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Questions and wonderings...

porkchop

Member
I've been reading this forum for several weeks and have a few questions,if I may....
1 It seems from my reading on this forum that the gentlemen seem to be very similar to most churches I've ever attended in that they appear to be saying, "God has 'shown' me a new way and I am convinced that I'm right (I've heard that in several churches over the years). "Wife you either get with the program and follow me whether or not you are ok with it; advanced in your understanding of God as I am; as mature in your walk with God as I think I am; and no matter what, if you don't 'submit and follow' you can leave and I'll call you rebellious and unsaved". This seems soo very harsh to me. I hope I'm just mis-reading most everyone. Am I? Because I'm wondering if you normally impose a 'time period' for a wife to 'get onboard' before you haul in another wife or what.

2 I'm wondering where is the patience, love, kindness and forbearance that one would expect even from a casual friend, let-a-lone a spouse. I'm either misreading most everything or maybe I just don't get it. I must say that reading most postings on this forum is freaking me out a bit. I don't see much in the line of the men saying 'We are a team and I'll never do anything that would distress you to the point of leaving'.

Am I just not getting it?
 
I'm also wondering why a second wife would move forward to a marriage knowing that it is breaking someone elses heart. I wonder a lot about that.
 
Donnag,
There is a place for all those things. A lot depends on the relationship that has previously been experienced between the hubby and the wife. It is never a sin to be kind, but there are times when women use the "kindness and understanding" of a husband to manipulate him into doing things her way. For instance, a wife who agrees that it is okay but isn't ready. And never is ready. Or the wife that wants to help pick the new wife but is so picky that no one ever makes the cut, leaving her to supportively "follow" her husband's lead while getting her own way. Then there is the wife who uses guilt to get him to promise never to marry another woman. Then there is the wife who turns the whole world against hubby in order to get him to comply with the world. These things seem extreme, but I have seen all of them in action. What about the wife who hears the same message from God but denies it?

Of course, in a perfect world, a husband will work with wife1 and they will study the scriptures and she will come to a solid understanding of what God's will is. And many of the men on this board have done this and are still doing it. And then there are men and women who let their emotions get the better of them. And there are first wives who say it is all okay, and then after hubby has made a committment to the new woman, she decides that she doesn't really want it after all.

So each husband MUST make a plan for himself. He must follow what he believes to be God's leading. He must prepare wife1 as best he can and trust God to do the rest.

None of it is easy. Childbirth isn't easy. I knew a young woman who on the weekend she was to give birth to her first child, said "I want an abortion." Extreme, yes, but it shows that even when we know something is for the best, it is still scary and sometimes it seems that it is more than we can bear.

I have specific answers to why I chose this relationship, and I can only answer to my specific situation...

I fell in love. The idea of life without hubby and wife1 was so sad that I couldn't imagine my life otherwise. I believed in poly and I believed that God could use me to bless wife1 in far more ways than I could break her heart. I moved forward believing that we would all be blessed in the end.

SweetLissa
 
Have you read much or any of the teaching articles section?

I urge you to go camp out there for awhile. Read especially the one on How Can A Woman Enjoy her Man Being in Another Union and the one called: Help! Someone in my Family Believes in Polygyny and I Don't.

You can find the articles here:

search.php?search_id=active_topics

Also, one other note, when you joined you should have received an info type of package that explained some things about Biblical Families. In that was a section that said something like not everything you see in the forums is the views of the leadership. Keep that in mind. You'll find people with all kinds of ideas but not all of them are where the staff here would be in regard to personal counsel to those dealing with situations in their life.

All of us on staff here believe in people taking their time, being slow, and considerate to one another as they grow in the Lord.

Dr. Allen
 
Yes thank you I have read most all of the teaching articles quite a few times. I suppose reading, searching, believing and practicing are all different stages of anyone's search for truth and meaning. I thought I was in the 'ready to practice' stage but now seem to get stuck in the confusion state mostly.

I dont recall recieving anything at all when I joined, but I'll go back and check. Sometimes things get missed.

I get bogged down in the misery, jealousy and sadness stuff a lot because that's how I feel.

Thanks again.
 
I am certainly not an expert, just a woman who finds that she is walking down a similar path as you.

