This! Amen!
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Strength, wisdom, and a soft heart
- Thread starter DeathIsNotTheEnd
- Start date
Just an update for everyone.
After much talk and painful discussions:
1. The friend feels that she needs to just be friends for now. The feelings are there, but she needs to seek God in it. She is remaining in prayer, and I am happy being just friends (as I always was). I did reassure her, though, that whatever she decides, whatever God tells her (to be with me/wait for me, or to give it up), that I will be glad either way, and if the day ever comes that she DOES decide to pursue this path, I may ask her to wait, but I will always be here with open arms.
2. The wife felt that I was trying to force her to make a jump to an ideal (of her feeling confident in this leading, of her ability to control her gut reactions,e tc) which she was not ready for. We both apologized for hurtful things said, and she reiterated a desire to pray about this and ask God to bring her heart around, or speak to her more clearly if this is the road for us. I realized that I was not waiting on God, but just being impatient with her inability to 'board the train', which was not fair to her (would have made her pointlessly miserable when God leading her in this would be so much better), nor to the friend (who would have entered a very unsafe home situation). For both their sakes, and my own, I do feel that God needs to speak to her before I take a second wife (and the second wife as well!). Some will disagree here, but that is what I've seen in my own life. When we disagreed about place-of-calling (she'd grown up, after having a vision, being called to Mexico...I felt strongly called to Japan), we went through a similar thing. We argued, discussed, debated...I brought up the 'leading as a husband' arguments, and her answer then as now was the same: she would follow, but would be devastated if God did not prepare her first. A fair point, and I love her with all my heart, so that is the furthest thing from my ideal. When we finally had agreed to trust that God would bring us together in it (neither of us neccesarily changing our wants!), He did speak to her, and tell her to go with me to Japan, and I saw in that moment a 180* about-face in her energy and joy, and now she is just as if not more excited than I am about Japan. So I know that God can and will do so again if it is His will. Hopefully it doesn't take as long (4 years), but I will wait. Because having her 'on board' is worth the wait. With God's Grace on her to be a loving helpmeet, I can move mountains
After much talk and painful discussions:
1. The friend feels that she needs to just be friends for now. The feelings are there, but she needs to seek God in it. She is remaining in prayer, and I am happy being just friends (as I always was). I did reassure her, though, that whatever she decides, whatever God tells her (to be with me/wait for me, or to give it up), that I will be glad either way, and if the day ever comes that she DOES decide to pursue this path, I may ask her to wait, but I will always be here with open arms.
2. The wife felt that I was trying to force her to make a jump to an ideal (of her feeling confident in this leading, of her ability to control her gut reactions,e tc) which she was not ready for. We both apologized for hurtful things said, and she reiterated a desire to pray about this and ask God to bring her heart around, or speak to her more clearly if this is the road for us. I realized that I was not waiting on God, but just being impatient with her inability to 'board the train', which was not fair to her (would have made her pointlessly miserable when God leading her in this would be so much better), nor to the friend (who would have entered a very unsafe home situation). For both their sakes, and my own, I do feel that God needs to speak to her before I take a second wife (and the second wife as well!). Some will disagree here, but that is what I've seen in my own life. When we disagreed about place-of-calling (she'd grown up, after having a vision, being called to Mexico...I felt strongly called to Japan), we went through a similar thing. We argued, discussed, debated...I brought up the 'leading as a husband' arguments, and her answer then as now was the same: she would follow, but would be devastated if God did not prepare her first. A fair point, and I love her with all my heart, so that is the furthest thing from my ideal. When we finally had agreed to trust that God would bring us together in it (neither of us neccesarily changing our wants!), He did speak to her, and tell her to go with me to Japan, and I saw in that moment a 180* about-face in her energy and joy, and now she is just as if not more excited than I am about Japan. So I know that God can and will do so again if it is His will. Hopefully it doesn't take as long (4 years), but I will wait. Because having her 'on board' is worth the wait. With God's Grace on her to be a loving helpmeet, I can move mountains
Will continue to pray for you both. In the meantime, it helps tremendously if you can meet some regular, down to earth folks who are plural families. If you can, come to the retreat. If you cant do that, try to meet face to face with a plural family. For us, Andrew’s family was that first meet and we have made forever friends.
