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Tax marriage penalty

M

MemeFan

Seasoned Member
Male
I know most of you have practically zero interest in exoteric world of taxes.

This is interesting article. Basically it's impossible to design proggresive tax system where second earner isn't punished.

taxfoundation.org

When Marriage Doesn’t Pay: Analysis and Options for Addressing Marriage and Second-Earner Penalties

In nearly two of every three households in America with dependents, more than one person works to make ends meet. In many cases, when two workers file jointly, they are penalized for having a second earner in the household. This is because the second-earner’s wages are subject to a higher...
taxfoundation.org taxfoundation.org
 
Progressive tax systems are repressive. The so-called 'rich' always build in loopholes so they pay nothing at all and everyone else gets screwed.

The solution is a flat tax permanently set to a specific percentage with no deductions for anyone. Deficit spending gets banned. Period.
 
I realize this is a sidebar and while I do not wish to distract, what constitutes rich in most people's mind?
Cash, total assets or what have you.
 
MeganC said:
The solution is a flat tax permanently set to a specific percentage with no deductions for anyone. Deficit spending gets banned. Period.
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And, sorry, but that can NEVER happen with an anti-Scriptural system of 'dishonest weights and measures.' (Fiat money, "loaned into existence," which BEGINS as a deficit.)

And it WAS banned, back when we had a Constitution!
 
MeganC said:
Progressive tax systems are repressive. The so-called 'rich' always build in loopholes so they pay nothing at all and everyone else gets screwed.

The solution is a flat tax permanently set to a specific percentage with no deductions for anyone. Deficit spending gets banned. Period.
Click to expand...
An honest flat tax without deductions would be a huge improvement, but we really shouldn't have any sort sort of income tax.
 
paterfamilias said:
I realize this is a sidebar and while I do not wish to distract, what constitutes rich in most people's mind?
Cash, total assets or what have you.
Click to expand...
Broke is someone making 1/3 of what I make.
Poor is someone who makes 1/2 of what I do.
The "normal or average" person makes what I do.
The wealthy person makes1.5-3X what I make.
The rich person makes at more than 3X what I do.

The above answer is kind of a joke, but also something like what people feel.

In terms of assets, rich today probably requires at least $10 million plus in total assets (farmers of course need more than that to be rich).
 
Bartato said:
An honest flat tax without deductions would be a huge improvement, but we really shouldn't have any sort sort of income tax.
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A million times this. Get rid of federal taxes for individuals, implement standard federal sales tax, do a rebate akin to UBI for those under a certain gross income.
 
IndianaLife said:
A million times this. Get rid of federal taxes for individuals, implement standard federal sales tax, do a rebate akin to UBI for those under a certain gross income.
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You can't do that. And it would be stupid move.

First problem is federales spending as drunken sailor. You can't good tax code without spending control. If you spend everything, you need to tax everything no matter how stupid it is.

And you don't because, well above. There is no politican able to control spending*. What sales tax will provide is 🗻🗻🗻🗻 of 💸💸💸 for politicians to spend. So you will be both sales and income tax. And welfare state as in EU. And Washington bureaucrats believing they can take at once on Russia, China, Belarus, Iran, Syria, North Korea....

Better approach is to turn income tax into consumption tax. Just don't tax investments.


*Milei is exception, he hates these guys.
 
MemeFan said:
You can't do that. And it would be stupid move.
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There IS no 'smart move' (except to "come out of her." :) )

The system is dead - stick a fork in it. INTEREST alone now on The Debt exceeds all current tax revenue combined.

The Only Way Out is the same as history says it ALWAYS it: Default, or Hyperinflation. More likely, both.
 
Bartato said:
The Federal government shouldn't be doing the vast majority of what it does.
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Most rational analyses demonstrate that that number at about 90%. That means less than ten percent of ALL 'federal spending' is legitimate, so that 90% (as are almost all Three-Letter Agencies!) is unconstitutional.

Note how that didn't stop them.
 
Mark C said:
Most rational analyses demonstrate that that number at about 90%. That means less than ten percent of ALL 'federal spending' is legitimate, so that 90% (as are almost all Three-Letter Agencies!) is unconstitutional.

Note how that didn't stop them.
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That's the number I would have estimated. They should be able to reduce by about 90% (but won't).
 
Mark C said:
There IS no 'smart move' (except to "come out of her." :) )

The system is dead - stick a fork in it. INTEREST alone now on The Debt exceeds all current tax revenue combined.

The Only Way Out is the same as history says it ALWAYS it: Default, or Hyperinflation. More likely, both.
Click to expand...
Nope.

Reason default or hyperinflation comes is because politicians don't stop spending. If they do, situation gets better.

Haven't you seen recent Argentina case? They were at entrance of hyperinflation, select Milei who gutted spending spending and solution fixed.

