Prospects for A Successful Polygamous Marriage?

[rockfox]

I feel drawn to polygamy. As I try to learn more I've been reading through the Real People's Stories and I must admit, I'm not encouraged about the prospect of successful polygamy.

I have a great marriage. On the one hand, my success there (and it didn't happen without intention or hard work) would indicate potential for the ability to add another wife successfully. On the other hand, why ruin a good thing if polygamy is fraught with failure?

Here's my basic advice for people considering plural marriage: don't do it. Just don't.

Of course I don't mean that across the board. There are exceptions. But in my experience so far, there are few.

I take it from this that most fail, and messily. Doesn't sound like a good thing. And yet,

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing And obtains favor from the LORD." - Prov 18:22

So I am left wondering, what are the prospects for a successful polygamous marriage? How often does it go well? Where are the good examples to learn from?

The nature of people is everyone thinks they are surely the exception and will succeed; even when they very apparently are not. But how is one to objectively know they really are an exception? Or is that an overcautious approach?

Now don't mistake this for a 'polygamy is wrong because some polygamous relationships fail'. Or a MGTOW thing. Rather, I tend to take a system's view of things, evaluate risk and consider the million different ways something could go wrong. Which can be rather negative, so I am trying to gain a balanced perspective.

[mods: I wasn't sure which forum to put this in, feel free to move as appropriate.]

 

[mystic]

I suggest a search of this site for

• occurrences of the word "helpers"
• in posts by Andrew.

 

[rustywest4]

I'm pretty sure @andrew is eventually publishing the ultimate "guide to successful plural marriage" of all time! :bible:

In fact I seem to remember not too long ago the BF family revisited the compilation of concepts and issues needing to be incorporated in that guide!?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Remember that a large portion of monogamous marriages fail and I don't think any of us would be surprised at how many attempts at celibacy disintegrate.

It's hard and fraught with peril and should definitely be approached with caution and trepidation but we have the examples before us that prove it is doable.

 

[frederick]

I have a great marriage. On the one hand, my success there (and it didn't happen without intention or hard work) would indicate potential for the ability to add another wife successfully. On the other hand, why ruin a good thing if polygamy is fraught with failure?

Hey @rockfox, congratulations for doing the hard work and now seeing the results of it in your great marriage. But if I look at the failure stats for monogamy-only marriages in the USA, I'd be asking the same questions you've asked regarding poly marriages. I'm wondering if you put just as much hard work into another marriage, might you not have just as much success and a great marriage(?)

 

[aineo]

It seems to me that many enter polygynous marriages too quickly and without fully understanding the cost. I don’t speak from experience, but it doesn’t seem easy. Neither is a monogamous marriage, but we are used to hearing about the challenges with a monogamous marriage. I think counseling with those who have succeeded with polygyny is a key, and I think recognizing the effort it takes going into it before taking on a second wife is key too. Again, no practical experience here, so take it for what it’s worth.

 

[Man@Home]

I feel drawn to polygamy. As I try to learn more I've been reading through the Real People's Stories and I must admit, I'm not encouraged about the prospect of successful polygamy.

Exactly the same feeling here. Every personal blog both me and my wife read on the internet on this subject describe happy stories in the beginning followed with breakups etc within a certain period of time. We really hope to see the positive examples. Where are these?

It seems to me that many enter polygynous marriages too quickly and without fully understanding the cost.

Certainly there is a relation here. We also noticed that it takes much more longer for courtship of the first wive compared with the successive wive(s).

And yes, would be handy to have the ultimate handbook available... Can I pre-order one?

 

[andrew]

So I am left wondering, what are the prospects for a successful polygamous marriage? How often does it go well? Where are the good examples to learn from?

The odds are definitely not 'ever in your favor', so as a matter of statistics most of us would say "run, don't walk, to the nearest exit". Your prospects are slim, and it doesn't go well very often.

As for examples, around here Nathan, Ron, and I are survivors that have made ourselves available to try to help others. There are other plural families here on site or that come to retreats that are succeeding so far, but for many such families there are privacy/security issues (on top of any logistical issues) that limit their ability to be available for families that need help. You won't see Nathan or Ron much on the forum, and we generally recommend for a whole rack of reasons that if you're serious about pursuing plural marriage that you start attending retreats as time and resources permit. If that's just not an option, there's always phone and Skype.