Eternal Dreamer, your update and attitude are beautiful. I've never met you and your lovely wife, but what a testimony of God's grace in your life and hers, as well as your patient, enduring love for her. Have you read my posts on the thread "Can God speak differently to the man and to the wife" or something like that--I'm close--maybe not the exact words of the thread title. You have given a good example of what I was sharing. I do hope you will consider attending the upcoming retreat. I've heard other men say almost the exact same thing as your last statement. We ladies think and process so differently that you men--imagine thatJust an update for everyone.
After much talk and painful discussions:
1. The friend feels that she needs to just be friends for now. The feelings are there, but she needs to seek God in it. She is remaining in prayer, and I am happy being just friends (as I always was). I did reassure her, though, that whatever she decides, whatever God tells her (to be with me/wait for me, or to give it up), that I will be glad either way, and if the day ever comes that she DOES decide to pursue this path, I may ask her to wait, but I will always be here with open arms.
2. The wife felt that I was trying to force her to make a jump to an ideal (of her feeling confident in this leading, of her ability to control her gut reactions,e tc) which she was not ready for. We both apologized for hurtful things said, and she reiterated a desire to pray about this and ask God to bring her heart around, or speak to her more clearly if this is the road for us. I realized that I was not waiting on God, but just being impatient with her inability to 'board the train', which was not fair to her (would have made her pointlessly miserable when God leading her in this would be so much better), nor to the friend (who would have entered a very unsafe home situation). For both their sakes, and my own, I do feel that God needs to speak to her before I take a second wife (and the second wife as well!). Some will disagree here, but that is what I've seen in my own life. When we disagreed about place-of-calling (she'd grown up, after having a vision, being called to Mexico...I felt strongly called to Japan), we went through a similar thing. We argued, discussed, debated...I brought up the 'leading as a husband' arguments, and her answer then as now was the same: she would follow, but would be devastated if God did not prepare her first. A fair point, and I love her with all my heart, so that is the furthest thing from my ideal. When we finally had agreed to trust that God would bring us together in it (neither of us neccesarily changing our wants!), He did speak to her, and tell her to go with me to Japan, and I saw in that moment a 180* about-face in her energy and joy, and now she is just as if not more excited than I am about Japan. So I know that God can and will do so again if it is His will. Hopefully it doesn't take as long (4 years), but I will wait. Because having her 'on board' is worth the wait. With God's Grace on her to be a loving helpmeet, I can move mountains
, but it is always refreshing to see God in a man.Eternal Dreamer, your update and attitude are beautiful. I've never met you and your lovely wife, but what a testimony of God's grace in your life and hers, as well as your patient, enduring love for her. Have you read my posts on the thread "Can God speak differently to the man and to the wife" or something like that--I'm close--maybe not the exact words of the thread title. You have given a good example of what I was sharing. I do hope you will consider attending the upcoming retreat. I've heard other men say almost the exact same thing as your last statement. We ladies think and process so differently that you men--imagine that
Thank you
I saw the thread but dont remember which ere your posts specifically, I'll look
The wife had a nice conversation with me tonight about this. She is doing a good job, just looking for some encouragement/word from the Lord. She acknowledges that her reaction to this is quite different compared to how happy she is to follow me in all other decisions, and acknowledges there is a disconnect between her head thoughts about it and her gut reaction feelings, and she just asked for time for that, which I am happy to give
@andrew, after hearing @Verifyveritas76 talk again about the Adown at your house last year, something inside of me clicked. When we left your house after our first visit, I knew I needed to do something about it. So I let loose the marriage vows that were spoken between us in ignorance. We needed a biblical vow and not a cultural one. I asked VV76 to be my Adown. (At this point plural marriage wasn’t something that we were going to do, that I knew of).
If this had happened any other way (perhaps my husband bringing it up) I think I would have fought it. I don’t know if my husband was going to ‘ammend our vows’, but it had to happen, and I knew God was speaking to my heart about it!
Realizing what biblical headship is supposed to look like, is a ‘truth that made me free’. It made me free to repent before God and my head(husband), of my cultural deception.
Boy, the culture has the family set up for a tug of war -no one wins and everyone is so distracted by fighting for their right in the home that NOBODY in that home gets to experience true joy and FOLLOWSHIP! The husband can’t FOLLOW the Lord’s leading, the wife can’t FOLLOW the husband, ‘cus that goes against her feelings or he can’t make The Decision to do x,y,z because ‘we’re equall’ and she doesn’t agree. And then there’s the kids...
