Shabbat Throughout the Nations

[Earth_is-]

Some have recognized how "HalleluYAH" has been preserved throughout the nations/cultures of the Earth. Which simply means "Praise YAH." Psalm 150:1.

There is something else that has been preserved as well. The Shabbat:




Here are the names of the word "Saturday" for the following nations:




This is evidence that all these nations - at one point in human history - honored the Creator's Shabbat. Obviously, most of the human population today no longer honors the Creator's Shabbat; including most of those in Christianity. Even though it is the 4th commandment, and the Most High never changed it to "Sun-Day." (1st day of the week). But men changed it to Sun-Day. Specifically, Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church - around 320 AD.

Matthew 15:8-9 NLT
8 These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Why are Sabbath keepers so myopic? We crow and strut and sneer at those who go to church on Sunday but never once stop and ask when the hell were we ever told what day to assemble on?

How did those of us who claim to keep the Law and to never add or or subtract from it end up adding an entire of provision of what day we have to assemble?

The Sabbath command is to rest, not to assemble. By the commandment, modern Christians can make a claim to being more true to the sabbath than we can. They rest all day on the sabbath and then have an entire other day dedicated to assembling.

Our arrogance and determined blindness to our own claims is going to throttle our movement in its cradle.

And by the way, is there any actual proof about when assembling switched to Sunday? Is this just more juvenile trolling by atheists that Torah keepers glommed on to because it insults “Christians”?

It’s time to grow up Torah keepers. We’ve been around long enough now that we can deal with complexity.

Those who disagree with us are not inherently evil and we have a lot of things we have to figure out.

Childish crowing about Sunday church is exactly that, childish crowing. We’re never told to assemble on the Sabbath. You could make the argument that since meals were associated with assemblies that we SHOULDN’T assemble on the sabbath to reduce the need for food preparation.

But let’s keep being self-righteous about things we don’t understand. That will change their minds.

Some have recognized how "HalleluYAH" has been preserved throughout the nations/cultures of the Earth. Which simply means "Praise YAH." Psalm 150:1.

There is something else that has been preserved as well. The Shabbat:

View attachment 8511


Here are the names of the word "Saturday" for the following nations:

View attachment 8512
View attachment 8513

This is evidence that all these nations - at one point in human history - honored the Creator's Shabbat. Obviously, most of the human population today no longer honors the Creator's Shabbat; including most of those in Christianity. Even though it is the 4th commandment, and the Most High never changed it to "Sun-Day." (1st day of the week). But men changed it to Sun-Day. Specifically, Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church - around 320 AD.

Matthew 15:8-9 NLT
8 These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

 

[steve]

Why are anti Saturday Sabbath keepers so militant and attack Messianics in their own ghetto?

 

[Bartato]

You guys know I attend church on the first day, not the seventh. That said, I don't actually think the first day replaced the seventh as the Sabbath. I believe Christ Himself has become our True Sabbath Rest. Resting In Him is paramount.

(Here I probably differ somewhat from the Reformed tradition that I generally hold to. They probably generally do tend to believe the first day replaced the seventh as the Sabbath.)

I don't want to discourage anyone from keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day. You are free to do that, and you might indeed be Biblically correct to do so. Obedience to God's instructions is very good and important.

It's just that this (and everything else) is now secondary to God Man Himself. He is our only Hope in life and in death. He is the True Rest that Sabbath points to.

 

[steve]

You guys know I attend church on the first day, not the seventh. That said, I don't actually think the first day replaced the seventh as the Sabbath. I believe Christ Himself has become our True Sabbath Rest. Resting In Him is paramount.

(Here I probably differ somewhat from the Reformed tradition that I generally hold to. They probably generally do tend to believe the first day replaced the seventh as the Sabbath.)

I don't want to discourage anyone from keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day. You are free to do that, and you might indeed be Biblically correct to do so. Obedience to God's instructions is very good and important.

It's just that this (and everything else) is now secondary to God Man Himself. He is our only Hope in life and in death. He is the True Rest that Sabbath points to.

This is the Messianic section, we don’t care what you think.

 

[steve]

I guess that if it is ok for a moderator for to attack us here, not even the ghetto is safe.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Why are anti Saturday Sabbath keepers so militant and attack Messianics in their own ghetto?

I don’t know what an anti-Saturday sabbath keeper is but this my ghetto too remember.

I keep the Saturday sabbath assiduously. I just don’t think it’s anything to brag about publicly.

And what was the purpose of this thread? This is a marriage ministry. There was no point in bringing this up here. It was just immature.

