• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Seedline doctrine examined

Joleneakamama said:
They are a different manner of people and the separation will always exist between those who choose YHWH, and those who choose to fight against Him.

I really believe the "seedline" is not exclusively literal, but rather is partly related to choice. But some choices are passed onto (inherited by) posterity.

Some are called sons of God, some sons of Satan, but neither is necessarily because they were physically 'begotten' as such.
Click to expand...
Thoroughly agree. We have this choice- (or rather faith-)related "seedline" clearly stated in many places:

Romans 9:6-8: ... For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:7: Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

John 8:39-45,47:
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. ... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

It's so unrelated to the physical that we even have talk of people potentially being seed, then becoming not seed, then becoming seed again:

Romans 11:17-23:
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. ... because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. ... And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
 
Luke 10:18
18 And he said to them, w“I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Isaiah 14:12
How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

Genesis 6:1–4
6 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, z“My Spirit shall not abide in1 man forever, afor he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim2 were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Sons of God?

Literal or figurative? Even though seed can be choices, these verses are not talking about 'choices' but things taking place in Heaven.

There are those who believe that the spiritual world is more real than the physical and what we see, or know, about the reality we live in here is only a representation of what's going on in the place God dwells.
 
FollowingHim said:
Romans 9:6-8: ... For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Click to expand...
Most see this as excluding some of the physical literal Israelites (and that may be part of the meaning) but after reading that Jewish Encyclopedia entry about Edom/Edomites it appears very possible that Paul was referencing another group of people (Edomites) that at that time were incorporated with Israel.
FollowingHim said:
It's so unrelated to the physical that we even have talk of people potentially being seed, then becoming not seed, then becoming seed again:
Click to expand...

The "Gentiles" Paul ministered to were descendants of the ten tribes or Paul misapplied scripture. The grafting in of a "wild olive" did not in any way change the genetics of the part or individual that is grafted in....but different rootstock can change how much fruit you get. Grafting lets the one grafted partake of the root.
It is contrary to what is normally done to graft wild stuff onto cultivated roots, usually it's done the other way around and you graft proven, productive, cultivated varieties onto wild growing volunteer roots.

Paul listed a lot of things that pertained to Israel. God never had a covenant with Esau/Edom. Israelites were the sheep....but goats were acceptable as Passover lambs, and goats are acceptable to YHWH today when they choose to follow Christ and present themselves as living sacrifices.

The Nephilim are another matter. But we are told that the unseen is understood by what is seen. Not to try and understand what is seen by study of the 'supernatural' or 'unseen.'
Some think we are racist for affirming that an Israelite is a literal descendant of the man Israel. Some don't think we are racist enough because we believe that many people today that they would exclude are Israelite.
*shrugs*
 
Verifyveritas76 said:
That’s interesting but hardly conclusive. I do agree that Christ was the fulfillment of the seed promised to both Eve and Abraham. In His case a physical manifestation of a seedline. Is it unrealistic to hypothesize that the other seedline could also have a physical manifestation?
Click to expand...

I don’t know how Satan would have seed other than spiritually speaking. It would seem that in order to have physical offspring a woman is required. If there is a physical manifestation, scripture doesn’t reveal it. The sons of God and the daughters of men in Genesis 6 wouldn’t be the line refered to here, at least based on our understanding of it. The fallen angels who had relations with women were not Satan so the nephilim wouldn’t be his seed. Even the nephilim came through women (if we are understanding it correctly). We see where Jesus refers to certain people as children of the Devil. That’s about all we have from scripture, so I don’t think it’s realistic to then simply assume that a legend of dubious origin must be true.
 
rockfox said:
Nephilim. The giants. Fallen angels mating with women. Ya, multiple seed lines involved there. However the temptation in the garden implies this goes back farther than Gen 6.

Best available theory suggests that the worshipers of Satan organize themselves along 13 bloodline families among whom power and wealth are shared and passed down. Needless to say a lot of that is hard to tell from conjecture, Satan isn't exactly open about his activities. But my point is, so far as we can tell they believe there is a war between seed lines.
Click to expand...

Where does this information come from?
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
so I don’t think it’s realistic to then simply assume that a legend of dubious origin must be true
Click to expand...

I have no dog in this debate. I really am not interested in this topic. I was just pointing out that Genesis 3:15 very clearly differentiates two seed lines apparently. I don’t know how that can be read any different. What it means on the other hand, I’ll leave for those who do care about this topic to figure out.
 
Cap said:
Literal or figurative? Even though seed can be choices, these verses are not talking about 'choices' but things taking place in Heaven.
Click to expand...
Maybe not in heaven.
Isaiah 14:12
How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!
Even Strong' s concordance says Lucifer was a title applied to the king of Babylon.
 
The nephilim were certainly a real, physical bloodline. It's important to recognise as it helps to explain why the flood was necessary, and (given they existed "also afterwards") why the Canaanites had to be entirely exterminated, even their kids - there was a physical bloodline that had to be eradicated.

But firstly, this is a bloodline that originated long after the fall, so is nothing to do with a separate line of people at the time of Adam. And:
Asforme&myhouse said:
The fallen angels who had relations with women were not Satan so the nephilim wouldn’t be his seed.
Click to expand...
A fact that is indicated in scripture, and stated clearly in Enoch (if that is to be taken as valid).

There are two separate issues here.
 
FollowingHim said:
The nephilim were certainly a real, physical bloodline. It's important to recognise as it helps to explain why the flood was necessary, and (given they existed "also afterwards") why the Canaanites had to be entirely exterminated, even their kids - there was a physical bloodline that had to be eradicated
Click to expand...

I have always had a problem with that idea, because something different was said about why the Canaanites were driven out.
Lev. 18:24-30
24Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.26Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) 28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. 30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I amthe LORD your God.

YHWH didn't prohibit intermarriage with fallen angels in the verses preceding this warning or anywhere else I am aware of.

I am inclined to believe that the "sons of god that did not keep their first estate" were likely just men who had influence or power and were corrupted by it.

In a book I am willing to send on loan to any member that requests it (terms and conditions you write in it your name and the date you finished it before sending it on to someone else or back to me) there is history recorded that is not unlike David's sin in that a man who had many wives as well as power or influence in his city set his heart upon yet another woman, and probably instructed other men to take unlawful measures to eliminate the competition. This was Utah in the USA not that long ago. And a young man of about 22 was castrated for not ceasing to interact with the young woman he was interested in. Talk about a case of a bad shepherd! Folks here discuss how a bishop is to either be limited to one wife, or have at least one as a minimum requirement. This man had several wives and was a greedy and unprincipled man who apparently had other men "under him" or loyal to him who also missed the lesson to be had in king David's sin with Bethsheba.
Got to go for now.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top