The issue with men and stating that they are right...well that is a trait of most men. (No offense guys) They have this true desire for women and other men to follow them. We, as women, need love. But ask any man whether he needs love or respect and he will state that he needs respect. (truly, ask them) That trait makes them seem like puffed up roosters sometimes; however, a few actually do know what they are talking about! :shock:

This does not mean that we need to follow men blindly. It means that we should have enough respect for our husbands to research, and read, and learn the truth for ourselves and choose to follow willingly as we would when we are following Christ.

On that note...

We are free and intelligent women and can decide not to follow our husbands if they have evil intentions… we are free to leave if we are unloved, abused, or uncared for. (There may be men, who would disagree and I respectfully respond to them, “You may kiss my butt!”) As free women, we can choose to hit the trail and there isn’t a darn thing that men can do to stop you! (To the legalistic and selfish men who post...Yes we know that we cannot marry another, but we can leave you if you treat us wrong!) This is a most excellent truth in the United Sates! Under the same principle, according to the research that I have done, men are free to have more than one wife according to the Word. A husband may choose to have another wife as long as he does not forsake you or treat you treacherously. Again... AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT TREATING YOU TREACHEROUSLY!!! (emphasis for treacherous men) A husband loving another woman is not treachery though... not treacherous in the least! :D It is beautiful and displays his capacity to love and lead! A very good example of Christ's love...

What would be the deciding factor of whether or not you left your husband? Step back and take a moment to evaluate the situation. Are your husband’s intentions evil? Or is he loving and kind and concerned about your emotional pain? If his intentions are not evil, then your decision to leave him, IS according to the written Word. That is not harsh. That is a fact.

As far as a time period for “getting on board”… That is dependent upon the strength of character that each person in the relationship holds. It would be different in every relationship. I would say that an intelligent and adaptable woman should be able to accept things within her own time frame, and have the capability to express her needs to ensure that her husband treats her well... if she can step over jealousy and bitterness anyhow. It is not our place to try and take the love of our husband away from another woman. Believe it or not... he can love more than one or two women.

And as to your last question "I'm wondering where is the patience, love, kindness and forbearance that one would expect even from a casual friend, let-a-lone a spouse." I have to turn that question around and ask you, where is that patience, love, kindness and forbearance that one would expect from a loving wife if she is resentful of her husband's love of another woman? That other women loves him too. I also have to wonder why a 1st wife, who knows that her husband loves his other wife as much as her, would want to break the heart of not only the other woman, but her husband too?

Again, this is a heart breaking question to respond to. The emotional turmoil that women have to go through as 1st wives, who expected to be the only wife, is a reality that is addressed daily on this forum. I hope that some men chime in about how they loved their wives into acceptance of one another. Also, it might be good to hear from some men at how terribly heart breaking it is for them to go through loving more than one women, watching them all struggle, and helping them accept the truth about marriage. Donnag, look to others in your union and recognize their grief too.

Be strong! Build your house up. Don't tear it down! ;)
 
My husband took a second wife last year. In my case, my husband was very loving, caring and patient as I worked through everything. His thoughts were that if my heart was not ready, then he needed to be a better husband to get my heart ready.

Unfortunately, there are many women who would take advantage of the position that my husband took, never "being ready" so they wouldn't have to deal with difficulty. I don't know how to answer if that is the case.

I do know that anything worth doing is going to have pain and heartbreak. When the social stigma, loss of friends and family, loss of fellowship with believers, etc. is thrown into the mix like it is with PM, then the pain and heartbreak are definitely intensified. However, the greater the risk, the greater the reward! The ultimate reward is knowing that you have willingly served the Lord with your whole heart by graciously and joyfully submitting to your husband.

Hope this helps.

Katie
 
I do not know how I will fit into anyone’s category here as to the type of husband that I am, but I will put in my 2 cents worth.

