Raising children in church in PM

[Sam Speaks]

One issue I think about (I’m still single, no kids) is that if I ever did take a second wife, I would still want my children to grow up with some positive exposure to conventional church. I’m not really worried about getting the boot myself as I have many other taboo beliefs anyway. I’ve been unchurched for years and to be honest, I’ve found it somewhat liberating.

But what about the wives and the children?
Could they attend in peace?
Maybe attend separate churches?
Maybe just drop off the kids and pick them up later like so many parents do? (Theoretically this would be simple enough, but sanity goes out the window when you’re dealing with sacred cows.)

 

[FollowingHim2]

But what about the wives and the children?
Could they attend in peace?
Maybe attend separate churches?
Maybe just drop off the kids and pick them up later like so many parents do? (Theoretically this would be simple enough, but sanity goes out the window when you’re dealing with sacred cows.)

Never do anything that involves splitting up your family. If you go to church, it should be together.

Now, if you've got multiple wives then that could be a problem, and maybe you need to figure something out there. But don't ever just drop your kids off at church and pick them up later. You don't know what they're being taught. You don't know what people are saying to your wife behind your back when she's there week after week and you're not.

If a church finds out you have multiple wives, or that you even think it's biblical, there are many times that they have talked to the first wife and encouraged her to leave because her husband is 'sinning'.

You can have fellowship without attending a traditional church. Right now our 'church' is a small home group. Breaking out of traditional church is one of the best things most Christians could do. And since so many are being called out right now, for various reasons, I'm sure that God has a plan there.

 

[Bartato]

Never do anything that involves splitting up your family. If you go to church, it should be together.

Now, if you've got multiple wives then that could be a problem, and maybe you need to figure something out there. But don't ever just drop your kids off at church and pick them up later. You don't know what they're being taught. You don't know what people are saying to your wife behind your back when she's there week after week and you're not.

If a church finds out you have multiple wives, or that you even think it's biblical, there are many times that they have talked to the first wife and encouraged her to leave because her husband is 'sinning'.

You can have fellowship without attending a traditional church. Right now our 'church' is a small home group. Breaking out of traditional church is one of the best things most Christians could do. And since so many are being called out right now, for various reasons, I'm sure that God has a plan there.

That sounds like pretty good advice to me.

It is important to maintain fellowship with other believers. This might be in a traditional church, or it might be in a smaller home based fellowship. Either way, I'd strongly recommend some form of fellowship and accountability with other believers. We aren't meant to be Lone Rangers.

Also, I'd NEVER want my wife or children (though we don't have children) to attend church apart from me. The husband/father is the head of the family (both spiritually and practically). He is responsible to make sure that his family is properly instructed. He can't do that if he isn't even present.

A lot of churches actively undermine husbands and fathers. That is also a big problem.

 

[Keith Martin]

I would still want my children to grow up with some positive exposure to conventional church.

Scripture exhorts us to fellowship with like-minded believers; I would challenge the belief of anyone who asserts that Scripture exhorts us to belong to either denominational or non-denominational exclusive clubs for the supposed purpose of fellowship. Find faith allies, meet with them, and you've accomplished ekklesia. You're also more likely to fully study Scripture by doing so and much more fully challenge each other to grow in faith and wisdom.

Just the fact that "conventional church" is a place that presents very real dangers to those who practice polygyny according to scriptural guidelines is more than enough evidence that "conventional church" has elevated self-promotion over promotion of our Creator.

A lot of churches actively undermine husbands and fathers. That is also a big problem.

Amen.

 

[frederick]

But what about the wives and the children?
Could they attend in peace?
Maybe attend separate churches?

I wholeheartedly agree with Sarah's comments about never doing anything to actively split up your family. When you've encountered some of the wild hostilities from people who claimed to be friends and fellow-believers you'll understand the wisdom of protecting your family. I am staggered by how strongly churched people promote divorce over preserving marital relationships. They will do their utmost to destroy your family and particularly your relationship with your wife if you ever even suggest polygyny so don't give them an open door to influence her. If I could encourage you in a particular study with your (future) wife/wives it would be on the biblical grounds for divorce (or lack thereof). A case in point; the Angel of the Lord sent Hagar back to Abraham and Sarah after she fled Sarah because of the harsh treatment she received from Sarah (Gen. 16:7-9). Think about how many church people you know who would instead offer every help and incentive for Hagar to get away (divorce) and start a new life? The contemporary churchian culture is the exact opposite of what we see by example and instruction (e.g. 1 Cor. 7:10-16) from Holy Scripture when it comes to preserving relationships. Be active in keeping your family together and encourage them to know the Truth for their guidance in all matters of life and faith. Shalom.