We (my family and I) also have entertained individuals or couples with questions at our home to answer questions and do a sort of show-and-tell just by being ourselves. I sometimes call it 'observing polygamists in their natural habitat', but if a picture is worth a thousand words, then you get the idea. I'm not sure how many words a weekend with the Amelangs is worth, but a big part of the fear of moving forward, especially for the women, eSPECially for first wives, is fear of the unknown, so getting a mental picture can be very helpful on an emotional level.

Ron and Nathan have also entertained individuals and families, but various health and life issues have limited that over the past year or two; retreats are the main focus for meatspace interaction for all of us. And don't forget phone and Skype....

I suggest a search of this site for

• occurrences of the word "helpers"
• in posts by Andrew.

I'm pretty sure @andrew is eventually publishing the ultimate "guide to successful plural marriage" of all time! :bible:

In fact I seem to remember not too long ago the BF family revisited the compilation of concepts and issues needing to be incorporated in that guide!?

And yes, would be handy to have the ultimate handbook available... Can I pre-order one?

mystic's advice goes to why there may never be a book. My general advice to men is: Focus very hard on the work you're doing for God's kingdom, and trust God to provide for you the number of helpers you need to accomplish your mission. "Seek ye first..." and all that.

At this point there's just not enough data to do any useful analysis. More like a lot of case studies that can be used to illustrate points. (Hmmm, maybe I need to write a manual that reads like a law school text book. There's an idea....)

Each of the families that is making it has a unique story to tell, and I'm sure at some point we'll be able to pull together some evidence-based general principles, but right now the main general principles are to just do all the stuff the New Testament says about following Christ. It is eye-opening and life-changing to go from the posture of being a "Christian" in a "Christian culture" to being a follower of Christ in a culture that is hostile to the bible's fundamental teaching on marriage and the roles of men and women and the purpose of God in the creation of each (or even what biology and evolutionary psychology have to tell us about the different makeups of men and women, if what the bible actually says isn't that important). It's weird being an outsider, and it changes the way you live out a lot of the NT.

@rockfox, feel free to PM me (including getting my phone number) if this gets too personal, but what would you say is drawing you to plural marriage? In what way do you hear yourself being called to this, or in what way do you think having more wives would help you to fulfill your calling?

 

[Ginny]

Hi rockfox,

So I am left wondering, what are the prospects for a successful polygamous marriage? How often does it go well? Where are the good examples to learn from?

I think the fact that you are asking such excellent questions already puts you in the minority. I don't know how often it goes well. For those who jump the gun and just "go for it" without extensive forethought (and LOTS of patience and love for their first wife) then I'd say it seldom goes well. As far as good examples to learn from, I'm honored to know of a few plural families who seem to have the more difficult years of transition behind them. They all have such different stories and overall, they live quiet lives, content to grow together without telling everyone else that they have "found the way to do plural marriage". Honestly not sure how to get you in touch with all of them but I do know our family is open to talking with you and your wife or whomever about how we make it work.

The nature of people is everyone thinks they are surely the exception and will succeed; even when they very apparently are not. But how is one to objectively know they really are an exception? Or is that an overcautious approach?

I get what you mean and I don't think that is an overcautious approach. That quote you mentioned came from a post I wrote at a time when I felt very discouraged by how often plural families seemed to "fail". Since then, I've discovered a few "tells" that might indicate possible success in plural marriage.

Vision. The man must have a clear vision of what he is called to do. Women are excellent helpers but if the motivation to add another wife is to try plural marriage because they believe God approves of it, then what are they helping you to do? So you have more than one wife. So what? What do you do as a family to have a positive impact on God's kingdom? Living this lifestyle is less about the sex and your family and more about the work you do together. For me, that's a big "duh" but you'd be surprised how many people out there are ready to be poster children for "the cause" of plural marriage without having ANY vision for their life or family. If your vision is solid and you know who you are, where you are going, what you are called to do, and what resources you need to do that thing, then that's a good foundation for taking responsibility for another woman.