God revealed to me in 2005 that poly was for us and that it Isaiah 4:1 was an actual prophecy that would come to pass in the near future. He also spoke it to and though my wife to our home church in Kansas at the time. You can imagine how that went down. After everyone finally left, God sent us from Kansas to South Africa in 2006, where my wife is from and we now live. For the following 5 years, my wife dragged her feet and bobbed and weaved around every woman that God brought our way. She had every excuse in the book and then some to avoid dealing with the command that God gave us to proceed with this thing. I asked her to get involved with this forum and she did join, but would not participate. Finally a couple of months ago, God brought someone to us who had the intestinal fortitude to actually obey God without a lot of kicking and screaming. She came to join our family and I advised my wife in a similar fashion as I did with the many who tried and ‘failed to make the cut’ before her. As Sweetlissa so aptly pointed out, there are many tactics that women use to get their way and my wife used all those she listed and then some. Well it finally broke. God’s timing is interesting to say the least. When this lady came, my wife was several months pregnant and though she received her initially with open arms, she later trumped up a reason to reject the new woman and began to manipulate in ways that I have never seen before. I stood my ground as best that I could and tried to convince my first wife according to the Word what it was that God was trying to do with us, but even though she openly admitted she was wrong, she eventually left with our 4 year old daughter and our newborn son to go stay with her parents about 500 miles away, with their full help and support in the matter and with complete disregard to the Word and will of God.

She and her mother were so vicious and nasty that I was sure I was seeing the face of the devil himself superimposed on them at times. The onslaught was relentless and horrible. What this new woman and I went through I would wish on no human being. We truly felt what it meant to be hated without a cause. We had only ever been kind, loving and considerate until they attacked us. Then we could only stand firmly on the Word and not back down. My first wife did incite me to anger on a couple of occasions, but I repented and quickly got back in line, though it was hard at times. I found during this time that my first wife rejected any kind of loving support that involved the new woman. God forced my hand and pressed the issue with me, by giving me health issues that would only clear up when I would not back down from my first wife and her mother.

In the end, just before my first wife left, God spoke to me and told me to ask her outright, “Where in My Word are you justified in anything that you have done, said or are about to do?” When I asked her this question, she walked out of the room and then came back a moment later and answered...’Nowhere.’ That sealed the deal for me. God told me prophetically directly and through other prophets that she would leave and that I had to let her go. He also told me that my children will be returned to me. She left last week and things are now so peaceful and good that I have never lived in such calm in my entire life. I do not know what the end will be, whether or not she will divorce me, but I do know this from past experience, the only thing I need to do to insure victory is to stand on the truth of the Word.

I do not know if this addresses the concerns posed on this thread, but I believe that it is a story of how awful it is to disobey in open rebellion against this thing. God has revealed to me that Isaiah 4:1 is the most important thing He is doing in the earth right now. The devil knows the significance of this issue because when it does come to pass, it marks the time for him as being very short and he does not want that, so he will resist it tooth and nail. If one is not for Jesus, then they are against Him. It is that simple. If you are a friend of Jesus, you will obey Him, (John 15:14). If you are not His friend, then you are by definition His enemy.

The word ‘submit’ does not imply that the husband must order the wife around, but if necessary he might need to do so. I tell my wives that I do not tell them what to do; only what they SHOULD do. The choice to obey is ultimately theirs and consequences accordingly. The husband is the leader and if, as was pointed out above, he is trying his best to obey what the Spirit of God is directing him to do, then the wife should obey the Word and follow his lead. The wife is NOT the leader any more than we lead Christ as His body. The head ALWAYS leads. The test in this life is to prove to God that we will stay in our position. Lucifer and his buddies failed in this regard and if any human here fails as well, they have one end listed in Rev. 21:8. There is no margin for error in the Word. It is sharp and well defined. It says submit in EVERYTHING. If the husband is Godly then it applies 100%, no ‘if’, ‘ands’, ‘buts or ‘maybes’. There is one judge, God and He will judge us according to how well we obeyed His Word. The wife does not need to hear from God on this issue, she just needs to obey the Word and submit. There is no other way to look at it. Feelings do not get a vote when it comes to the decision to love God and prove that love through obedience. The feelings WILL follow the decision to walk in love and conform to the Word of God. That is how it works.

My first wife lost her place in our family by her decision to rebel against God. I am certain that she will realize the huge mistake she made one day soon. I told her every step of the way where she was off track, and she agreed but would not change. I have never seen that in her before, so it was a shock to me. The new wife and I are working through these things and living at peace for the first time in months. It is wonderful. It hurts to lose people at any point, especially ones that I am so invested in, but I am sure God knows that feeling in large volumes. Time will tell how this story ends, but I beg anyone who reads this to listen to the voice of God and do what He says. It will be much better for you in the short and long run.