 

[FollowingHim]

Scripture exhorts us to fellowship with like-minded believers

I would refine that by saying that scripture exhorts us to fellowship with other believers. It doesn't say they have to be like-minded. In fact, the urge to fellowship with only "like-minded" believers is a dangerous trap, it splits the Church into little congregations and denominations which are self-reinforcing - in them everyone gets convinced more and more that their own particular opinions (and heresies) are absolute truth. And then anyone who is different enough gets the boot.

I think it is more important to fellowship with believers who are NOT like-minded! They're the ones that will challenge you, so you'll grow and not stagnate. Ultimately, we should all be aiming to have the same opinions as Christ, so should end up like-minded, but we're not actually going to get there fully in this life. It's a goal for us and our non-like-minded friends to strive towards in unity of intent if not yet unity of belief.

Don't try and find a group of polygamy-friendly or otherwise like-minded Christians to fellowship with. Rather, find a group of Christians who are happy to fellowship with you, regardless of what they believe. If they disagree with you, yet are still willing to fellowship with you, they are the best people to fellowship with. Such people are rare and precious.

 

[steve]

I would refine that by saying that scripture exhorts us to fellowship with other believers. It doesn't say they have to be like-minded. In fact, the urge to fellowship with only "like-minded" believers is a dangerous trap, it splits the Church into little congregations and denominations which are self-reinforcing - in them everyone gets convinced more and more that their own particular opinions (and heresies) are absolute truth. And then anyone who is different enough gets the boot.

I think it is more important to fellowship with believers who are NOT like-minded! They're the ones that will challenge you, so you'll grow and not stagnate. Ultimately, we should all be aiming to have the same opinions as Christ, so should end up like-minded, but we're not actually going to get there fully in this life. It's a goal for us and our non-like-minded friends to strive towards in unity of intent if not yet unity of belief.

Don't try and find a group of polygamy-friendly or otherwise like-minded Christians to fellowship with. Rather, find a group of Christians who are happy to fellowship with you, regardless of what they believe. If they disagree with you, yet are still willing to fellowship with you, they are the best people to fellowship with. Such people are rare and precious.

I think that you are being too all-or-nothing in your statements.
Like minded doesn’t mean thinking in lockstep with you. It simply means that they believe a lot in common with you and are not rejecting you over the issues that you don’t yet agree on.
Which is what you are in fact doing.

 

[Bartato]

I would refine that by saying that scripture exhorts us to fellowship with other believers. It doesn't say they have to be like-minded. In fact, the urge to fellowship with only "like-minded" believers is a dangerous trap, it splits the Church into little congregations and denominations which are self-reinforcing - in them everyone gets convinced more and more that their own particular opinions (and heresies) are absolute truth. And then anyone who is different enough gets the boot.

I think it is more important to fellowship with believers who are NOT like-minded! They're the ones that will challenge you, so you'll grow and not stagnate. Ultimately, we should all be aiming to have the same opinions as Christ, so should end up like-minded, but we're not actually going to get there fully in this life. It's a goal for us and our non-like-minded friends to strive towards in unity of intent if not yet unity of belief.

Don't try and find a group of polygamy-friendly or otherwise like-minded Christians to fellowship with. Rather, find a group of Christians who are happy to fellowship with you, regardless of what they believe. If they disagree with you, yet are still willing to fellowship with you, they are the best people to fellowship with. Such people are rare and precious.

I think Keith and FollowingHim both make good points. We do have to be of one mind with other believers regarding the essentials (such as the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and the authority of the Bible), and it is ok and sometimes beneficial to disagree on secondary but still important issues, including things like polygyny, mode of baptism, or eating pork.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a correct and incorrect understanding of these matters. The will of God exists on all these matters, and we need to seek it.

There is a priority however.
1. Jesus Christ is the Word of God in the flesh, the Son of God and Son of Man, the Lord and Master of all, and Savior of those who believe Him. We must hear, believe, and follow Him.
2. The Bible is breathed out by God. God has truly spoken to us through the Law, the prophets, the wisdom literature, the narrative passages, the Christ, and His apostles. He requires us to listen, believe, and obey.

As we seek Christ, pursue His Kingdom, and humble ourselves before the Almighty, the Holy Spirit will help us better understand His written word. We are being sanctified, and will one day be made whole.

