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Response to Mike Winger's Train Wreck on Polygamy and Divorce
- Thread starter PeteR
- Start date
These guys like Mike Winger base their negative remarks about polygamy mostly on the great men of Israel's history. It's always Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon who they trot out as the proofs for the disaster they claim polygamy to be. What is it with these guys? Why are they so antisemitic? Why don't they trot Adam and Eve out as proofs for the failure of monogamy? Oh that's right, monogamy is perfect! There are no examples of failures. Silly me.
I was listening to this video on the way into school this morning when he decided to drop an attack on polygyny out of no where. I left a comment explaining how Exodus 21:10 clearly explains a man can have multiple wives and not deprive them of their conjugal rights. I linked to the time code where he says 1 Cor. 7 proves polygyny is prohibited for Christians.
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Question kind of related to this and misinterpretation of scripture. In Matthew 25, Jesus gives the parable of the 10 virgins. All I have ever heard preached and taught is that these 10 virgins were bridesmaids, never brides. How do we know these 10 virgins, or at least the 5 that went in to the marriage were brides. I mean the clear reading of scripture in Matthew 25:10 seems to indicate that. However, the New Living Translation actually translates the Greek word for virgins and bridesmaids. Are they wrong. Have they been corrupted by modern scholarship? Any insights into this passage is welcome.
Have you ever heard of the bridesmaids being locked in with the groom?
No I haven't. It seems clear to me. But then why have I seen every preacher and commentary say it is bridesmaids.
I just read one of my study Bible's notes on this parable and it specifically says that these are bridesmaids and not brides.
If you're arguing it with a preacher that says bridesmaids, ask him where else bridesmaids are mentioned in scripture. And ask him why in verse ten did Jesus say the virgins went in with the bridegroom into the marriages plural? Because that's the word Jesus used. Unless they're saying Jesus meant to say a singular marriage. But He, God of Gods, Lord of Lords, King of Kings, said "marriages" plural.
γάμους (Plural for marriage = Marriages)
Matthew 25 :: King James Version (KJV)
Matthew 25 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
www.blueletterbible.org
Then toss Matthew 22 at him. Again, Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made marriages for his son,"
I bolded the word that in Greek is plural, fixing the supposed mistake made by the KJV translators.
Numerous times in that parable Jesus used the plural word for marriages. And sometimes used the singular word in the same story strengthening the understanding that there was a singular feast/celebration, but multiple marriages occurring. God does not make mistakes. So He intended to say the plural word.
I bolded the word that in Greek is plural, fixing the supposed mistake made by the KJV translators.
Numerous times in that parable Jesus used the plural word for marriages. And sometimes used the singular word in the same story strengthening the understanding that there was a singular feast/celebration, but multiple marriages occurring. God does not make mistakes. So He intended to say the plural word.
I checked several translations and they all said wedding or wedding banquet.
The KJV study Bible with study notes says bridesmaids in the notes, and the NLT actually says bridesmaids in the text. Note that I don't think it's bridesmaids, but the questions is why do most top scholars think it does indicate that.
NLT:
25 “Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids[a] who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
NLT:
25 “Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids[a] who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
It's because to think anything else but bride's maids would support polygyny, and undermine the monogamy-only heresy that they cling to. And also because they would surely be removed from their office of "top scholar" if they were to challenge any of the commonly accepted "Christian" doctrines, especially one so fervently held as monogamy-only.
You can look in those same study notes, and see how at every opportunity they try to pass off monogamy as the only righteous thing, and many will even drag the Patriarch's names thru the mud in their efforts to convey how bad polygamy is.
Some key places to look in the study notes are; Gen 16, Deu 17:17, 2Sa 12, 1Ki 11. Note there in 1Ki 11, that it says "Solomon loved many strange women", then goes on to say how many wives and concubines he had. At no point does it say he had too many wives, but rather "strange women". Also in Neh 13:25-26, King Solomon is cited for his foreign wives, but no remark at all about too many.
Those are all very good pro-poly sections, but watch how the commentators try to downplay poly and advance the monogamy-only heresy. And when they try to say that Abraham sinned with Hagar; read 1Jo 3:4, then Gen 26:5 and then ask how they concluded that Abraham sinned.
When it comes to any passage that conflicts with commonly accepted "Christian" doctrines, one should not expect much quality commentary, and also expect those same commentaries to be wrong about any other matter built on those wrong doctrines.
Youngs Literal Translation reads, And while they are going away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those ready went in with him to the marriage-feasts, and the door was shut (Matt. 25:10).
The majority isn't always correct!
If they're willing to collaborate and mistranslate the Word of God in this, imagine what other deceptions exist in the various versions and commentaries. Good on you for asking questions. I consider those scholars no different than what the term "scientist" has become in the wake of recent events. I wager you won't be calling yourself Baptist or any other ist for long if you stay on this path of discovery.
I ask questions and I seek truth. Because my religion says or my preacher says is not good enough for me. I desire to know God deeply. I want to know truth. People can be wrong. God is never wrong. Although I believe “most” of what the Baptists teach, I completely reject extra biblical teaching, rules, and man made doctrines.
It’s clear to me this passage is talking about multiple brides. I just wanted to gather some thoughts as to why things are. I read the NLT for ease of understanding but they completely mistranslated virgins as bridesmaids. I wonder why.
All of the translators had an anti-polygyny bias, what is there to wonder?
Respectfully, not speaking about you at all. But I don't give a fig what translators think. Therefore I don't care particularly what several translations say. Lots of "officials" can repeat a lie and it doesn't become truth.
My point was God made flesh used a plural word for marriage, "marriages". The translators decided to change His words into their idea of what God should have said and perverted the words to seemingly support the doctrine of devils known as monogamy only.
Who cares if the NLT says bridesmaids? What words did Jesus actually speak and did that word mean "bridesmaid" or simply "virgin". Because He said one word and not the other.
I'll illustrate it like this.
Let's say you were pulled over, the officer said you were speeding, you said you weren't and he wrote you a ticket anyways. His report said you were speeding and intoxicated to boot, the report also said you resisted arrest and assaulted the officer. He took you to jail, you demanded a blood test that showed 0. You also had a monitoring device installed that recorded your speed and any signaling, as well as video and audio recording of the interior and exterior.
You show up in court with records of your speed, lack of any BAC, and a video showing you were polite, respectful, and complied with the orders of the officer. As well as records of a past conflict you had with the officer where he swore he would make you pay one day.
It turns out the officer had an agenda, and he falsified your words on his report. He changed the story to suit his narrative and lied in the process. You could prove it because you have documentation of what exactly transpired.
Who cares what his report says, or what his commentary is on the day's confrontation. He's a liar and the truth is not in him. Would he be trustworthy?
We have Greek manuscripts that show conclusively that Jesus did not say "bridesmaid", and he didn't say "marriage", He said "virgins, and "marriages".
Those older documents prove the translators are EITHER mistaken in their translation and it's an innocent mistake. Or they are liars perpetrating a perversion of God's Word upon unsuspecting innocents. And when the vast majority of their changes to what was actually said support monogamy only, and suppress the truth that Jesus spoke words promoting polygyny.... Well I can only assume they are liars and the truth is not in them.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools...
They are professing to be wise, perverting the Word of God to support the doctrines of men they uphold as higher than what God has commanded.
Matthew 15:6-9 And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 “You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
8‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS,
BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
9‘BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,
TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.’”