Strong First Marriage. I've said this at least a thousand times in the last four years but choosing to believe that God is okay with (and even blesses) plural marriage is a unique, refining process all on its own. It opens doors and pushes buttons and causes some of us to rethink everything we were taught about what it means to be a wife and Christian woman. It unlocks doors to fears and doubts that might never be opened without this truth. We have to look at things in our hearts that are not as pretty as we would like them to be. HOW we deal with them depends on the woman and the safe place her man provides to do this. So, if a man with a strong vision for his calling (please remember that "plural marriage" is not a calling in itself) believes that plural marriage is a truth worth exploring, then a good test of a marriage he thinks is strong is to tell his wife and see how that goes. THIS DOES NOT WORK WELL IF THE HUSBAND IS ALREADY ENGAGED IN TALKS WITH ANOTHER WOMAN. There are steps and layers to the process that may not guaranty success but there are many ways that instantly sabotage it. Moving forward without vision and without taking the time to make sure your wife trusts you completely and wants to serve the vision you have for your life and your family is a recipe for failure.

Count the Cost. Do you like going to corporate church? Do you enjoy the current relationships you have with close family and friends? Do you have kids? Do they like the friends they have? Would your job be affected by your marriage status? Depending on how you move forward with publicizing your beliefs about plural marriage, you must be able to think ahead about how people might react to it. Adding another wife will affect more than just you and your wife. As you may have already discovered, plural marriage is not generally accepted by um...well...a lot of people. You will make friends and enemies of all beliefs and faiths and walks of life. It's not all horrible. It's a different kind of refining process where you discover who your real friends are and you make some new friends along the way (I highly recommend you attend at least the Summer retreat to see what I mean). It's bittersweet but the bottom line is that it does have its costs. If God leads you to plural marriage and your wife is willing to follow you, then those costs might not seem so bad in the long run.

This is a short, working list for me based on some observations I've made over the years. It might change and grow as we spend more time with more families but for now, I find these three things to be a good indicator of possible success in plural marriage. I wish you all the best as you move and grow in God's truth.

Blessings,
Ginny

 

[rockfox]

Thank you all for your responses so far.

Hey @rockfoxBut if I look at the failure stats for monogamy-only marriages in the USA, I'd be asking the same questions you've asked regarding poly marriages. I'm wondering if you put just as much hard work into another marriage, might you not have just as much success and a great marriage(?)

Yes I am well aware of the odds in monogamous marriage, as well as what that statistically means for polygamy. I'll probably post on that a bit later. But the part I can't decipher mathematically is what effect past success has.

Maybe I was just lucky? Maybe I hadn't passed one of the major divorce triggering events yet in life? Those are both factors.

That quote you mentioned came from a post I wrote at a time when I felt very discouraged by how often plural families seemed to "fail".

I could tell, so I figured that maybe prospects weren't as bad as it seemed upon reading that. But I still appreciate the candor and real life, gut wrenching in context perspective. Thank you for sharing your lessons learned!

 

[rustywest4]

Thank you so very much @Ginny ... wow ... thank you for your encouragement and your wisdom! Bless you sister!

 

[andrew]

Maybe I was just lucky? Maybe I hadn't passed one of the major divorce triggering events yet in life? Those are both factors.

First, luck is probably not the explanation, but not being tested might be. Again, don't get too personal in public, but what major events have you been through that indicate the stability and robustness of your marriage? Devotion to first wife and success with that relationship is definitely the major contributor to success in subsequent relationships. On the other hand, there is no problem in the first relationship that a second wife is going to solve....

Beyond that, it's going to be hard to get any mathematical certainty until we get a lot more data, partly for the reason Ginny mentioned: You just don't know what sorts of problems you or your wife are going to have with this until you're in it. It's not like going from throwing one orange up and down to juggling two oranges, and from there to three, etc. It might be like that if we were in a sympathetic culture in an alternate universe in which women were brought up to see that lifestyle as desirable and a marker of family wealth and success. But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride, right?

In the world we live in, many on both the conservative/religious and liberal/secular ends of the spectrum find this lifestyle repugnant to their core values, so adding a second wife is more like going from throwing an orange up and catching it to juggling two flaming torches or running chainsaws. You just count the cost, check your certainty that this is what God wants you to be doing, and go for it.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Ginny wrote the first chapter of the manual!

Look, a desire is not necessarily a call too. Most men are never going to be able to make this happen let alone work. Most of us just aren't high status enough. I would love to have wives and children and found a patriarchal dynasty that lasts till the second coming. I'm not a great husband and father to the wife and children I have. I certainly haven't proven to be able to provide for any more than I have.

For most of us our job is to make our monogamous marriages Godly and pave the way for our sons to have an easier time of it than we do. And frankly that's as much as most of us can handle.

I've seen a lot of men lose hope and drop the vision when the second wife never materializes and that just shows that they never accepted the truth that a Biblical family isn't only one with multiple wives.