 

[Farmer Moses]

I think Keith and FollowingHim both make good points. We do have to be of one mind with other believers regarding the essentials (such as the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and the authority of the Bible), and it is ok and sometimes beneficial to disagree on secondary but still important issues, including things like polygyny, mode of baptism, or eating pork.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a correct and incorrect understanding of these matters. The will of God exists on all these matters, and we need to seek it.

There is a priority however.
1. Jesus Christ is the Word of God in the flesh, the Son of God and Son of Man, the Lord and Master of all, and Savior of those who believe Him. We must hear, believe, and follow Him.
2. The Bible is breathed out by God. God has truly spoken to us through the Law, the prophets, the wisdom literature, the narrative passages, the Christ, and His apostles. He requires us to listen, believe, and obey.

As we seek Christ, pursue His Kingdom, and humble ourselves before the Almighty, the Holy Spirit will help us better understand His written word. We are being sanctified, and will one day be made whole.

Agreed. I would add that this fellowship with other believers should not be done under the authority of any anti-polygyny church leadership. Christians of common core beliefs hanging out in each other's homes respecting and learning from each other. That can be difficult to do if you remain a member of a church who tries to undermine your male authority over your family and brands you a heretic to the congregation. I suppose if things have gotten that far, many friendships you once had in the Church may cease.

One last point of encouragement to men leading a home church with their families, I think the most important church membership to be valued is the worldwide catholic (universal not roman) church. Our citizenship is in heaven and no self righteous pastor with multiple MDiv degrees and numerous publications can undo that.

 

[Joleneakamama]

One issue I think about (I’m still single, no kids) is that if I ever did take a second wife, I would still want my children to grow up with some positive exposure to conventional church. I’m not really worried about getting the boot myself as I have many other taboo beliefs anyway. I’ve been unchurched for years and to be honest, I’ve found it somewhat liberating.

But what about the wives and the children?
Could they attend in peace?
Maybe attend separate churches?
Maybe just drop off the kids and pick them up later like so many parents do? (Theoretically this would be simple enough, but sanity goes out the window when you’re dealing with sacred cows.)

The following is part of a comment I made on another thread six years ago.


In the 20 years my husband and I have been together, we have grieved over failed marriages with our family, and sometimes friends. About 13 years ago,(make that over 18 years now) a couple we were friends with split up. She had left him three or four times before, but this time she found a Four Square Church to support her, along with a woman's ministry called Safety In Numbers. Abbreviate that for me, then tell me when God has ever needed numbers to work His plans? The pastor of this church refused to even consider them married, and counseled the husband NOT to even attend services there with his wife and four children!
This church considered her a single mother. She found friends that supported her in leaving, and eventually moving on to a new relationship (that last I heard, had also ended badly).
The husband went many years only seeing his children twice. They don't even know their father. The wife refused to have any contact with us, or anyone else who may have encouraged her to work things out.
I look at our family, and see what theirs might have been, had they stayed together.
They were monogamous. They still had issues, and never learned to work together. And people act like monogamy ensures a happily ever after!!


There is no humanistic, incorporated church out there that will support polygyny that I am aware of. It is like looking for believers in Yeshua/Jesus among the heathen....double minded heathen at that because they do not recognise that they are affirming an authority (the state) that is ungodly and anti christ. The state will tell you you have freedom of religion, but that means ONLY if you stay inside the parameters THEIR authority grants you to practice your religion. You must still do sacrifices to baal (taxes) that will be used to fund child sacrifice (abortion) and pay for developement of injections made with human tissue from sacrificed babies....to be forced if possible into everyone that worships (obeys) that god (authority).

Had enough yet? The solution can not be more of what made the problem. Who ya gonna vote for?

 

[Farmer Moses]

The following is part of a comment I made on another thread six years ago.


In the 20 years my husband and I have been together, we have grieved over failed marriages with our family, and sometimes friends. About 13 years ago,(make that over 18 years now) a couple we were friends with split up. She had left him three or four times before, but this time she found a Four Square Church to support her, along with a woman's ministry called Safety In Numbers. Abbreviate that for me, then tell me when God has ever needed numbers to work His plans? The pastor of this church refused to even consider them married, and counseled the husband NOT to even attend services there with his wife and four children!
This church considered her a single mother. She found friends that supported her in leaving, and eventually moving on to a new relationship (that last I heard, had also ended badly).
The husband went many years only seeing his children twice. They don't even know their father. The wife refused to have any contact with us, or anyone else who may have encouraged her to work things out.
I look at our family, and see what theirs might have been, had they stayed together.
They were monogamous. They still had issues, and never learned to work together. And people act like monogamy ensures a happily ever after!!