Let me tell you, when I submitted to him I then realized my FOLLOWSHIP created FELLOWSHIP. It’s like a fellowship I’ve never experienced with my husband before!
This might be to TMI-but, here goes.
As I stated earlier, plural marriage wasn’t in the picture. I was quite hesitant to go meet Andrew’s Family because that would mean I accept what I felt like my husband might want to ‘push me into’. Honestly, that’s where I was- we’re going to meet crazy people and I had to accept their lifestyle. VV76 had told me awhile before we made the visit that plural marriage wasn’t ungodly, a sin, or forbidden by God, but it probably wasn’t for us. Well, okay-it wasn’t for us, we’re just going to have friends that live this way. No problem.
It wasn’t a problem until my @Verifyveritas76 off hand had said something about being okay with another wife. Say what Johnboy!!!
It literally threw me through a loop. I felt like I had the air knocked out of me. I was so mad and hurt. Here’s the thing. I didn’t agree. I asked him how can two walk together, except they agree? I knew he couldn’t submit to me and my ‘not want to’s’, but how did I submit to this crazy selfish concept???
I was in for a roller coaster ride. Part of the problem is, I held to a word he said, as a promise -the “it probably wasn’t for us,” had become a promise in my mind. Ugh!!
He shepherds my heart, listens to me and my crazy fears and concerns. He hasn’t pushed me, he’s continued leading and loving me, we’ve prayed together and he’s shared what he’s found in the Word!! He’s helped me clean off the foundation and rebuild our life on biblical principles!
Throughout our marriage he’s never said ‘I’ will do such n such, but ‘We’ will do such n such. I guess for him it’s been an automatic assumption that I would follow. For me it was easy to follow him, he was logical. He’s never been about him in our marriage, it’s been about us, because we are one. He expected me to follow where he was leading, not drag me there because that’s where we were going, like it or not-caveman style. But this PM thing was viewed by me as a selfish thing, for him and had NOTHING to do with us. I was thinking our life is all about him. Well, it is but now with a different attitude. When you get a hold of your husband’s vision, your life becomes that-his and His....anyway.
For me, I agreed God is okay with plural marriage, BUT I didn’t want it to be a part of MY life. (His still small voice- I am bought with a price, 1 Chor. 6:20), I am no longer my own, came through).
The day I revowed, I agreed to follow, so I choose to follow with love, joy and peace. Even though I don’t prefer the what, I choose to follow The Who, by following my husband.
I choose to put my preferences aside.
I choose to do my best to not be a stumbling block or a lead weight. It’s the conclusion I have come to on how I can walk as in agreement. I have a lot still to deal with, but my joy has been in the fellowship I have with HIM and vv76 through following.
I believe in my submitting, even though I may have a wrinkly disagreement with his choice or direction, following his leadership will most likely iron the wrinkles out. So, following my husband in love with a wrinkle is where I am at.
Wowzers. I’m printing this out and puttin it on a calendar somewhere. Um. Honey, where’s the calendars?
I'd say make the rounds for all the hi-5's and "atta girl!" I really enjoyed reading this and it puts the whipped topping on the cake as I've watched from a distance this saga play out. Being transparent takes courage--you're 10 ft. tall right now!
Ha! Better hope she hasn't hidden all of them.
JKOn a more serious note, VV76, I could not be more proud of you as a hus-band. You've surrounded your tribe with a Godly firmness and yet gentleness that has fostered growth and the freedom to learn. As you stood before the adult SS class and taught on the Adone, your heart was to teach the men, but in so doing, you taught all of us. I could listen to that whole series of lessons again and again and not grow tired of it.
Well Loved Wife's post is yet another example of an answer to the thread ? "Will God speak differently to a man and to his wife?" (IMO) The fact that you had encountered new truth, Well Loved Wife hadn't yet--or at least couldn't embrace that finding--, but as the Adone chose to lead the way Yeshua leads His bride to present her "without spot nor wrinkle".
Thank you VV76 for being that Godly Ish to your Isha. Thank you for standing for truth, though it has cost you dearly. Thank you for your patience in teaching that truth from a Scripture-based perspective vs "I-think-this-is-a-good-idea-so-we're-going-to-experiment-with-this-whether-you-like-it-or-not. You didn't smash her because you could rule with an iron fist, leading by fear. You actively led Well Loved Wife into truth. You listened to her heart, and God listened to yours. Thank you for sharing this truth with me.