I have yet to see a Hellenistic believer start a whole thread about how self satisfied he is about going to church on Sunday.

I’m assuming there’s a back channel mafia organized behind the scenes somewhere trying to see how far they can push the no Torah debate policy, well here’s the answer: they can push it as far as they can push me.

This ministry will not be sabotaged by those looking to hi-jack it for their own self aggrandizement. This is not a Torah ministry. It is a marriage ministry.

It has room for both Torah keepers and non-Torah keepers. Torah keepers can even be very prominent. You and Pete are on the board of directors for crying out loud.

We just can’t use the platform to push non-patriarchal linked theology.

I shouldn’t even be having this conversation. I should have just deleted the thread.

 

[steve]

I keep the Saturday sabbath assiduously. I just don’t think it’s anything to brag about publicly.

Then why are you making a big stink about:

Why are Sabbath keepers so myopic? We crow and strut and sneer at those who go to church on Sunday but never once stop and ask when the hell were we ever told what day to assemble on?

You seem to have a hair up your butt about any slight deviation from what you find as the perfect path.

 

[Mark C]

We just can’t use the platform to push non-patriarchal linked theology.

Since when is even TALKING about the Whole Counsel of YHVH somehow NOT linked to ALL of His Word - including patriarchy!!!!!!???

What really pisses me off about the Totalitarian anti-Torah Gestapo (that clear enough, Zec?) is that you pretend that ANYTHING you don't like is "contrary" to a mission that allegedly teaches that His Word includes a lot of Truth about marriage that has been ignored.

Trouble is, you try to PROHIBIT any talk about any of the rest!

Men changed His Word about 'marriage.' A lot! Do you really think it stopped there?

Yes, His Sabbath - from the Beginning - is specified as His Day, a day of rest. He says - repeatedly - keep it, remember it, 'forever,' and "throughout your generations," and "in all your dwelling places."

He said "don't work" on His Sabbath. Even that it's "not too hard for you." Just take a rest.

Last time I checked, that was even more unequivocal than "if he take another wife."


The point I find UNBELIEVABLE is:

How can those who want to understand why He didn't change His mind about marriage - but the 'Church' certainly did it for Him!!! - be so blind as to claim that they couldn't - and didn't - just change the rest of His instruction just as easily?

Men like to pick and choose.

And Zec wants to make sure they can't even TALK about THAT in the Ghetto!

 

[Bartato]

This is the Messianic section, we don’t care what you think.

Why are anti Saturday Sabbath keepers so militant and attack Messianics in their own ghetto?

So is this just a ghetto for the Hebrew roots guys to preach to their own choir, and argue with each other?

I took it more as a subsection where we can discuss these sorts of topics.

Since @Earth_is- post was critical of those who gather together on the first day of the week rather than on the seventh, it might be helpful to point out what many of us actually believe. Certain people (like Rome) may have replaced the seventh day with the first. Others believe that the primary point of the Sabbath was to point to the Son who became Man to save us, that Christ fulfills the Sabbath. Those are two different views.

You guys can now criticize both of them if you like.

 

[Mark C]

So is this just a ghetto for the Hebrew roots guys to preach to their own choir, and argue with each other?

I took it more as a subsection where we can discuss these sorts of topics.

I'm fine with discussion. Just not happy it's Verbotten, at the whim of the Gestapo.

We were sold the latter idea; as one who saw what happened in the LAST ghetto, I was skeptical. Now I'd say it's undeniable.

SO - I'll cut to the chase, Bartato. (Having said all I need to about His Sabbath. He simply never changed it.)

Certain people (like Rome) may have replaced the seventh day with the first. Others believe that the primary point of the Sabbath was to point to the Son who became Man to save us, that Christ fulfills the Sabbath. Those are two different views.

I contend that He meant what He said, and didn't change anything. The Lord of the Sabbath, Yahushua Himself, said so. (that Matthew 5:17-19 thing again, among others.)

So - whatever 'tradition of man' that you generally hold to...

(Here I probably differ somewhat from the Reformed tradition that I generally hold to.)

If you accept their replacement of His Sabbath (and arguably His other Moedim as well) - and that "Jesus fulfilled the LAW" - then on what basis do you reject their Authority to re-write His Instruction about anything else:

Starting with polygyny?

 

[steve]

So is this just a ghetto for the Hebrew roots guys to preach to their own choir, and argue with each other?

I took it more as a subsection where we can discuss these sorts of topics.

Mostly it was place for us to discuss things that bother others. In fact, it was not viewable to anyone outside of the group.