Too often people claim particular cases are universal.

And there is way out for US by throwing gold. Pay bond comes to maturity, pay part of it in gold.
 
Re: Inevitability of fiat funny money system collapse:

MemeFan said:
Nope.

Reason default or hyperinflation comes is because politicians don't stop spending. If they do, situation gets better.
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Double-nope. Utter collapse takes a bit longer. But 'paying off' a debt-based fraud with more debt at interest is an utter mathematical impossibility.

The End is already Written. Which is why the Bible calls it "abomination," and mandates a debt Reset every 50 years. Otherwise, what happens INSTEAD, 30 or 40 years later, is generally catastrophic.

There has never, ever, in history, not once, been a fully-fiat currency (dollar real, mark) that did not collapse.

Helpful addendum:

“There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion or later as the final and total collapse of the currency itself.”
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– Ludwig von Mises, Founder of the Austrian School of Economics

He calls the latter, "the Crack Up Boom."
 
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Mark C said:
Re: Inevitability of fiat funny money system collapse:


Double-nope. Utter collapse takes a bit longer. But 'paying off' a debt-based fraud with more debt at interest is an utter mathematical impossibility.

The End is already Written. Which is why the Bible calls it "abomination," and mandates a debt Reset every 50 years. Otherwise, what happens INSTEAD, 30 or 40 years later, is generally catastrophic.

There has never, ever, in history, not once, been a fully-fiat currency (dollar real, mark) that did not collapse.

Helpful addendum:


– Ludwig von Mises, Founder of the Austrian School of Economics

He calls the latter, "the Crack Up Boom."
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Nope.

You are right if assumption is only about pure fiat money.

Collapse of dollar isn't imment because as Papa Ponzi it can first eat it's children. Process which will take time.

You have also before mentioned that interest on debt is greater than tax for federal government. First, I think you are misinformed. It's can be greater than all taxes. I remember this week reading debt interest being greater than income tax. Which makes more sense.

Which still means deeply chainsawing federal spending can fix situation. And lowering spending will reduce interest rate since risk of nonpayment and stealing value of bonds throught inflation will fall down.

And value of dollar can be protected by trick I described to you. Buy US treasury bond for $1000, receive, for example, 3% rate and at end receive back $1000 plus, for example, 1 gram of gold.

When sanctions have started against Russia, Russian central bank was able to link ruble with gold (don't remeber mechanism now) saving it's currency.

USA can do same. For good linking treasury bonds with gold is good for US dollar, but principle is same. Link dollar with gold anddollar isn't anymore pure fiat, therefore Mises conclusion isn't valid anymore.

At least linking treasury bonds with gold with save real value of US government debt, which will help protect US dollar.
 
You wanna think there will be "chainsawing" of federal spending? Before that happens, Trump will win an honest election, the Deep State will admit they tried and failed to kill him, and rigged the last election besides. But - THIS TIME - they'll "let the people choose."

Yeah, sure. Pass the Soma.

But, yes - it may take a while longer. It already has. And von Mises has warned what the ultimate "Crack Up Boom" will look like, and that, 'then the End will come.'

Just not precisely when.

BUT: WHEN the average Dumbed-down Denizen realizes that the money in his wallet will never, ever, be worth as much again:

We're there.
 
Mark C said:
You wanna think there will be "chainsawing" of federal spending? Before that happens, Trump will win an honest election, the Deep State will admit they tried and failed to kill him, and rigged the last election besides. But - THIS TIME - they'll "let the people choose."

Yeah, sure. Pass the Soma.

But, yes - it may take a while longer. It already has. And von Mises has warned what the ultimate "Crack Up Boom" will look like, and that, 'then the End will come.'

Just not precisely when.

BUT: WHEN the average Dumbed-down Denizen realizes that the money in his wallet will never, ever, be worth as much again:

We're there.
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And British elite didn't want Brexit and wanted regulatory harmonization with EU. They were forced to accept L in both cases.

And rising cost of debt will force Congress to do some cutting. Who cares if they like it or no? I know they like spending like drunken sailors.

Crack-up boom can always be avoided. Link money to gold. Fixed.
 
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Mark C said:
Gee, I wonder why Ludwig von Mises didn't think of that. Praise the Fed, they'd never lie about how much of that is left!
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Because Mises was describing consequence of fiat money system, not how to away from it.

And yes, praise Lord for Fed from 2021. It was Fed raising of interest rate, replacement of LIBOR with SOFR and it's destruction of eurodollar system which is destroying globalist's finances.

One of reasons businesses are "putting woke away" is because money neeeded to consolidate markets and keep business alive while pushing woke on customer's throaths is drying up. So businesses, when no longer able to live from globalist milk and honey, have to be responsive to their customers.
 
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