There is no humanistic, incorporated church out there that will support polygyny that I am aware of. It is like looking for believers in Yeshua/Jesus among the heathen....double minded heathen at that because they do not recognise that they are affirming an authority (the state) that is ungodly and anti christ. The state will tell you you have freedom of religion, but that means ONLY if you stay inside the parameters THEIR authority grants you to practice your religion. You must still do sacrifices to baal (taxes) that will be used to fund child sacrifice (abortion) and pay for developement of injections made with human tissue from sacrificed babies....to be forced if possible into everyone that worships (obeys) that god (authority).

Had enough yet? The solution can not be more of what made the problem. Who ya gonna vote for? View attachment 2876

Amen Sister! Agree 100%. I may steal that voting meme as it is pretty good lol.

 

[Bartato]

Amen Sister! Agree 100%. I may steal that voting meme as it is pretty good lol.

I just "borrowed" the meme, and will be sending it out.

 

[Bartato]

Agreed. I would add that this fellowship with other believers should not be done under the authority of any anti-polygyny church leadership. Christians of common core beliefs hanging out in each other's homes respecting and learning from each other. That can be difficult to do if you remain a member of a church who tries to undermine your male authority over your family and brands you a heretic to the congregation. I suppose if things have gotten that far, many friendships you once had in the Church may cease.

One last point of encouragement to men leading a home church with their families, I think the most important church membership to be valued is the worldwide catholic (universal not roman) church. Our citizenship is in heaven and no self righteous pastor with multiple MDiv degrees and numerous publications can undo that.

I don't think you can maintain fellowship where the leadership has denounced you as a heretic or false teacher for holding or teaching a Biblical belief.

A home based (and non 501C) church is probably to be preferred. I don't imagine that churches of that sort shut down over covid (like the tax exempt.corporate churches).

The leaders at my last church did publicly denounce me, so we left. They said that I had engaged in false teaching in regard to the issue of polygamy, and put me under formal public church discipline. At that point, I no longer regarded them as legitimate elders (based on 1st Timothy and Titus).and had to leave.

To the best of my knowledge, they still regard me as a brother in Christ (who is in serious error), rather than an apostate, or heretic.

I regard them similarly, as brothers in Christ who are in very serious error and/or compromised with the world.

Perhaps some of them are false brothers. I do not know. The matter is in the hands of the Master. If they belong to Him, they will eventually come around. If they are enemies of Christ rather than brothers, then He will deal with them in due time.

I know them pretty well, and am fairly certain that they are true brothers (but disqualified to lead).

 

[Bartato]

I think the situation at the church we presently attend is a little different.

I do have some concerns about the church, and may have to eventually leave, but I'm not there yet.

These elders know my beliefs, and regard me as a brother in Christ, though they do not want me to join the church formally or teach within in the context of the church.

I also regard them as brothers, and brothers have a right to speak into my life. I do not regard them as having any more authority over my life than any other Christian brother.

I think they would generally act similarly towards other Christians that hold other particular beliefs they strongly disagree with.

Here are a few scenarios.

This particular church is Southern Baptist and holds to a Calvinistic view of God's sovereignty in salvation.

If a Christian of the Wesleyan Arminian viewpoint wanted to fellowship with them, they would happily consider him a brother, but wouldn't want him to teach, or be a voting member.

Likewise, if a Christian of the Paedobaptist (baptised as an infant) persuasion wanted to fellowship with them, they would certainly welcome him and regard him as a brother. Still, they wouldn't let him join the church unless he submitted to believer's baptism.

I know this isn't totally satisfactory. We may still have to leave. If we do leave, I think it will be over the issue of patriarchy (vs complementarionism), not polygyny. I regard polygyny to be a subcategory of patriarchy.

 

[Farmer Moses]

I think the situation at the church we presently attend is a little different.

I do have some concerns about the church, and may have to eventually leave, but I'm not there yet.

These elders know my beliefs, and regard me as a brother in Christ, though they do not want me to join the church formally or teach within in the context of the church.

I also regard them as brothers, and brothers have a right to speak into my life. I do not regard them as having any more authority over my life than any other Christian brother.

I think they would generally act similarly towards other Christians that hold other particular beliefs they strongly disagree with.

Here are a few scenarios.

This particular church is Southern Baptist and holds to a Calvinistic view of God's sovereignty in salvation.