Now it is open, but for what?
So that anyone can come in and tell us that they don’t agree with us? We really don’t need to be told that.

If you have questions, let’s respectfully discuss them. Don’t come in here trying to teach us, most of us have been there and chose to come out of it. We don’t need your thoughts.
Btw; the RCC specifically and purposefully changed the day and is proud that most of the groups that protest them (Protestants) still follow their bastardization of day. Meanwhile, although the true Sabbath is in Yeshuah, the weekly observance is still expected.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Then why are you making a big stink about:

You seem to have a hair up your butt about any slight deviation from what you find as the perfect path.

Huh. I saw it the exact opposite of that….

 

[Bartato]

SO - I'll cut to the chase, Bartato. (Having said all I need to about His Sabbath. He simply never changed it.)

I contend that He meant what He said, and didn't change anything. The Lord of the Sabbath, Yahushua Himself, said so. (that Matthew 5:17-19 thing again, among others.

I know Matthew 5:17-19 is "The Life Verse" and ultimate proof text for you. You quote it rather frequently.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:17-19 NKJ )

I'm not sure this text means what you think it does, seeing that He also said the following.

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit. (John 19:28-30 NKJV)

You believe "till heaven and earth pass away" means that the Law referred to endures forever.

The alternative understanding is that the Law would endure "till all is fulfilled" with that referring to redemption being accomplished by Christ via His sinless life, and substitutionary atonement.

all things were now accomplished
And
It is finished
Sound a lot like
all is fulfilled

 

[Bartato]

Mostly it was place for us to discuss things that bother others. In fact, it was not viewable to anyone outside of the group.

Now it is open, but for what?
So that anyone can come in and tell us that they don’t agree with us? We really don’t need to be told that.

If you have questions, let’s respectfully discuss them. Don’t come in here trying to teach us, most of us have been there and chose to come out of it. We don’t need your thoughts.
Btw; the RCC specifically and purposefully changed the day and is proud that most of the groups that protest them (Protestants) still follow their bastardization of day. Meanwhile, although the true Sabbath is in Yeshuah, the weekly observance is still expected.

Thank you Steve.

 

[The Revolting Man]

How can those who want to understand why He didn't change His mind about marriage - but the 'Church' certainly did it for Him!!! - be so blind as to claim that they couldn't - and didn't - just change the rest of His instruction just as easily?

There’s a thread where I’m trying to talk about just that. Why aren’t you over there?

 

[Mark C]

all things were now accomplished
And
It is finished
Sound a lot like
all is fulfilled

No doubt, and it's all VERY 'catholic' - it is the heart of their doctrine that enables "apostolic succession" and the 'vicar of christ' to re-write what He said He would NOT.

So - again - if you buy that - why can they NOT re-write marriage, food, and replace His Sabbaths, and even re-name His Resurrection after a pagan fertility goddess?

By the way, Ezekiel's Two Sticks are NOT yet "echad" (or we wouldn't have to be in the ghetto!) and read Jeremiah 31:31. Is it still necessary to "teach"? Because "everyone" knows Him? Have you see network TV lately?

I know - I say the logic is simple. It's an "and" conjunction in Matthew 5:17. And if He's coming back - "all" is not fulfilled. But if "Heaven and earth" still exist - and they do - then it doesn't matter. He STILL didn't change one yod or tiddle.

But the entire Roman Edifice depends on that twisting.

Again: If 'all' is fulfilled, and 'the LAW is done away with' - what basis do you have for picking out "marriage" for special treatment?

 

[Mark C]

There’s a thread where I’m trying to talk about just that. Why aren’t you over there?

'Cause you are. And my lack of trust is obvious. You can censor anywhere, of course. And have shown no integrity regardless.

(And you might be the only one able to know whether I was, or was not!)

 

[Mark C]

I know Matthew 5:17-19 is "The Life Verse" and ultimate proof text for you. You quote it rather frequently.

Actually, while I DO quote it, "the Life Verse" is in Deuteronomy chapter 30 (twice, actually), but especially v. 19 - and it has those SAME Two Witnesses!

And there's Deuteronomy chapter 7, and 12, and 13, which all set the stage for Yahushua, and tell us how to identify the fake, and - perhaps - THE clincher, Proverbs 28:9:

"He that turneth away his ear from hearing torah, even his prayer shall be abomination."


(After over a decade of such 'discussion' - THAT was the one that turned my own father's heart.)

 

[Mark C]

That said, what convinced me was NOT a single verse, but the totality, and the consistency.