 

[rockfox]

First, luck is probably not the explanation, but not being tested might be. Again, don't get too personal in public, but what major events have you been through that indicate the stability and robustness of your marriage?

By way of one personal example, we have been through the tough times of sickness, job loss and financial struggle which I've seen take down many marriages, often over far less trouble than we endured.

But even more than that, we have grown closer through it as I guided my wife during those times, working to bring us to a more mature understanding of Christian marriage and attitude. Our relationship has strengthened with time, not degraded. In other words, we didn't just 'weather the storm' and somehow come out the other side; but I see know how I acted to led us through that, avoiding the shoals which have wrecked many others. And I also see the qualities about my wife which helped make that happen.

Now there was a time before that when I thought we had the perfect marriage and I the perfect wife. I was wrong, it was just untested and I had her on a pedestal. It was through the refiners fire we were able to achieve a more Godly marriage.

Now is the fire necessary for a strong marriage? Maybe not. But it proves it. And it probably also helped me see the cracks in our own while building in me the skills necessary for leading a strong marriage.

Now what are some of the general divorce triggering events? Sickness. Financial strife. Death of a child. Infertility. Power struggle. There is also the 3 and the 7 year itch. It has also been observed that women often eject once the last child has gotten out of diapers. And then there is also the mid-life crisis.

To put it in a more obvious form: the guy who says he's a great husband with the perfect marriage and wife, but has only been married 2 years, is likely in the honeymoon phase and quite simply hasn't lived enough life to have tested the relationship.

 

[Mojo]

Remember that a large portion of monogamous marriages fail and I don't think any of us would be surprised at how many attempts at celibacy disintegrate.

It's hard and fraught with peril and should definitely be approached with caution and trepidation but we have the examples before us that prove it is doable.

Whoa! We have the same brain. I was just about to write that exact same paragraph after reading the OP. You capsulized my thoughts.


What he said Rock.

 

[Mojo]

I've seen a lot of men lose hope and drop the vision when the second wife never materializes and that just shows that they never accepted the truth that a Biblical family isn't only one with multiple wives.

Ditto.

 

[rustywest4]

Double Ditto @ZecAustin @Mojo
... trying to be a good steward of what God has blessed me with already... an amazing Godly wife and many lively monkeys!

 

[andrew]

Guys, the "manual" is Experiencing God. Do that 13-week study and then come back and let me know what else you need to know.

Ginny essayed an answer to two specific questions posed by rockfox, and while her answer was textbook perfect in terms of general advice, I have to point out two things: First, the answer (know your calling, love your wife, count the cost) is basic Christian discipleship (as are most of the things we're supposed to do that are really important). Second, pretty much everybody that gets into this and fails thought they understood what God wanted them to do, thought their first wife could handle it, and thought they could afford the cost. rockfox was asking "how do I know?...".

The deeper magic here, rockfox, is that you don't know; I would argue that you can't know. The essence of adventure is risk. You need to be prepared to pivot (which assumes a certain amount of humility), you need to have a certain amount of resilience in the face of failure (and you will fail along the way), and you need to have the persistence that compels you to try, try again, and never, ever give up (take another look at my tagline).

Too much to unpack tonight, but I'll have more to say about this at upcoming retreats, as well as here as time permits. God is raising up a certain kind of man to this work. We adapt, improvise, and overcome. We are risk takers and innovators. We are entrepreneurs, if you will (if you have started a business or two, you know what I'm talking about).

In Christ, we are more than conquerors. Focus on the leading of the Spirit. And check out that Experiencing God study....

 

[Mojo]

We adapt, improvise, and overcome.

The mark of a great leader is not the precise plans they lay out (though most good leaders are impeccable planners/visionaries).

Leadership rests on what you do when the "oh snap!" moments come. Plan B is a real thing. Do you have one? If not, are you good at coming up with one on the fly? Are you the stay calm guy, or the "what the heck do we do?" guy?

Ulysses Grant may have not been the greatest tactician compared to Lee, but Grant lived by the motto of "jus getter done".

I hope I made sense. It's late

 

[frederick]

there is no problem in the first relationship that a second wife is going to solve....

Something I've experienced with being blessed with a second wife; it has shown up some things needing scrutiny in the first marriage/wife situation. Without getting too personal but adding a second wife has made a noticeable difference to the frequency of sex with the first wife....