Blessings,

Ray
 
donnag said:
I'm wondering where is the patience, love, kindness and forbearance that one would expect even from a casual friend, let-a-lone a spouse. I'm either misreading most everything or maybe I just don't get it. I must say that reading most postings on this forum is freaking me out a bit. I don't see much in the line of the men saying 'We are a team and I'll never do anything that would distress you to the point of leaving'.

Am I just not getting it?

I've wondered these same questions many of times my self in this almost three year journey with pm. I've been finding out lately that I'm hearing from God all the time; however, I don't believe He spells everything out clearly; He waits to see how our free will with act. Keeping in mind that everything is on His timing not ours. Sometimes I'm the one that learns a lesson that I clearly thought God was trying to show someone else. Then I think, Michelle, you dummy, this lesson was for you to learn from the other persons folly or accomplishment. God is always placing people in our paths for different reasons and seasons. As you mentioned above 'patience, love, kindness, forbearance' and I'll add "forgiveness" are things IMHO that He is looking for us to treat others with, just as He continues to do these with us. There are some men that I meet that I feel they are so close to God they should remain so like Paul, because they can't be tied down to women or children only the Lord's work. I feel terrible for people who don't listen to this call, because it brings so much sadness to the wife/wives they bring into the family. On the other hand, I feel so sorry for the priest who desire a family that choose to stay celibate.
 
God has revealed to me that Isaiah 4:1 is the most important thing He is doing in the earth right now.

Ray,

First, I appreciate you and think you are a devoted brother to the Lord.

Second, I am so sorry to hear how all of this has played in your life. I know this has been a long road and cumbersome one.

Third, I will keep all of this in my heart and mind and pray for you as the Lord brngs you to mind.

Fourth, and the one point of which I want to stress, is that polygyny is not the highest or the most important thing God is doing. I do not doubt your impression was something of the like about it being important, but to say it is the most important thing would run contrary to the explicit statement of Scripture and thus we have to keep things in balance. The gospel, the Great Comission, eternal destiny of people is higher on the scale of importance than temporal earthly unions. No one person is ever saved or not saved by entering or not entering a union. So it may be correct that Isaiah 4:1 is an important principle but the "most" would not fit the totality of Scripture's witness. Also, it might even be a means unto getting the gospel to many people, but again the means is never greater than the end itself, which is the gospel and the salvation of a soul.

Fifth, I hope this one word above is taken as an encouragement to strive for balance and not seen as a cut or slight to you in any way. But we have seen people make this issue to big of an issue and by doing so they have ruined their own lives as well as many other lives by not being in balance.

Sixth, if you know of anything in specific that any of us here as staff can do to help you by all means let us know.

And seventh, I hope, if you celebrate the Gentile Christmas custom at this time of year, that you have a great time with your loved ones and that this New Year is one of much grace and blessing in your life.

Dr. Allen
 
Thanks Dr. Allen for your kind input. However, I must remain with what I stated as anything else for me would be a sin, (Romans 14:23). I would stress that He revealed to me that Christian polygyny is the single most important thing that God is doint RIGHT NOW in the earth. I did not say that it superceded the overall plan of God for mankind, salvation, etc.

For the record, I do walk a very balanced life, but it is heavily weighted to obedience to God. On the other side of the scale is of course the Rock of the Word by which I confirm that I am indeed obeying the Holy Spirit and not my own flesh or the devil. I am opn fire for God, so I will not fear being spewed out of Jesus' mouth.

Thanks for the bit about the Christmas and New Years, but I do not celebrate either. Every day is a 'Sabbath' for me and thus the same, since I do not do my own thing, but only God's, (Is. 58).

Blessings,

Ray
 
Ray,

I must respectfully disagree with you that the
single most important thing that God is doing RIGHT NOW in the earth
is Christian Polygyny.

I think that Salvation (which may be happening right now to some soul on this earth at this very moment) is more important than polygyny.

I realize that this board is about polygyny but it is also a CHRISTIAN forum. If that is the case and Salvation is required for one to be as such, then that by default makes Salvation a much more important thing that God is doing right now in the world.

Just a few thoughts.
 
CarolinaButterfly said:
Ray,

I must respectfully disagree with you that the

single most important thing that God is doing RIGHT NOW in the earth

is Christian Polygyny.