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So, @Verifyveritas76 , you gonna share the Adon teaching??
Great words of wisdom Andrew! I really appreciate your knowledge, in site and experiences you share. Thank you!
I am continuing to pray you receive the answers / guidance you are seeking.
Shalom
Any first wives on here who might be willing to talk to her? She needs some help and counsel at the moment. I can give more details in a PM.
Well I am a first wife.. but I am also an only wife at the moment lol, so I don't know if I meet the criteria your looking for. Last summer there was a potential in our lives and so I kind of went through a touch of it. I don't know how helpful I might be, but I am willing to try to help and be encouraging.
Your best bet for first wives are @julieb , @alit53 , and @Ginny. These women are a wealth of advice, knowledge, and love . There are plenty of other women like Rainy and I who are only wives, but I reckon that's not what your wife needs right now, she needs someone with experience in this.
The ladies chat is a fantastic resource. She will need to have her own account to access it. Ali and Julie are normally there each week, as well as plenty of 'only' wives. There's also the odd 2nd and 3rd around also.
Just editing to add that Ginny is not a first wife, but she's absolutely awesome to talk with. She's second or third, I don't know, doesn't really matter.
. There are plenty of other women like Rainy and I who are only wives, but I reckon that's not what your wife needs right now, she needs someone with experience in this.The ladies chat is a fantastic resource. She will need to have her own account to access it. Ali and Julie are normally there each week, as well as plenty of 'only' wives. There's also the odd 2nd and 3rd around also.
Just editing to add that Ginny is not a first wife, but she's absolutely awesome to talk with. She's second or third, I don't know, doesn't really matter.
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If and when vv76 does get the chance, bring your cup of coffee, an empty notebook for notes--you're going to fill it up
, and plan to settle in. There's soooo much and it's amazing truth from Scripture for the family and home. He's quite the history buff so he pulls in all of that and puts it into time lines so you get the full picture along with the paleo Hebrew and modern day Hebrew we have today. Like I said, I could listen to vv76 teach on that for hours!
She is third but your right it doesn't matter cause she is just awesome and that it what matters.
Just beautiful....
Wow EternalDreamer, your story, as well as your heart, your disposition, your desires, fears, and responses are so similar to my own, and I'm nodding, and smiling, (and possibly weeping a little) as I read your posts.
Like you, my revelation of Biblical polygyny came in response to the physical needs and emotional vulnerability of a mutual friend of my wife and I. One difference perhaps is that we live in different cities, so although the three of us spoke on the phone regularly and visited each other as often as we could, the conversations about pm didn't happen so fast.
When I did eventually broach the subject with my wife, it was not pretty. She is tender-hearted and discerning, responsive to the Lord and respectful of my leading. But when she feels threatened, her standard response is aggression, and I copped both barrels. It lasted a week. I stuck it out. It was the worst fight we've ever had and we have some real doozies. We eventually made up and she forbade me from ever mentioning pm again. Despite our friend's obvious needs and the solution of pm, my wife's fear overrode her love for our friend.
I made one more attempt, about 9 months later, thinking to discuss marriage from the biblical perspective and work our way up to Godly plural marriage. It wasn't meant to be an ambush but she received it that way. It was bad. She slapped me. That was almost three years ago, and I've not brought it up again with her since.
We continued to talk to our friend via telephone at least once a week (regular hour+ convos at a time), and visited each other from time to time. Although she's never mentioned it, I know my wife wrestles with jealousy, fear, doubt, etc, when I have a conversation with our friend that she feels left out of. To her credit, she hasn't let it affect the friendship, even if she resists its natural direction (ie pm).
Like Andrew said, each marriage is unique. As much as I wanted to push it, assert my headship, etc, I don't think it would have done much good. I love my wife and don't want to place a burden upon her that she cannot bear. I have to trust the Lord to open her heart to pm, and be ready to have further conversation as she initiates.
EternalDreamer I'm glad your friend had the courage to express her feelings to you and that she now knows your position on plural marriage. It makes things easier. I debated with myself for a long time whether to share my revelation of pm with my friend. I desperately wanted to, but it felt like a betrayal of my wife. I didn't want to 'go behind her back'. I didn't want to hurt her even more. I didn't want to be hurt more than I could bear.
