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The retreat came up in Sunday School.....

The Revolting Man

The Revolting Man

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My men's group at church asked me how the retreat went and if I was still convinced about "the polygamy." It caught me off guard because I didn't know they knew about the retreat.

They did however and their reaction was one of mild interest and basic acceptance. There was one guy who essentially said it was lawful but maybe archaic, another who thinks it lawful but not practical under normal conditions and one guy who brought up Adam and Eve being monogamous. It was a fun topic and I got to give many of the arguments we all know.

It will be interesting to see if there is any blowback. I'm already considered to be something of a wild eyed, crazy beard man so it might not make that big of a splash. I've been open about it in the past.

We'll see. It was another example that God will give is opportunities to shine the light and if we're ready and willing we can plant seeds!
 
Some of you are aware that I've been agitating for this group or at least a subset of this group to become more intentional about activism--getting the word out about biblical marriage and family. I'm also pushing Experiencing God as a great development tool to get used to the idea of "looking to see where God is at work and joining Him in His work". Stay tuned for further bulletins as events warrant.

Meanwhile, GO ZEC!!! :cool::cool::cool:
 
andrew said:
Some of you are aware that I've been agitating for this group or at least a subset of this group to become more intentional about activism--getting the word out about biblical marriage and family. I'm also pushing Experiencing God as a great development tool to get used to the idea of "looking to see where God is at work and joining Him in His work". Stay tuned for further bulletins as events warrant.

Meanwhile, GO ZEC!!! :cool::cool::cool:
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Not sure exactly how the Father will direct us, but I have really been doubly convicted in the last week of the 'rightnes' of this in Scripture and in our lives. I'm further becoming convinced this is a specific piece of (near) future ministry. DW is coming along fine since retreat and I am trusting Father to open the way for us to walk in this, thus being obedient and experienced. Pray to that end as I am willing to take steps in that direction with the Father's leading.
 
ZecAustin said:
It was another example that God will give is opportunities to shine the light and if we're ready and willing we can plant seeds!
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Amen to that brother.

ZecAustin said:
It was a fun topic and I got to give many of the arguments we all know.
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It's where a good grounding in biblical truth, through what we learn here in the forums is proven to be such a blessing. For me, the interaction on the forums has helped get me ready to plant those seeds - but also to be able to rip out the old weeds that are so prevalent. Like the planting of the seeds of the gospel, the ground needs to be cleared of weeds, cultivated well, and then good seed planted.
 
The more equity you have built up, the smoother it is. That's been my experience.
 
Great job Zec!

It is interesting how they knew. It shows that we may have more influence than we realize.
 
ZecAustin said:
It was another example that God will give is opportunities to shine the light
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I got a text message from a guy in the USA last night saying he's "shocked" to hear I'm a polygamist. After a couple of text messages back and forth he asked; "tell me, where in the Bible it says its ok to have multiple wives." I'm really grateful to have the resources to respond and shed some light on this issue; I emailed him a PDF of the notes I've put together since it's the same arguments that come up against polygyny each time. Sorry Zec, don't mean to hijack your thread. Shalom :)
 
Before taking him to this passage, ask him outright if it would really change his mind if you could show him where God directly told a would-be polygamist in a dream that he would be innocent taking an additional wife. Would that really change his mind? Why or why not.

After that discussion (assuming he agrees), take him through Genesis 20. Here God tells Abimelech not to commit adultery with Abraham's wife Sarah. Abimelech maintains he did it in innocence because he had been deceived*, and God agrees that he would have been acting innocently if she hadn't been married. The punchline is at the end of the chapter, where we find out Abimelech was already married.

(*Cross-referencing the thread with the discussion of vows entered under false pretenses, here's another example where sin is still imputed regardless of intent. That Abimelech was unaware of Sarah's marital status, and was not intending to take another man's wife, did not change the fact that adultery would have occured.)
 
frederick said:
I emailed him a PDF of the notes I've put together since it's the same arguments that come up against polygyny each time.
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Care to share? Any way to upload the file?

At the retreat there was s brief discussion about creating some short hand outs.... your off may be a good place to start.
 
frederick said:
he asked; "tell me, where in the Bible it says its ok to have multiple wives."
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Where does it say it's not okay?

As for finding a place where the book stops to give an explicit approval of one of its ongoing themes: If you're not ready to see something that pervades the book, why should I chase my tail to show you something that isn't even there?

I know — preaching to the choir. But it bears repeating that the burden of proof is on your accuser, not you.
 
frederick said:
"tell me, where in the Bible it says its ok to have multiple wives."
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2 Samuel 12:8 (KJV)
And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
The context being that David had taken another mans wife and shouldn’t have needed to have done that, YHWH would have given him more if the ones that He had already given him weren’t enough.

The short answer, if anyone was wondering.
 
steve said:
2 Samuel 12:8 (KJV)
And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
The context being that David had taken another mans wife and shouldn’t have needed to have done that, YHWH would have given him more if the ones that He had already given him weren’t enough.

The short answer, if anyone was wondering.
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While I agree 100% with the passage you've presented, I've heard otherwise scholarly Christians claim that Nathan was being hyperbolic here.
 
Hyperbolic, maybe, in light of David's many existing wives. But it is not something God would say if He had a problem with multiple wives.

If that were the case He wouldn't be highlighting just Bathsheba and the conversation would have been had years earlier.
 
I can see how someone could stretch the additional wives into a hyperbolic statement, however, when God states that something you’ve already been entrusted with is the direct result of His generosity, it seems intellectually dishonest and beyond credibility to try to pose that as hyperbole.
It also opens the door to question whether any other of His gifts are also hyperbole. Salvation, the Holy Spirit, numerous gifts of the spirit, health, blessings, on and on.

Hyperbole? Bring it on!
(BTW that was for them. Love peace and all the fuzzy stuff for you guys :D)
 
Funnily enough I had a friend present that argument (hyperbole) to me recently, and it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it. Another twist here is that Nathan says that God will give David’s wives to another man. My friend argued that it does not stand to reason that it was morally ok for Absalom to sleep with David’s wives, even though God is said to give them to him, so that just because Nathan says that God gave David those wives, in contrast to David taking Uriah’s wife, doesn’t mean that it’s morally ok based on that statement to have sexual relations with them.

Now I disagree, in part because Nathan also says that God would have given David as much more if it weren’t enough, and since there isn’t any other reason for someone to think it were wrong of David to have those wives. But I don’t think it’s a dishonest argument for the anti-polygamist to use. Even if I don’t find it compelling, it does at least on the surface seem plausible. But as @mystic pointed out earlier in this thread, the burden of proof is of course on the accuser of sin to prove that a thing is sinful, not just to try to make an internally consistent argument that it could possibly be sinful.

(Also, I wonder how the name “Nathan” plays in here, since I think it means something related to “to give”.)
 
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