Taller on my knees
Member
Congratulations! While it will be challenging for some, I pray it will be well received. May His hand and anointing be upon you during this study.
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Some help reviewing a bible study
- Thread starter UntoldGlory
- Start date
Thanks Tomk (yay for acronyms!), that's pretty much what I've been praying too. I may have added in something along the lines of "and basically please help me not jack it all up"!
That is great news that it was approved! For that to happen God's got His hand in it for sure, something good will certainly come of it.
Update: I arranged a meeting with our head pastor for this morning, just so he wouldn't get blind sided if he ends up with a bunch of emails after the poly study night. I know the study got approved already, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't just "slipping through" and would seem like I was trying to get away with something later.
Had a great talk with him. He admits he's never really dug into the scriptures on it, but he doesn't have any issue with it being studied or anything. He actually really agreed with me that coming from the mindset of poly being acceptable makes some stuff in the Bible a lot more meaningful. My specific example was how Christians often have trouble feeling "special" to God, but that when we look at the epitome of romantic scripture, Song of Solomon, we see that even a mere human is capable of feeling such love and passion for many, many wives (SoS 5), and that his new bride is still special and unique. How much more so is Christ able to see our unique beauty and love us? Of course, I clarified that I don't think any man alive currently could really handle that, just like no man alive has the strength of Samson!
Anyway, the meeting went really well, and while I doubt we'll become a "polygamous church" anytime soon, I do feel that good groundwork has been laid.
Had a great talk with him. He admits he's never really dug into the scriptures on it, but he doesn't have any issue with it being studied or anything. He actually really agreed with me that coming from the mindset of poly being acceptable makes some stuff in the Bible a lot more meaningful. My specific example was how Christians often have trouble feeling "special" to God, but that when we look at the epitome of romantic scripture, Song of Solomon, we see that even a mere human is capable of feeling such love and passion for many, many wives (SoS 5), and that his new bride is still special and unique. How much more so is Christ able to see our unique beauty and love us? Of course, I clarified that I don't think any man alive currently could really handle that, just like no man alive has the strength of Samson!
Anyway, the meeting went really well, and while I doubt we'll become a "polygamous church" anytime soon, I do feel that good groundwork has been laid.
Taller on my knees
Member
Ditto!
Without yet having read either FollowingHim's pamphlet or Andrew's article, here's one possible comment re Timothy's & Titus's ''one wife":
Think of these passages as job descriptions in the want ads. They state minimum qualifications. No qualified applicant will be turned away for being too well qualified. Imagine the ad saying that one year of experience is required in a specific skill, but the applicant being turned away for having 3 years' experience! Or a requirement of having supervised a staff of 3, but disqualified for having had a staff of 7! To me, it suddenly makes sense.
If you are looking for a sorta lite strategy by which to introduce poly in one session, here's an idea:
Mention new programs such as Sister Wives. Observe that PM is increasingly in the media and public eye, and isn't restricted to Mormons. Muslims, ... And even some Christians are openly practicing or at least advocating for it. Elicit initial comments.
Then ask, "What would your, what SHOULD our reaction be if King David and a few of his wives were resurrected and showed up at church next Sabbath/Sunday? After all, this is a prominent Bible figure, a man after God's own heart, author of a good chunk of Scripture. Would we welcome him/them to worship with us? Sing one of his psalms as originally written? Share from the pulpit? After all, we READ his writings from the pulpit & siñg them regularly.
"Or would/should we turn him/them away as heretics? Maybe tell them that plural marriage is wrong and immoral? Using what scripture as justification? How might he answer if we tried 'correcting' him?"
With the emphasis on "how should we react to others", it seems likely that a good initial lite level conversation might ensue, with interest developing to study further as more questions get raised then can be explored in the one setting.
Think of these passages as job descriptions in the want ads. They state minimum qualifications. No qualified applicant will be turned away for being too well qualified. Imagine the ad saying that one year of experience is required in a specific skill, but the applicant being turned away for having 3 years' experience! Or a requirement of having supervised a staff of 3, but disqualified for having had a staff of 7! To me, it suddenly makes sense.