Eventually, earlier this year I did share my revelation of pm privately with my friend, but it was too late. Her emotional pain had built up to a point where it began to poison her faith, her lifestyle, and her relationships. She was unreceptive to the concept of pm and didn't investigate it from a biblical perspective the way she used to do with challenging ideas. I stuck to biblical concepts and didn't make it personal. But I had missed my window. I asked her not to tell my wife about the conversation (to spare us all further pain), and went away to privately grieve.
Over the last few months, my wife and I have watched helplessly as our friend has drifted further away from her first love. She pays lip service to Christ, but self-medicates her loneliness and emotional pain by embracing an ungodly lifestyle of alcohol, bad TV, chat hook ups with inappropriate and/or unavailable men, a weight-loss/fitness obsession, and a workaholic mentality that will kill her. We took our kids on a road trip to visit her this April, and it was awkward and awful. Our stay with her ended in a shouting match between my wife and my friend, and of course my earlier conversation about pm was revealed (I was not present at the time).
My wife sat on that particular nugget for a week before asking me about it. I said it was a revelation from God that I could not and would not deny. Her position hasn't changed: Perhaps it was ok for people in the Bible, she said, but it isn't right/needed today. She still hasn't engaged with the biblical arguments. But at least we didn't end up shouting (or worse), so that's progress (I think?). We talked civily about pm for maybe half an hour, and then not since. I won't bring it up again, but I suspect that it's not far beneath the surface. We haven't spoken to our friend since the argument, and I think we're both avoiding it because to do so opens the possibility of talking about pm again. I feel like perhaps the Lord has closed a door, but I also don't want to abandon our friend even if she is avoiding God. Ugh, what a mess.
What am I trying to say to you through this sad tale? I'm not sure. But here's some thoughts.
* No matter what else happens, I'm eternally grateful that God used my friend to reveal to me the truth of biblical plural marriage. It's a part of me now and impacts my thinking in so many areas.
* It's really hard to know when to take decisive action, and when to patiently wait (often without speaking, often for years) for others to catch up to your revelation. No matter what you do, individuals have free will to react in ways you can't control. Nevertheless, our God is a faithful redeemer.
* Because he loves us, he can turn every situation for our benefit. It may be painful, it may take time, but we are not trapped by our actions (or inactions). Don't beat yourself up about what you did or did not do. Whatever choices you make, if made with pure intentions and a desire to obey, are opportunities for God to bring about his purpose. There's a verse that comes to mind here, something about man taking steps (with limited understanding), but God guiding our way.
You have my deepest sympathy and most heartfelt encouragement. The journey may be long, and the destination's details unclear, but if you make love and patience your constant companions, Heavenly Father will make all thing work for your good.
And to be clear, I love my wife, I love my marriage, I'm satisfied and grateful, and am only ever looking to my Father for guidance on the 'potentional of plurality'
Like you, my revelation of Biblical polygyny came in response to the physical needs and emotional vulnerability of a mutual friend of my wife and I. One difference perhaps is that we live in different cities, so although the three of us spoke on the phone regularly and visited each other as often as we could, the conversations about pm didn't happen so fast.
When I did eventually broach the subject with my wife, it was not pretty. She is tender-hearted and discerning, responsive to the Lord and respectful of my leading. But when she feels threatened, her standard response is aggression, and I copped both barrels. It lasted a week. I stuck it out. It was the worst fight we've ever had and we have some real doozies. We eventually made up and she forbade me from ever mentioning pm again. Despite our friend's obvious needs and the solution of pm, my wife's fear overrode her love for our friend.
I made one more attempt, about 9 months later, thinking to discuss marriage from the biblical perspective and work our way up to Godly plural marriage. It wasn't meant to be an ambush but she received it that way. It was bad. She slapped me. That was almost three years ago, and I've not brought it up again with her since.
We continued to talk to our friend via telephone at least once a week (regular hour+ convos at a time), and visited each other from time to time. Although she's never mentioned it, I know my wife wrestles with jealousy, fear, doubt, etc, when I have a conversation with our friend that she feels left out of. To her credit, she hasn't let it affect the friendship, even if she resists its natural direction (ie pm).
Like Andrew said, each marriage is unique. As much as I wanted to push it, assert my headship, etc, I don't think it would have done much good. I love my wife and don't want to place a burden upon her that she cannot bear. I have to trust the Lord to open her heart to pm, and be ready to have further conversation as she initiates.
