Statement of Focus for Biblical Families

[JudahYAHites]

I planned to read this thread and not respond but since my name was mentioned here I am.

I am very new to this platform so hopefully a fresh perspective from a newbie, may, I hope, be of value to this conversation.

What may be surprising to many is that I actually agree with much of what @nathan has written in the statement of focus.
The ongoing success of any type of organisation needs focus direction and order...

HOWEVER...

The manner in which that is implemented is of utmost importance.

The fact of the matter is that no one can control who joins this platform, unless one implements a vetting system (which would be untenable), or, where they are in their walk with Christ, and it is a certainty that conversations that some do not like will come up as a simple part of PM dialogue whoever likes it or not.

Again as a newbie on this platform, I joined hoping that I would find somewhere that was indeed focused with like minded people regarding polygyny, I have enjoyed many conversation interactions, on here, however, my experience so far has been mainly one of disappointment marred by egos, narrow mindedness and pettiness.

I am in London UK with no one who even teaches what I teach regarding biblical marriage (let alone anything else) anywhere around, not even to have a coffee and chat with, so this platform is a place I can engage with men who I believe have a desire like I do, to lead their homes as the image and glory of YAH God that we are created to be.

I am not going to name names but there are some on here who just by reading what and how they write I would enjoy sitting and having a conversation with, not because we agree, but because I respect what they say, simply from a man's point of view, and they are not necessarily torah keepers in fact I know for a fact some doctrinal beliefs are opposed to mine, BUT, I know they have a desire to please our father in heaven, that's enough for me to break bread and fellowship, not whether they keep torah or not or have the same doctrinal viewpoint.

For the record I knew about and lived polygyny before Torah.

I do not know how you guys set things up, and I have no idea who is who really, but, seeming there is a non torah and torah division of some sort, is there Torah keeping representation within the admin etc team that would help provide some sort of balance with regards to PM discussions and keeping balance whether non torah admins agree on Torah or not ? Maybe there is I have no idea.

Some Torah keepers may think of me as being flaky because of what I have just written and not taking a harder stance, but I just know where YaHushuWaH / Jesus has brought me from, to where I am now, and I understand some are on milk while some are eating strong meat while there are also some enjoying soup at the moment.

This prayer has helped me from day one and will continue to help me, hopefully it will help all who read it gain a more balanced perspective on our reliance on him as our conversations, dialogues and interactions continue.

Psalm 86:11-13 KJV — Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore. For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Shalom Love and Blessings

 

[The Revolting Man]

That kind of 'logic' would fit right in with the Biden Regime and the Speech Police. And "Free Speech Zones," too - which some of us remember well before BF as well.

Mark I have 15 children. I can play this game all day. Your scorn not withstanding, debates about Torah will be moderated off of the forum. It will be done behind the scenes and no one will ever even know. There will be no exceptions made. I think even you will grow to appreciate the new tone. You’re welcome!

 

[The Revolting Man]

I appreciate this ministry, and more so the people who have interacted here to share their wisdom and experiences. This forum is not a local church and - as part of its intended purpose - is too committed to neutrality. This forum, while prioritizing things other than the whole truth, is still profitable - for now. Primarily as a way to meet fellow brothers in the faith, which I hope to do in person as soon as I can attend a retreat.

I would recommend that if the forum is to begin shutting down conversations outside of the specific topic of marriage, that it NOT shut down conversations about aspects of said topic that some members find unpalatable.

But begin to censor what you will. And if that includes some of my posts, I will not be the one to worry. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Oh no one is suppressing the truth. We are focusing on those aspects of the truth that we specifically feel called to promulgate. Peter and Paul had different ministry focuses from each other. And BibFam has its own ministry focus.

And it’s not like there isn’t a metric boat load of information on Torah keeping on the forum. We’re just done hacking at each other over it anymore.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I planned to read this thread and not respond but since my name was mentioned here I am.

I am very new to this platform so hopefully a fresh perspective from a newbie, may, I hope, be of value to this conversation.