If you are looking for a sorta lite strategy by which to introduce poly in one session, here's an idea:
Mention new programs such as Sister Wives. Observe that PM is increasingly in the media and public eye, and isn't restricted to Mormons. Muslims, ... And even some Christians are openly practicing or at least advocating for it. Elicit initial comments.
Then ask, "What would your, what SHOULD our reaction be if King David and a few of his wives were resurrected and showed up at church next Sabbath/Sunday? After all, this is a prominent Bible figure, a man after God's own heart, author of a good chunk of Scripture. Would we welcome him/them to worship with us? Sing one of his psalms as originally written? Share from the pulpit? After all, we READ his writings from the pulpit & siñg them regularly.
"Or would/should we turn him/them away as heretics? Maybe tell them that plural marriage is wrong and immoral? Using what scripture as justification? How might he answer if we tried 'correcting' him?"
With the emphasis on "how should we react to others", it seems likely that a good initial lite level conversation might ensue, with interest developing to study further as more questions get raised then can be explored in the one setting.
While I am going to bring up modern shows near the start, as a jumping off point, I want to make sure this isn't just me preaching at people. I want it to be reading scriptures and discussion kind of stuff. I will definitely keep those points available at the ready if they would match up to a discussion point. I especially like the David in the modern world one! Thanks!
BikerDude78
New Member
I'm probably way to late to wade into this one but there is a point regarding the reference to Timothy and having only one wife. Bare with me as I lay this out regarding the authority of Paul's writings.
Paul was establishing church doctrine in those scriptures and telling them how a church was to be established and ran with the hierarchy of the church heads and such. Now let's back up about 35-50 years. Saul of Tarsus was a zealot (root word for over zealous) by his own admission, He encountered Christ on the road approx. 18-36 months after the ascension (depending on what source).
Acts chapter 9 lays this out. It also tells of the instructions given to Aninias to receive Saul. When he expressed his fear to the Lord, Jesus told him
Acts 9:13-16
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
Then historically depending on the source Paul the apostle became as much of a zealot for Christ as Saul had been against the Christians, And the letters of instruction were written 35 to 50 years after the incident on the road to Damascus.
According to Christ's own words Paul was chosen to proclaim his name to the Gentiles {Preach the Gospel} You know, immaculate conception, virgin birth, Son of God, died on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for our sins, resurrected on the third day, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God. OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. Love your neighbor.
What's your point in all of this? you ask. Well from all of my reading throughout the old testament and the profits it is filled with a LOT of "and the angel of the Lord said" and "thus sayeth the Lord" and "God spoke unto". Yet after 35 to 50 years of preaching and so much of his writing, where does Paul give Christ credit for any of his teachings? After all it was as simple as teaching the Gentiles the ways of Christ. There were already 12 disciples spreading the word among the Jews.
So I ask again, where did Paul get his authority to set doctrine and tell people how to live their lives and how many wives to have? Where is he given the authority to stray so far from the teachings that were already in place? I can't find it anywhere. Don't get me wrong, Paul sets some pretty good guidelines for living a wholesome life. But to accept everything he wrote as Gospel isn't supported. I have issue with the way the new testament was canonized and put together by the Bishops for King James. There was a lot included that gives the church a high hand above and beyond anything written as the teachings of Christ.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Paul was establishing church doctrine in those scriptures and telling them how a church was to be established and ran with the hierarchy of the church heads and such. Now let's back up about 35-50 years. Saul of Tarsus was a zealot (root word for over zealous) by his own admission, He encountered Christ on the road approx. 18-36 months after the ascension (depending on what source).
Acts chapter 9 lays this out. It also tells of the instructions given to Aninias to receive Saul. When he expressed his fear to the Lord, Jesus told him
Acts 9:13-16
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
Then historically depending on the source Paul the apostle became as much of a zealot for Christ as Saul had been against the Christians, And the letters of instruction were written 35 to 50 years after the incident on the road to Damascus.
According to Christ's own words Paul was chosen to proclaim his name to the Gentiles {Preach the Gospel} You know, immaculate conception, virgin birth, Son of God, died on the cross as the perfect sacrifice for our sins, resurrected on the third day, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God. OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. Love your neighbor.