EternalDreamer I'm glad your friend had the courage to express her feelings to you and that she now knows your position on plural marriage. It makes things easier. I debated with myself for a long time whether to share my revelation of pm with my friend. I desperately wanted to, but it felt like a betrayal of my wife. I didn't want to 'go behind her back'. I didn't want to hurt her even more. I didn't want to be hurt more than I could bear.
Eventually, earlier this year I did share my revelation of pm privately with my friend, but it was too late. Her emotional pain had built up to a point where it began to poison her faith, her lifestyle, and her relationships. She was unreceptive to the concept of pm and didn't investigate it from a biblical perspective the way she used to do with challenging ideas. I stuck to biblical concepts and didn't make it personal. But I had missed my window. I asked her not to tell my wife about the conversation (to spare us all further pain), and went away to privately grieve.
Over the last few months, my wife and I have watched helplessly as our friend has drifted further away from her first love. She pays lip service to Christ, but self-medicates her loneliness and emotional pain by embracing an ungodly lifestyle of alcohol, bad TV, chat hook ups with inappropriate and/or unavailable men, a weight-loss/fitness obsession, and a workaholic mentality that will kill her. We took our kids on a road trip to visit her this April, and it was awkward and awful. Our stay with her ended in a shouting match between my wife and my friend, and of course my earlier conversation about pm was revealed (I was not present at the time).
My wife sat on that particular nugget for a week before asking me about it. I said it was a revelation from God that I could not and would not deny. Her position hasn't changed: Perhaps it was ok for people in the Bible, she said, but it isn't right/needed today. She still hasn't engaged with the biblical arguments. But at least we didn't end up shouting (or worse), so that's progress (I think?). We talked civily about pm for maybe half an hour, and then not since. I won't bring it up again, but I suspect that it's not far beneath the surface. We haven't spoken to our friend since the argument, and I think we're both avoiding it because to do so opens the possibility of talking about pm again. I feel like perhaps the Lord has closed a door, but I also don't want to abandon our friend even if she is avoiding God. Ugh, what a mess.
What am I trying to say to you through this sad tale? I'm not sure. But here's some thoughts.
* No matter what else happens, I'm eternally grateful that God used my friend to reveal to me the truth of biblical plural marriage. It's a part of me now and impacts my thinking in so many areas.
* It's really hard to know when to take decisive action, and when to patiently wait (often without speaking, often for years) for others to catch up to your revelation. No matter what you do, individuals have free will to react in ways you can't control. Nevertheless, our God is a faithful redeemer.
* Because he loves us, he can turn every situation for our benefit. It may be painful, it may take time, but we are not trapped by our actions (or inactions). Don't beat yourself up about what you did or did not do. Whatever choices you make, if made with pure intentions and a desire to obey, are opportunities for God to bring about his purpose. There's a verse that comes to mind here, something about man taking steps (with limited understanding), but God guiding our way.
You have my deepest sympathy and most heartfelt encouragement. The journey may be long, and the destination's details unclear, but if you make love and patience your constant companions, Heavenly Father will make all thing work for your good.
And to be clear, I love my wife, I love my marriage, I'm satisfied and grateful, and am only ever looking to my Father for guidance on the 'potentional of plurality'
Wow EternalDreamer, your story, as well as your heart, your disposition, your desires, fears, and responses are so similar to my own, and I'm nodding, and smiling, (and possibly weeping a little) as I read your posts.
Like you, my revelation of Biblical polygyny came in response to the physical needs and emotional vulnerability of a mutual friend of my wife and I. One difference perhaps is that we live in different cities, so although the three of us spoke on the phone regularly and visited each other as often as we could, the conversations about pm didn't happen so fast.
When I did eventually broach the subject with my wife, it was not pretty. She is tender-hearted and discerning, responsive to the Lord and respectful of my leading. But when she feels threatened, her standard response is aggression, and I copped both barrels. It lasted a week. I stuck it out. It was the worst fight we've ever had and we have some real doozies. We eventually made up and she forbade me from ever mentioning pm again. Despite our friend's obvious needs and the solution of pm, my wife's fear overrode her love for our friend.
I made one more attempt, about 9 months later, thinking to discuss marriage from the biblical perspective and work our way up to Godly plural marriage. It wasn't meant to be an ambush but she received it that way. It was bad. She slapped me. That was almost three years ago, and I've not brought it up again with her since.