What may be surprising to many is that I actually agree with much of what @nathan has written in the statement of focus.
The ongoing success of any type of organisation needs focus direction and order...

HOWEVER...

The manner in which that is implemented is of utmost importance.

The fact of the matter is that no one can control who joins this platform, unless one implements a vetting system (which would be untenable), or, where they are in their walk with Christ, and it is a certainty that conversations that some do not like will come up as a simple part of PM dialogue whoever likes it or not.

Again as a newbie on this platform, I joined hoping that I would find somewhere that was indeed focused with like minded people regarding polygyny, I have enjoyed many conversation interactions, on here, however, my experience so far has been mainly one of disappointment marred by egos, narrow mindedness and pettiness.

I am in London UK with no one who even teaches what I teach regarding biblical marriage (let alone anything else) anywhere around, not even to have a coffee and chat with, so this platform is a place I can engage with men who I believe have a desire like I do, to lead their homes as the image and glory of YAH God that we are created to be.

I am not going to name names but there are some on here who just by reading what and how they write I would enjoy sitting and having a conversation with, not because we agree, but because I respect what they say, simply from a man's point of view, and they are not necessarily torah keepers in fact I know for a fact some doctrinal beliefs are opposed to mine, BUT, I know they have a desire to please our father in heaven, that's enough for me to break bread and fellowship, not whether they keep torah or not or have the same doctrinal viewpoint.

For the record I knew about and lived polygyny before Torah.

I do not know how you guys set things up, and I have no idea who is who really, but, seeming there is a non torah and torah division of some sort, is there Torah keeping representation within the admin etc team that would help provide some sort of balance with regards to PM discussions and keeping balance whether non torah admins agree on Torah or not ? Maybe there is I have no idea.

Some Torah keepers may think of me as being flaky because of what I have just written and not taking a harder stance, but I just know where YaHushuWaH / Jesus has brought me from, to where I am now, and I understand some are on milk while some are eating strong meat while there are also some enjoying soup at the moment.

This prayer has helped me from day one and will continue to help me, hopefully it will help all who read it gain a more balanced perspective on our reliance on him as our conversations, dialogues and interactions continue.

Psalm 86:11-13 KJV — Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name. I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore. For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Shalom Love and Blessings

There are many Torah keepers in leadership. @steve has kept Torah for many years and sits on the board of the organization. @PeteR is a recognized leader in Torah circles with an international reach, and I am a Torah keeper. We have much representation among the decision makers here.

 

[JudahYAHites]

There are many Torah keepers in leadership. @steve has kept Torah for many years and sits on the board of the organization. @PeteR is a recognized leader in Torah circles with an international reach, and I am a Torah keeper. We have much representation among the decision makers here.

Thanks for your response and clarification

 

[Tamara]

But begin to censor what you will. And if that includes some of my posts, I will not be the one to worry. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Calling down the wrath of God towards men who are just clarifying the focus and intent of the ministry sounds about as antichrist as a person can get. But what do I know.

 

[Mark C]

I am well aware that you see Torah-keeping as an absolutely crucial aspect of faith, and you see your life's mission as being to promote this to the world. That is fine and I admire your dedication. There's just a time and a place for everything.

You're aware of that primarily for one reason, Samuel: There was a time when this forum did not censor aspects of His Word that were meat. Well, SOME of them, at least.

You almost certainly were not aware of Many of the other places where

...that particular message is available for any who want to hear it.

Nor were the vast majority of the others who have found such discussions productive, albeit noisy perhaps, here.

I was banned, exiled, both voluntarily and in-, for years here. Most, but not all on BF, have simply not been around long enough to even remember that time. But there's a reason why I don't do YouTube, or 2Facebook, or Twitter, or any of the other Big Brother-cojoined Public-Private Partners. NONE of what I see as "my...

