) in this situation, and specifically for wisdom and courage and support for ED.

 

[Shadowjak's Dancer]

As for the legal team idea, I know that there are legal insurance policies that groups can get, such as those who carry concealed. Perhaps a themed policy that individuals could subscribe to?

 

[Joleneakamama]

I understand what you're saying @andrew about helping in a practical way.....and money for lawyers or other things may be what E.D. needs right now.

The real enemy is fear....the real victory is in faith.....and win lose or draw our lives are the real proof of our testimony.

Hubby and I recently got a up close look at the justice system. As a pro se litigant he (with my help typing) brought a suit against two deputies.....and they settled.

God gave us a good judge, a perfect case, and we went through it all because we believed He wanted us to.

Even after all that....trusting YHWH for justice is infinitely better in our experience.

Pro se get a lot more wiggle room, and even the judge has to kinda look out for you......AND you don't have to worry about your lawyer making deals over lunch to NOT do what is in your best interest.
I have seen lawyers sell people out. They get paid win or lose usually.

No offense meant to good people who are lawyers....I just know that lawyers aren't all good people.

 

[The Revolting Man]

We will be looking for wiggle room to give to this.

 

[Patricia C]

My heart hurts for everyone involved. @EternalDreamer I am praying for you and your situation. I don't know the in's and outs of what is going on but I do know divorce is tough!. I will pray your wife comes to her senses before things can't be undone or unsaid. Your son must be considered in all of this. He needs both of you, united!
If I have the extra funds to share I will. Please keep looking to the Father allow His Grace and Mercy to flow freely in all you do. I am praying for you brother

 

[DeathIsNotTheEnd]

Thank you all

I do not know exactly how this will go. I have been studying separation and adultery and divorce and such legally. It seems that what my wife wants is, essentially, to bring as many heavy firearms to bear against me as she can in order to shame and intimidate me and my second into giving in to her demands. She has phrased it as such As has her father, who I suspect is mostly responsible for it.

A part of me kind of wants to start posting all of her responses here on the forums, but in case she does ever repent I dont want to shame her. I just wish you all could see how hard I am trying and how coldly she is responding

 

[rockfox]

@EternalDreamer

I have frequently heard from men (who are the primary breadwinner to a SAHM) that they had to foot the bill for their wife's legal fees. That should likewise be true for you in the reverse. And there is a good chance she could owe you spousal support during the divorce and maybe even alimony afterwards. But a lawyer can tell you for sure on all that and how to go about it.

Don't be afraid to call and talk to various lawyers. They'll usually spend 10 minutes or so on the phone with you giving you a basic rundown of the process, what will happen, the possible outcomes and what they'd do. Talk to enough of them and you'll start to get a feel for which are good and which aren't. Find an attack dog with a track record helping men with good results.

And keep records of all conversations with lawyers and your wife. If you're still caring for your son, keep a log of your activity thereof to document your status as the primary care provider. A 6 month old is not that far from weaning anyway; will be by the time divorce proceedings finish. And since she works she is pumping more than breastfeeding anyway.

 

[PeteR]

@EternalDreamer praying that she come to her senses and that Abba is honored and glorified, inspite of the apparent 'ugly.'

A thought on lawyers... pray for great wisdom and Abba's guidance in the selection and ask Him to lead you to a female who is willing to defend Biblical marriage (whether she agrees or not). You will have more sympathy from the court if a woman is defending rather than the world's thought on a man defending a polygamist.... just a thought.

 

[Frank S]

Though I haven't stood in your shoes, I advise telling the truth to your lawyer. When (not if) all the little details are dragged out in court (which they will be), that will only raise the question with your lawyer "Why didn't you tell me this before?". In addition, if you want Him who is the Truth to be on your side, "truth" must be the currency you always deal in. I don't mean you have to tell all you know, but definitely not make things out to be other than they really are.

 

[PeteR]

Yeah I just called a firm today and set up an appointment for Tuesday. It is a firm that specializes in supporting men through it. My appointment is with a female lawyer named Natalie.

Natalie means 'birthday of the Lord' and is related to 'natal' meaning 'birth.'

Interesting....

 

[PeteR]

@EternalDreamer , I might also recommend that you have some material articulating your position for her (if she's the one) to educate herself. Ie We want for our Sisters what We want for ourselves by Patricia Dixon-Spear. It is an articulate, well researched presentation of polygyny by a liberal feminist female... yes, aimed at black Americans, but is a great source. The Great Omission by Clyde Pilkington, Jr is a good book articulating the case for from a solid Christian perspective. Etc... you need to demonstrate with sound research and exegesis that this is not simple adultery lust, because that's where the other side will try to take it.