We continued to talk to our friend via telephone at least once a week (regular hour+ convos at a time), and visited each other from time to time. Although she's never mentioned it, I know my wife wrestles with jealousy, fear, doubt, etc, when I have a conversation with our friend that she feels left out of. To her credit, she hasn't let it affect the friendship, even if she resists its natural direction (ie pm).
Like Andrew said, each marriage is unique. As much as I wanted to push it, assert my headship, etc, I don't think it would have done much good. I love my wife and don't want to place a burden upon her that she cannot bear. I have to trust the Lord to open her heart to pm, and be ready to have further conversation as she initiates.
EternalDreamer I'm glad your friend had the courage to express her feelings to you and that she now knows your position on plural marriage. It makes things easier. I debated with myself for a long time whether to share my revelation of pm with my friend. I desperately wanted to, but it felt like a betrayal of my wife. I didn't want to 'go behind her back'. I didn't want to hurt her even more. I didn't want to be hurt more than I could bear.
Eventually, earlier this year I did share my revelation of pm privately with my friend, but it was too late. Her emotional pain had built up to a point where it began to poison her faith, her lifestyle, and her relationships. She was unreceptive to the concept of pm and didn't investigate it from a biblical perspective the way she used to do with challenging ideas. I stuck to biblical concepts and didn't make it personal. But I had missed my window. I asked her not to tell my wife about the conversation (to spare us all further pain), and went away to privately grieve.
Over the last few months, my wife and I have watched helplessly as our friend has drifted further away from her first love. She pays lip service to Christ, but self-medicates her loneliness and emotional pain by embracing an ungodly lifestyle of alcohol, bad TV, chat hook ups with inappropriate and/or unavailable men, a weight-loss/fitness obsession, and a workaholic mentality that will kill her. We took our kids on a road trip to visit her this April, and it was awkward and awful. Our stay with her ended in a shouting match between my wife and my friend, and of course my earlier conversation about pm was revealed (I was not present at the time).
My wife sat on that particular nugget for a week before asking me about it. I said it was a revelation from God that I could not and would not deny. Her position hasn't changed: Perhaps it was ok for people in the Bible, she said, but it isn't right/needed today. She still hasn't engaged with the biblical arguments. But at least we didn't end up shouting (or worse), so that's progress (I think?). We talked civily about pm for maybe half an hour, and then not since. I won't bring it up again, but I suspect that it's not far beneath the surface. We haven't spoken to our friend since the argument, and I think we're both avoiding it because to do so opens the possibility of talking about pm again. I feel like perhaps the Lord has closed a door, but I also don't want to abandon our friend even if she is avoiding God. Ugh, what a mess.
What am I trying to say to you through this sad tale? I'm not sure. But here's some thoughts.
* No matter what else happens, I'm eternally grateful that God used my friend to reveal to me the truth of biblical plural marriage. It's a part of me now and impacts my thinking in so many areas.
* It's really hard to know when to take decisive action, and when to patiently wait (often without speaking, often for years) for others to catch up to your revelation. No matter what you do, individuals have free will to react in ways you can't control. Nevertheless, our God is a faithful redeemer.
* Because he loves us, he can turn every situation for our benefit. It may be painful, it may take time, but we are not trapped by our actions (or inactions). Don't beat yourself up about what you did or did not do. Whatever choices you make, if made with pure intentions and a desire to obey, are opportunities for God to bring about his purpose. There's a verse that comes to mind here, something about man taking steps (with limited understanding), but God guiding our way.
You have my deepest sympathy and most heartfelt encouragement. The journey may be long, and the destination's details unclear, but if you make love and patience your constant companions, Heavenly Father will make all thing work for your good.
And to be clear, I love my wife, I love my marriage, I'm satisfied and grateful, and am only ever looking to my Father for guidance on the 'potentional of plurality'
Your story is very touching and I'm so sorry for the pain felt by the three of you. I love how you ended it with encouragement. I'll be praying for the three of you.
SouthernCross--I'm amazed at your openness and candor in sharing on such a painful and sensitive subject, but then sometimes just talking and reaching a hand out to a brother is therapy for both of you. I'm finding here at BF a willingness to listen, support, and the permission for freedom. I would have to think long and hard to remember a time or place where I've found this elsewhere. I'm so thankful you truly love your wife. It's hard to understand just HOW conditioned us girls have been all of our lives to think a certain way. We live in such a broken and twisted world. There is nothing too hard for God. He IS able. Jer. 32:27, 17, Jer. 33:3--read them in that order.