If a Christian of the Wesleyan Arminian viewpoint wanted to fellowship with them, they would happily consider him a brother, but wouldn't want him to teach, or be a voting member.

Likewise, if a Christian of the Paedobaptist (baptised as an infant) persuasion wanted to fellowship with them, they would certainly welcome him and regard him as a brother. Still, they wouldn't let him join the church unless he submitted to believer's baptism.

I know this isn't totally satisfactory. We may still have to leave. If we do leave, I think it will be over the issue of patriarchy (vs complementarionism), not polygyny. I regard polygyny to be a subcategory of patriarchy.

Your willingness to fellowship with folks who won't let you join their church due to beliefs that are biblical is admirable I think as far as the ability to influence other Christians who haven't considered the issue before.

Some members on this forum have shared with me about their home church and coupled with being stuck at home watching sermons remotely. Wifey has been historically very afraid of Covid as she has had several family members in India die from it or become severely ill and require hospitalization. I was not as concerned looking at the statistics of the death rate being below 2 percent etc. But in order for us to worship together as a family, we watched sermons online for basically 2 years. Also with my dear wifey needing help understanding polygyny and hopefully embracing it one day, I decided to teach my family on Sunday. We sing songs out of the Trinity Hymnal, studying Romans currently, and have a small cup and tray set for communion. I don't consider myself a preacher, which I don't really do, but do believe God has given us the offices of prophet, priest, and king for our individual families. Of which I am exercising in my flawed but mostly faithful obedience to Christ through His Strength alone.

So far no one has bucked too hard and some good questions and beginnings of fruit are appearing.

Currently we are still members of the corporate church in town and I know I will have to prepare myself and face the pastor and elders as well as to my new but biblical convictions. Will likely be soon.

 

[Joleneakamama]

I just "borrowed" the meme, and will be sending it out.

I remembered seeing it at acm outpost. A blog I have shared here often. But after scrolling many pages I turned to Google for the vote baal vote moloch search that turned up that image.

A lady from bibfam once asked me what my gift was. I never thought of it before....still don't really know. But I love puzzles, and have a good memory. My mind likes connecting the pieces. *shrugs*
Our son liked a quote. "Some men learn from reading about the experiences of others, some men learn from observation, and some have to pee on the electric fence themselves."

Our youngest LOVES this picture, and has the caption memorized.

My point for this thread would be that a ton of witnesses here confirm that polygyny and corporate denominations don't mix. But one can always try.
When our kid face plants in the dirt we ask "How did that work out for you?" We expect to hear "Not good" about some things. Realism I reckon.

 

[Sam Speaks]

“If a church finds out you have multiple wives, or that you even think it's biblical, there are many times that they have talked to the first wife and encouraged her to leave because her husband is 'sinning'.”

Somehow I don’t doubt that at all!

 

[Keith Martin]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean identical-belief believers. If I thought that, Biblical Families wouldn't be able to have any cohesion!

By like-minded, I just meant being fellow members of the Body of Christ and having at least some things in common about how to approach being fellow members of the Body of Christ.

Like-minded as in not being from entirely different religions.

 

[julieb]

I would still want my children to grow up with some positive exposure to conventional church. I’m not really worried about getting the boot myself as I have many other taboo beliefs anyway. I’ve been unchurched for years and to be honest, I’ve found it somewhat liberating.

I would encourage you to think about these statements. They seem to be in opposition to each other. Yet, I can totally relate! I loved being a part of a church. It was my main community for my life before polygyny happened to it. In short, it was an Idol I had to "throw away" before truly following my husband, and my Savior, down the path they were asking me to walk. I knew the church had it's faults and wrong beliefs but I loved the community of it and the good I saw in it. There is obviously some positive thing you want your children to receive from being a part of a church even though you have personally found emotional freedom by NOT being a part of one. What is that positive thing you are desiring? Can you give it up if the Lord so asks it of you? Can you have faith that the Lord can provide the that but in a different way possibly, as you walk the path He sends you down? The great and beautiful thing about God is that he is a loving Father to his children and he desires good things for us and our families. Trust in that and know He will provide all the important experiences that your children will need in their lives.

 

[FollowingHim]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean identical-belief believers. If I thought that, Biblical Families wouldn't be able to have any cohesion!

By like-minded, I just meant being fellow members of the Body of Christ and having at least some things in common about how to approach being fellow members of the Body of Christ.

Like-minded as in not being from entirely different religions.

Of course. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was fleshing out some details.