I think that Salvation (which may be happening right now to some soul on this earth at this very moment) is more important than polygyny.

I realize that this board is about polygyny but it is also a CHRISTIAN forum. If that is the case and Salvation is required for one to be as such, then that by default makes Salvation a much more important thing that God is doing right now in the world.

Just a few thoughts.

Thank you, C.B. ! There is absolutely NOTHING more important than Salvation ! Nothing even comes close :)
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
donnag said:
I've been reading this forum for several weeks and have a few questions,if I may....
1 It seems from my reading on this forum that the gentlemen seem to be very similar to most churches I've ever attended in that they appear to be saying, "God has 'shown' me a new way and I am convinced that I'm right (I've heard that in several churches over the years). "Wife you either get with the program and follow me whether or not you are ok with it; advanced in your understanding of God as I am; as mature in your walk with God as I think I am; and no matter what, if you don't 'submit and follow' you can leave and I'll call you rebellious and unsaved". This seems soo very harsh to me. I hope I'm just mis-reading most everyone. Am I? Because I'm wondering if you normally impose a 'time period' for a wife to 'get onboard' before you haul in another wife or what.

2 I'm wondering where is the patience, love, kindness and forbearance that one would expect even from a casual friend, let-a-lone a spouse. I'm either misreading most everything or maybe I just don't get it. I must say that reading most postings on this forum is freaking me out a bit. I don't see much in the line of the men saying 'We are a team and I'll never do anything that would distress you to the point of leaving'.

Am I just not getting it?

These are difficult areas for someone who is hurting. From what I've read, you are already in a PM (please correct me if I'm wrong). Even if the quality of the relationship with the SW isn't what you would like....it seems to be a done deal, she's already his wife. I think you got some good advice a few days ago when someone suggested that your husband needs to step up and set some boundaries for the family. Perhaps that will help improve things for everyone. I would also direct you to Pastor John Whitten's article "First Wife Syndrome". It goes over many of the issues you've brought up here.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Thank you Brother Brian for that well written and thought out article. I have also been enjoying your videos on "You Tube". I would like however, to comment on this portion of your article and share some thoughts as to how it relates to the intial post on this thread.
How beautiful was our first marriage? Then any expansion of a family should be near to the same beauty. Any husband who forces the situation outside of the first marriage criteria is self destructing and leading his family away from the love and peace of God’s Word. His spiritual headship is in total disarray. Let me spell this out clearly. Any husband who moves forward without his wife’s loving support is failing in his love for her AND any other potential wives no matter what “rights’ the Word of God provides him.

Let me add something else. Any husband who is meeting or discussing or even hoping for marriage with another woman without his wife or wives’ full and loving support is a deceiver, betrayer and not only falling short of loving his wives like Christ loved the church but has no idea what that means.
While I agree completely that the husbands leadership and Christ-like behavior is essential to the expansion of a family through the addition of another blessed lady, there is more. You referenced it later in the article, but I must add that a husband's best leadership does not guarantee a wife's compatability with God's leadership. In my early years as a pastor, I made the mistake of reversing the order in which God dealt with family members. I would preach about the husbands responsibility first, because that is where I saw the greatest need. Unfortunately, I was wrong (don't quote me on that, I will deny it :lol: ) God always dealt with the wife first, almost as if to say, the husband is the head, but the wife is the neck on which he rests and she makes it possible for him to turn.

Here is how this relates to the original post. The age old problem, from the Garden of Eden til now, is the matter of control. In the original post (thank you Donnag) there are a lot of questions and fears revealed about the emotional response of both the first wife and the second wife. The following scripture speaks to the heart of the matter.
1 Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
We often miss the implication of this verse by the lack of understanding of the two different Greek words used for "his own" and "her own". Without getting into language issues, suffice it to say that "his own" speaks to headship and responsibility of the husband, his own wife that is under his leadership and protection (possessively), in which he may exercise the same for more than one wife simultaneously. "Her own", however relates to the one to whom she belongs or connects with exclusively. She is his and no one else's, ever, and she is proud of that.