...life's mission as being to promote...

is permitted there. From "male and female He created them" - but Big Brother will now FIX! - to marriage, to honest weights, is permitted there. And the world is literally coming apart at the seams (well deserved!) as a result. (And I need not mention the 'acrimony' is such "non-marriage" threads as "Russia Invades Ukraine," the "Wuhan Coronavirus" [are we still allowed to tell people that the Zyklon-B injected, mandated or not, just might destroy their immune system, or kill them?] or even "Random Comments." Do you know how many people may have been "offended" there and never returned? (Some may have just died, I guess.)

Oops. That same Messiah Who didn't change His own Word also warned that He would "offend" many...

Which reminds me: I've fought against censorship and "every form of Tyranny over the mind of man," for even longer than I understood the rest of His Word. But that guy was kinda divisive, too.

I watched Chris Wray "testiLie" his ass off this week. Almost like perjury is in the job description for running the AmeriKan Gestapo now. But is sorrows me to see how pervasive that mentality of thought control has become.

I think BF has again moved down the path of forgetting what the word "midrash" means.

Edit: Typo corrected.

 

[steve]

I know that it is not a complete parallel in any way, but some similarities between where we are at and the position of the apostles in Acts 15.
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

To the non-Torah folks, I apologize for using this situation as it probably comes across as a Torah argument. My aim is to show the Torah folk a Scriptural example of dialing it back, since they are the ones who seem the most disturbed at the present stance of the leadership here.

 

[frederick]

Statement of Focus for Biblical Families

Every so often in any organization it becomes necessary to consider where you are, how you got there, and if a course correction of any magnitude is necessary. That’s where Biblical Families is right now. After prayer and deliberation, we think some changes are needed, and that the result will better serve the core mission God has given us: the support of Biblical Patriarchal families, including those families with more than one wife. Note the emphasis on “patriarchal” – while we believe that God may call a man to zero, one, or more wives, we feel certain that all His earthly sons are called to live as Men who lead and love following His own example – and this is patriarchy. We think the biggest battle we face is not over plural marriage but over the near-complete destruction of Biblical patriarchy, both in Western culture, and in the vast majority of the church. We are aware this focus is likely to make us even more of a target than plural marriage does.

We also want to point out what our focus is NOT: it is not on any particular theological position beyond the Gospel, including debate thereof. While we respect, and even enjoy, that we have folks who participate at Biblical Families from many backgrounds and traditions, it’s important that these differences do not become divisive to the core purpose God has given us: Patriarchal Biblical families and marriage. Lately, it’s become more evident that debate of these differences has become a distraction to our online forum. We have heard from more than a few folks who have left the forum (over the years and recently) over ongoing debates, particularly debates between those brothers who feel led to some form of Torah Observance / Hebrew Roots and those who do not. This is a distraction from our purpose, and when people are leaving over this, it’s time to make a correction. It is now our intention to put an end to these debates. Personal attacks and ridicule are out-of-bounds as well. This means a change in moderation goals, and some new moderators joining the team, as Samuel cannot be expected to keep an eye on everything that is posted. We would ask that those who participate regularly help in this regard: if you see anything that you think is potentially problematic, use the Report button on a post, just to highlight it (this is only visible to moderators, and they will have the final decision on what happens). Moderation is not a strict set of rules, and will necessarily evolve in practice. If not having this outlet for debate at Biblical Families is disappointing to you, we can point you to other online forums where you can discuss/debate any particular theological issue. We can’t keep our focus and be all things to all people.

We restate that our bond at Biblical Families is the bond of brotherhood in the saving grace of the Gospel of Jesus/Yeshua. We want to be clear that all those who consider themselves brothers and sisters in the Gospel are welcome to participate at Biblical Families, both online and at retreats, and in any community discussion. We’d ask you to understand the major purpose for the online forums: to be a place of learning and growth for those who God is calling to live patriarchally or to plural marriage. It is not for anyone to promote their specific theological distinctives.

Finding the line between what is OK and what is not, is something the moderators will have to do, and will need some grace for – thank you for extending it to them, just as the Father has extended it to all of us.