What's your point in all of this? you ask. Well from all of my reading throughout the old testament and the profits it is filled with a LOT of "and the angel of the Lord said" and "thus sayeth the Lord" and "God spoke unto". Yet after 35 to 50 years of preaching and so much of his writing, where does Paul give Christ credit for any of his teachings? After all it was as simple as teaching the Gentiles the ways of Christ. There were already 12 disciples spreading the word among the Jews.
So I ask again, where did Paul get his authority to set doctrine and tell people how to live their lives and how many wives to have? Where is he given the authority to stray so far from the teachings that were already in place? I can't find it anywhere. Don't get me wrong, Paul sets some pretty good guidelines for living a wholesome life. But to accept everything he wrote as Gospel isn't supported. I have issue with the way the new testament was canonized and put together by the Bishops for King James. There was a lot included that gives the church a high hand above and beyond anything written as the teachings of Christ.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Does for me anyway.
Taller on my knees
Member
That's a parked webpage.
Taller on my knees
Member
Still showing a parked page for me. I'm using Android. I'll try Chrome in the morning.
mystic: I agree, and I'll pass that on to the guy that owns that site.
TOMK: I tried Chrome and it works for me; this appears to be an Android issue (so far). I'll be interested to see if Chrome works on your end.
Both Chrome and Firefox make the "%20" substitution for the space and process the request properly. For the record, so does iOS.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I have uploaded an alternate version to another link. So there. It's not exactly the same version that Brian put on his site, because he tweaked mine a bit for the better, but this is the original and it's 99%+ the same document. Let me know if this link works in Android, and TOMK and Jim, I'd still be interested to know if you can get Brian's file open in a different browser.
NB - Disregard the website I loaded this to. It's a pet project that I work on in odd moments which are pretty rare these days. Puts a whole new spin on "work in progress". Maybe someday....
DISCLAIMER: I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but this is a piece originally written to a friend who is himself sort of a sarcastic, snarky, punster of a guy, and I was really irritated by the overall lameness of the piece I was refuting, so if it times I come across as self-indulgent, snarky, or self-righteous, just give me a break. It wasn't really written for general publication, and I wouldn't write it the same way today, anyway. I was in a mood, and I was writing to a guy that would appreciate the tone—"speaking his language", so to speak. And sometimes it's just fun to rant. I've shared this with some BF'ers because I think among friends and sympathetic readers it's a useful review of all the various arguments and counter-arguments, but I wouldn't advise that you share this with anyone you're trying to persuade to change their thinking, it's just not the right attitude. Take the arguments and put them in your words. And of course, let me know if you see anything you disagree with.
TOMK: I tried Chrome and it works for me; this appears to be an Android issue (so far). I'll be interested to see if Chrome works on your end.
Both Chrome and Firefox make the "%20" substitution for the space and process the request properly. For the record, so does iOS.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I have uploaded an alternate version to another link. So there. It's not exactly the same version that Brian put on his site, because he tweaked mine a bit for the better, but this is the original and it's 99%+ the same document. Let me know if this link works in Android, and TOMK and Jim, I'd still be interested to know if you can get Brian's file open in a different browser.
NB - Disregard the website I loaded this to. It's a pet project that I work on in odd moments which are pretty rare these days. Puts a whole new spin on "work in progress". Maybe someday....
DISCLAIMER: I think I mentioned this elsewhere, but this is a piece originally written to a friend who is himself sort of a sarcastic, snarky, punster of a guy, and I was really irritated by the overall lameness of the piece I was refuting, so if it times I come across as self-indulgent, snarky, or self-righteous, just give me a break. It wasn't really written for general publication, and I wouldn't write it the same way today, anyway. I was in a mood, and I was writing to a guy that would appreciate the tone—"speaking his language", so to speak. And sometimes it's just fun to rant. I've shared this with some BF'ers because I think among friends and sympathetic readers it's a useful review of all the various arguments and counter-arguments, but I wouldn't advise that you share this with anyone you're trying to persuade to change their thinking, it's just not the right attitude. Take the arguments and put them in your words. And of course, let me know if you see anything you disagree with.