In one sense, you are offering some law firm a really unique opportunity to establish case law.... praying that this bad situation will yeild some good.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Though I haven't stood in your shoes, I advise telling the truth to your lawyer. When (not if) all the little details are dragged out in court (which they will be), that will only raise the question with your lawyer "Why didn't you tell me this before?". In addition, if you want Him who is the Truth to be on your side, "truth" must be the currency you always deal in. I don't mean you have to tell all you know, but definitely not make things out to be other than they really are.

This is very true. @EternalDreamer
My hubby could have never prevailed in his case had he not been telling the truth.

Liars have too much to try to cover up....and too many versions to remember.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Yeah I just called a firm today and set up an appointment for Tuesday. It is a firm that specializes in supporting men through it. My appointment is with a female lawyer named Natalie. Obviously I have no idea how she views poly or anything.

I am trying to determine how to approach this with her:

Should I present it as an alternative lifestyle that the 3 of us were party to with full knowledge and one person is now acting vindictive? Or do I deny any existence of it?

Treat it like a subset of polyamory which has been extensively litigated and gotten the seal of approval. Your wife was on board. She's of legal age, she consented and you didn't coerce her. It seems like you're on solid ground. Here's hoping you get alimony!

 

[Joleneakamama]

Treat it like a subset of polyamory which has been extensively litigated and gotten the seal of approval. Your wife was on board. She's of legal age, she consented and you didn't coerce her. It seems like you're on solid ground. Here's hoping you get alimony!

Lol! When women want to be feminists....and want 'equality' it is kinda fitting when they get equal grief!
Put the shoe on the other foot and most would decide they wanted it put back where it's supposed to be!

 

[Asforme&myhouse]

@EternalDreamer

I have frequently heard from men (who are the primary breadwinner to a SAHM) that they had to foot the bill for their wife's legal fees. That should likewise be true for you in the reverse. And there is a good chance she could owe you spousal support during the divorce and maybe even alimony afterwards. But a lawyer can tell you for sure on all that and how to go about it.

Don't be afraid to call and talk to various lawyers. They'll usually spend 10 minutes or so on the phone with you giving you a basic rundown of the process, what will happen, the possible outcomes and what they'd do. Talk to enough of them and you'll start to get a feel for which are good and which aren't. Find an attack dog with a track record helping men with good results.

And keep records of all conversations with lawyers and your wife. If you're still caring for your son, keep a log of your activity thereof to document your status as the primary care provider. A 6 month old is not that far from weaning anyway; will be by the time divorce proceedings finish. And since she works she is pumping more than breastfeeding anyway.

As someone who has been through the mill, I will tell you @EternalDreamer, this is good advice.

 

[DeathIsNotTheEnd]

Treat it like a subset of polyamory which has been extensively litigated and gotten the seal of approval. Your wife was on board. She's of legal age, she consented and you didn't coerce her. It seems like you're on solid ground. Here's hoping you get alimony!

Zec, that would be handy info to have to bring to my appointment. What do you mean by extensively litigated and a seal of approval?

 

[cnystrom]

... as she can in order to shame and intimidate me and my second into giving in to her demands.

What are her specific demands if you do not mind me asking?

 

[steve]

It appears that she wants your signature on a piece of paper so that she can hold it over you for the rest of your life. It will serve as a defacto divorce every time you look sideways at any other female.

 

[PeteR]

You are suggesting that for the lawyer Natalie?

Im not sure if you are saying I should buy those books and hand them to her or just to write up a summary from them?

Any lawyer you hire will need to be well informed and have credible resources, scholarly, even, to formulate their defense and help them articulate your position. Whoever your attorney is will be better prepared to present your side if they see/hear it from more than just your Scripture references. They need up be armed as if polygyny itself is on trial as I assume it will be the primary spear presented by the other side...

 

[The Revolting Man]

Zec, that would be handy info to have to bring to my appointment. What do you mean by extensively litigated and a seal of approval?

Polyamorous relationships have been through the courts many times already. It's been heavily ruled that it can't affect visitation and the like. It's not going to give you a magical win but you don't have to go slinking around like a whipped dog who's ashamed of yourself. You wanted to pursue a perfectly legal lifestyle and you thought your wife was onboard. I don't think I would try to make a big stand on the Biblical stance on marriage. The court doesn't care. You just have to give them a fact set that let's them feel like they can keep you in your child's life. Nothing else matters now.