------------------------------

Not coincidently, we are happy to announce that 2 new moderators are joining the team to help in this mission. The first is not ‘new’ at all, and we are happy to have Zec (@The Revolting Man) joining to help out, as well Lance (@ABlessedMan). Both gentlemen will bring their unique point-of-view to the team, and we believe the forum will benefit from this. We want to take this opportunity to also thank our chief moderator of many years, Samuel (@FollowingHim), for his often single-handed effort in keeping the BF forum on-track. The forum as a community would be a much less valuable place without his ongoing time and attention.

Biblical Families Board and Staff

Thank you very much @nathan for this clarification. Much needed and much appreciated. Its necessary for ministry organisations to avoid getting sidetracked from their specific core mission. For those who want to pursue a different direction they can join a group or ministry that caters to that interest. For me and my wives I'm delighted you are keeping the ministry focused on Biblical Families, and with that, biblical marriage. We are super grateful for the wisdom and support we've received here and from the likes of Samuel personally. Blessings and Shalom to you all.

 

[Mark C]

...debates about Torah will be moderated off of the forum. It will be done behind the scenes and no one will ever even know. There will be no exceptions made. I think even you will grow to appreciate the new tone. You’re welcome!

"He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
- The very last line of George Orwell's, 1984.


PS> For the record, I don't "debate about Torah". I teach His Instruction, all of it, as Written.

 

[Mark C]

I know that it is not a complete parallel in any way, but some similarities between where we are at and the position of the apostles in Acts 15.
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God...

To the non-Torah folks, I apologize for using this situation as it probably comes across as a Torah argument. My aim is to show the Torah folk a Scriptural example of dialing it back, since they are expressing the most outrage at the present stance of the leadership here.

I am personally not "outraged," Steve. Just 'disturbed'. I've seen where this leads, inevitably, in history, in Scripture, and very personally. *

And that very same example occurred to me. Except, you [prudently?] chose to skip v. 21:
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Question: Is THAT now verbotten?

Picking and choosing from His Truth invariably ends up with...
...less.




----------------------------
* And that obviously includes here. And you have, too, as few others would know.

Perhaps "this time will be different." But I've heard that from the anti-torah anti-speech types who
say the same thing about their latest communist revolution, too. ("It just hasn't been done RIGHT.") Color me skeptical. In both cases, I've tried to speak while I can, where I can. And there are less such by the day.

PS> I never met Voltaire, much less 'debated Torah' with him. I suspect we'd agree on almost nothing there. BUT... I can get along with the man when it comes to speech. Can we be 'civil'? Certainly. But if we can't disagree, and let iron sharpen iron, there's no discussion. And no point.

 

[steve]

Except, you [prudently?] chose to skip v. 21:
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

You may want to reread what I wrote, it was included.

I am personally not "outraged," Steve. Just 'disturbed'.

I like that word better and will correct it.
I couldn’t think of the right word at the time.

 

[ABlessedMan]

I hesitate to write, but I believe that one thing should be made clear. While much of the "ink spilt" in this discussion regards Torah Observant believers, Nathan's statement on moderation and keeping fellowship also pertains to those who have strong feelings that oppose Torah Observance. What Nathan is striving for (correct me if I'm wrong, please) is for order and decency (on both sides).
I don't believe that the moderation team will censor serious discussions of difficult passages. . . but discussion of difficult passages does not mean that anyone (Torah or non-Torah) should be a jerk about it. Civility and respect should be rooted in our common love for the LORD.

To Torah Observant folk . . . to be as clear as I can . . . If someone belittles or disparages you because of Torah Observance, this should not be so. . . and it will be addressed. If we don't catch it on our own, don't hesitate to contact anyone in leadership. There have been breaches on both sides of the community, this is an opportunity to get us back toward order and a beneficial witness.

 

[Mark C]

You may want to reread what I wrote, it was included.

Apologies. You are correct...

 

[The Revolting Man]

You're aware of that primarily for one reason, Samuel: There was a time when this forum did not censor aspects of His Word that were meat. Well, SOME of them, at least.