When we draw the parallel of Christ and His people with that of a husband with his wife/wives we see the issue clearly solved. The Lord loves us with a great, all encompassing, divine love and our response is to love Him in return with all our heart, mind, soul and might. Complete surrender to His divine will is our only appropriate option. Trusting Him in all things is faith in operation. We have no right to tell Him or expect Him to alter His will to accomodate ours. Our joy is, entirely, based in full surrender to our Lord.
In this example we find that the husband is commanded of God to love his wife in the same way Christ loved the church. Christ never bent His will to the will of His church, but did do that which was essential for and in the best interest of her. The wife's response to God's positioning her in the family, is to behave toward her husband in the same way that the churches of Christ are to behave toward Him. Therefore, she has no control over the actions of her spousal lord and that is the source of most if not all the problems wives have in PM. There have been a lot of related posts recently. Do we trust Christ, ladies? Then trust Him leading your husband, it is not your responsibility to possess your husband and decide what he should or should not do. Rather, it is your blessing to be fully possessed by him and trust fully with complete surrender to his loving husbandmanship. This puts a tremendous responsibility upon husbands and it is by God's design. Husbands need the prayerful support of their wives for this great responsibility. He must look to God for leadership, not to his wife/wives for permission, ever! This behavior on the part of wives, will make us men, better men and husbands and I admit we need the help. I think "Cats_Curiosity" said it earlier that men desire respect above love or other things, from the women in their lives. This is spot on target! Respect equates to trust and when you put that idea in the relationship of Christ and His churches it means FAITH. The one commodity of ours that is necessary for us to please God, Hebrews 11:6.

Bottom line, husbands have the awsome responsibility before God and their family to lead and make godly decisions; wives have the tremendous opportunity to enable their husbands, to be the men God desires them to be. Wives will enjoy them being such for the benefit of the spousal and familial relationship. Let us all enjoy the blessing of God and His design for our families and not blur the function of His operation by trying to swap roles in the family.
 
So I guess, Brian, that women should only submit to their husbands when it is easy? Because although what you describe is beautiful in theory, the reality is that most women will not go here unless pushed a bit. And if the man is to wait until wife1 can wholeheartedly and joyfully say "sure honey go marry another woman. I am more than willing to give up half of everything so you have two women," then he will not be leading his household but she will.

And another point is that you speak as though no Godly man ever made a mistake. Well there are a few on this board who didn't do this the way you say they should have. So are you saying that if a man deceives his first wife then the other marriage is null and void? I don't see that in the scriptures.

I have said many times that in a perfect world everything should be as you say it should be, but this is not a perfect world, men are not perfect, women are not perfect and marriage is not perfect.

SweetLissa
 
I think it boils down to this: first no subjective inner guidance ever goes contrary to the objective standard word. This is much in part what went wrong with the excesses in the Charismatic movement. Dr. Jack Deere, one of the well educated and better scholars of that persuasion of theology, has rightly said:

"All private revelation in any form ought to be checked against the Scriptures. I do not believe that God will ever contradict the Bible. He may contradict our interpreation of the Bible, just as he did Peter's interpretation of the Levitical food laws (Acts 10), but he will never contradict the actual teaching of the Bible. All prophetic words, impressions, dreams, visions, and supernatural experiences of any sort ought to be tested in light of the teaching of the Bible." (Suprised by the Voice of God: How God Speaks Today Through Prophecies, Dreams, and Visions, p, 323).

If a man goes about taking to himself some new lady in any way that goes against the clear objective teachings of the Bible then he is indeed in sin and his "God told me" language is well nothing more than his own deception and pride at work in his mind. Too many today are saying this dumb stuff like "God told me" and whatever it is the idea defies something already stated in Scripture.

Yet on the other hand, there is no direct guide in Scripture to name exactly who is to be a man's first wife, or any other wife either. So there does have to be some subjective guidance by the Spirit. So secondly a man must be humble, OPEN TO COUNSEL FROM THOSE OVER HIM IN THE LORD, which I place in caps because most again struggle with pride and they do not want to hear any other voice giving them any guidance and counsel. Some men are just so dumb and rebllious that they they will ignore any counsel, rush into a union, and then claim it was God who told them to do what they did when their family falls into pieces. Shame on such men! They do not reflect the Lord well nor Biblical Families well or the Evangelical Polygyny movement as a whole well.