You almost certainly were not aware of Many of the other places where

Nor were the vast majority of the others who have found such discussions productive, albeit noisy perhaps, here.

I was banned, exiled, both voluntarily and in-, for years here. Most, but not all on BF, have simply not been around long enough to even remember that time. But there's a reason why I don't do YouTube, or 2Facebook, or Twitter, or any of the other Big Brother-cojoined Public-Private Partners. NONE of what I see as "my...

is permitted there. From "male and female He created them" - but Big Brother will now FIX! - to marriage, to honest weights, is permitted there. And the world is literally coming apart at the seams (well deserved!) as a result. (And I need not mention the 'acrimony' is such "non-marriage" threads as "Russia Invades Ukraine," the "Wuhan Coronavirus" [are we still allowed to tell people that the Zyklon-B injected, mandated or not, just might destroy their immune system, or kill them?] or even "Random Comments." Do you know how many people may have been "offended" there and never returned? (Some may have just died, I guess.)

Oops. That same Messiah Who didn't change His own Word also warned that He would "offend" many...

Which reminds me: I've fought against censorship and "every form of Tyranny over the mind of man," for even longer than I understood the rest of His Word. But that guy was kinda divisive, too.

I watched Chris Wray "testiLie" his ass off this week. Almost like perjury is in the job description for running the AmeriKan Gestapo now. But is sorrows me to see how pervasive that mentality of thought control has become.

I think BF has again moved down the path of forgetting what the word "midrash" means.

Edit: Typo corrected.

In all fairness, I never knew what midrash means.

 

[The Revolting Man]

I know that it is not a complete parallel in any way, but some similarities between where we are at and the position of the apostles in Acts 15.
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

To the non-Torah folks, I apologize for using this situation as it probably comes across as a Torah argument. My aim is to show the Torah folk a Scriptural example of dialing it back, since they are the ones who seem the most disturbed at the present stance of the leadership here.

Dear lord you’re brilliant. I never saw that. Score.

 

[The Revolting Man]

"He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
- The very last line of George Orwell's, 1984.


PS> For the record, I don't "debate about Torah". I teach His Instruction, all of it, as Written.

Not here you don’t.

 

[Mark C]

Not here you don’t.

Is that supposed to mean 'not any more?' Or it is just intended to be insulting and noxious, as a proof of what this "change" is supposed to be?

 

[The Revolting Man]

Is that supposed to mean 'not any more?' Or it is just intended to be insulting and noxious, as a proof of what this "change" is supposed to be?

Both, you’ve never taught the truth as far as I can see. You’re always being cryptic and evasive because you’re too scared to be wrong or get contradicted and you’re far more interested in being sarcastic than persuasive. You’re one of the least effective communicators here because of your fragility. It’s a very common failing of men who consider themselves educated.

And also, even that isn’t going to be tolerated anymore. Which is a shame because you had gotten much better lately. You could be a valuable contributor if you’d switch to decaf and stop trying to bombast everyone in to not disagreeing with you.

 

[steve]

I believe that all of the arguments have been made from each side. There is nothing new under the sun.
I am reminded of an old joke:
A man has just been installed at his new residence in a prison when someone calls out “47!”, upon which much laughter ensues. A bit later another calls out “27!”, with another round of laughter following it.
So he asks his cell mate what is up with the numbers?
The guy tells him that all of the jokes had gone around so many times that they had just given them numbers. Hollering out a number reminded everyone of that specific joke, and they continued to enjoy them.
So the new guy hauls off and hollers “56!”, total silence. He figures that there maybe isn’t that many jokes, so he hollers out “12!”, still nothing.
He asks his cell mate what was the problem.
The answer? “Some guys know how to tell a joke, and some guys can’t”.

All that to say, maybe when questions come up we just refer back to the place in “the stacks” where that point was debated.
This way we would “15……and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:”
Teaching without refighting the debate multiple times per week. The teachable would look into it and decide on their own.