But, also, third, there are times when a man has led correctly, has loved rightly, has been patient, and through the man, counsel from others, and even in the family unit itself it has become fairly clear that the woman is to be the mate brought into the family and yet the lady may still be living in sin and rejecting the leadership of the man and even the multiple leadership of multiple godly people who are all coming to the same conclusion about the Lord's providence. In such case the man could be free to decide by the Lord's calling to advance further even if the lady is not willing to follow. These are not the norms though, at least not from what I have seen. But again it does happen.

So, there seems to be three issues here. (1) Some men who want to claim God has told them to do whatever it is they are doing and yet the Bible speaks against it or against the way they are doing it. These people are placing subjective impressions of the Spirit (which are not really of the Spirit or or are not rightly understood) above and over the objective Word of God and such is grossly sinful rebellion. Those who do such things are not to be respected as mature men. (2) There are men who may indeed be moving towards a second union but they do so in the wrong way because they are prideful men who refuse godly counsel when it is available (not all had that opportunity but with every day now there is more and more options to receive godly counsel by those who can be of aid) and these prideful rebellious men often rush a union and then destroy the family because they were not willing to exercise the fruit of the Spirit in the process. Sometimes they will not give time, providence, and Scripture the right place in trying to train and disciple the existing ladies or any new incoming ladies. And (3) there are those times when the Lord has revealed his will, verified it through godly counsel, it has been confirmed by others objectively looking into the matter with both Scripture and current circumstances being examined carefully, and even those in the family know and see the probability yet one member, such as the lady (though sometimes the man too), refuses to submit to the call of the Lord. Only in this third case is it ever permissable for a man to progress yet even in this it must be with much grace and not with arrogance, or with pride or with a mean attitude towards the lady.

But in the first two cases, which is where I see many men today who supposedly come to the doctrine of polygyny (if it really is in their heart I do not know), those types of men are unstable, immature, and unloving.

There is a need to love first and lead with grace, which some are certainly not doing. There is a need for men to never place any so-called personal Word of God above the actual written revelation of Scripture. If what I think I hear from the Spirit contradicts something already stated in Scripture I do not care if I or several people think the person or all people together are Prophets, the Word of God in written form must be obeyed over any personal subjective guidance. But, there are some cases in which love has been given, counsel has been godly and solid, and thus trust in God's will by obedience to a call that may not be totally supported by one member of the family may require the man to carefully, humbly, and with great care to his family move forward in faith despite some opposition.
 
aphesis paraptoma said:
It might be time to reconsider love not force in this thread and I hope these considerations of mine are seen as being offered in love.

Greetings Brother Brian !
I have a serious issue with the main organization that promotes the "Love Not Force" ideology. If my understanding of the "Love Not Force" position is correct then it essentially gives the wife veto power..either of his choice of wife or the decision to even seek a 2nd wife in the first place. A wife can voice her displeasure over the idea ;thereby, stopping the entire process. The problem I have with this is that the issue of "force" hasn't been removed at all...it's simply changed hands. The wife is allowed to "force" her husband to stop by voicing objections. I do believe that a husband should deal lovingly and honorably with his wife, which is commanded in Scripture...but Honestly, I don't see any Biblical precedent for the wife exercising this level of authority over her husband. It certainly is wonderful when husbands and wives are on the same page in a situation like this...but if they're not....my Bible says that the husband is the head of the wife, not the other way around.
Blessings,
Fairlight
 
Thank you soooo much Brian and Dr. Allen. I needed some reassurance and kindness. I really did. I have so much to share after the holidays.

Peace to all,
Donnag
 
Merry Christmas everyone. I'm so glad to have such valuable input from every one of you.

I would like to say that my husband and I have had a very successful 30 year marriage, 2 wonderful children and 3 super granddaughters. We value our family greatly and strive to build our family up all the time. Husband and I are best friends. I asked him if he thought I was a good wife and friend and can you belive that he does! He said he really values my imput on everything, because everything affects us as a family and as partners. We will not add anyone to our family that will bring strife into our home, lives and family. We are in agreement totally on that. He has had the feeling for a few years that there is someone else that will be added, and I have had that feeling also, but we don't feel that that person will be at odds with us, our family and our values. We almost made a big mistake recently, but thankfully he stepped back (without me whinning and complaining, but with much talking together and praying about it) and things are fine for the time being; We just need to wait for the one the Lord brings. We agree on that.

Wishing everyone a peaceful holiday season.
 
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