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The word "Church"

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Palrmine

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Based on a few articles I've read, and also the main page scriptural index from this site, I have been struggling with something about English translations.

Why are we inserting "Church" into the new testament when the word did not exist in Greek, and the original Greek clearly does not use a word with the same meaning?

Is this a violation of Duet 4:2?

I plan on doing a family study on this but I would love to hear a take on this from the folks here

Thanks!
 
Devarim 4:2 Orthodox Jewish Bible
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye take anything from it, that ye may be shomer mitzvot of the commandments of Hashem Eloheichem which I command you.

Deuteronomy 4:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the L-rd your G-d which I command you.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Tree of Life Version (TLV)
2 You must not add to the word that I am commanding you or take away from it—in order to keep the mitzvot of Adonai your G-d that I am commanding you.

Deuteronomy 4:2 American Standard Version (ASV)
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your G-d which I command you.

It's stunning how many way we can violate Dueteronomy 4:2 just by translating it.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1500-what-is-the-meaning-of-ekklesia

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=g1577

That might help with your family study.

Origin of Church
Old English cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to Dutch kerk and German Kirche, based on medieval Greek kurikon, from Greek kuriakon (dōma ) ‘Lord's (house),’ from kurios ‘master or lord.’ Compare with kirk.

IMO that word should be thrown in an easter basket thats decorated like a Christmas tree in which St. Patrick threw up in after spending the day drinking and eating chocolate with St. Valentine but that's probably just me.
 
Kevin said:
IMO that word should be thrown in an easter basket thats decorated like a Christmas tree in which St. Patrick threw up in after spending the day drinking and eating chocolate with St. Valentine but that's probably just me.
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Priceless! @Kevin :D

We are aware of the difference between "Church" and "Ecclesia." The difference is one of semantics, a word often used to trivialize the importance of a differing opinion, but which should be of utmost importance when dealing with scripture and truth.
There is an introduction Q and A from the author of the articles I am linking, that may be more than enough on this subject for someone only slightly interested.

If this makes you want to dig deeper, the author has a three part series I have also uploaded below.
I would type more myself, but am on my phone and traveling today. The files may not be in order.
 

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Kevin said:
IMO that word should be thrown in an easter basket thats decorated like a Christmas tree in which St. Patrick threw up in after spending the day drinking and eating chocolate with St. Valentine but that's probably just me.
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Oh that made me laugh! :D

Ps. Is there any way to get better emojis in the forum? Sorry if that sounds like whining :rolleyes:
 
It's not an example of adding to the scriptures but changing it. Or at the least, mistranslating it.

It was an intentional choice (from the KJV) in order to preserve High Church Anglican traditions. One of the earliest translations, either by Wycliffe or Tyndale, used the word 'congregation'; which is accurate. I can't remember for sure which it was but both were hated by the church; both burned at the stake (Wycliffe posthumously).

Kevin said:
Origin of Church
Old English cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to Dutch kerk and German Kirche, based on medieval Greek kurikon, from Greek kuriakon (dōma ) ‘Lord's (house),’ from kurios ‘master or lord.’ Compare with kirk.
Click to expand...

Basically, post Constantine 'church' got confused with what you might call 'temple'. In the NT it always referred to a people. Congregation or assembly are accurate terms in English for Ecclesia.
 
rockfox said:
It's not an example of adding to the scriptures but changing it. Or at the least, mistranslating it.
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True. As I read it though the letter of the Law says do not add or subtract and the spirit of the Law says do not change. Then again that too is seen by some as adding to.

I would also like to point out most of the time Ekklesia means assembly, but all the time it means called out.

Today most people think of the building where the assembly meets and forget that they are the Ekklesia.
 
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Joleneakamama said:
If this makes you want to dig deeper, the author has a three part series I have also uploaded below
Click to expand...
There's some good stuff there. I'm not sure I agree with everything but I did a quick once over so I might of missed some connections. I'm going to dig in better a little latter.
 
A bit more of why I am thinking about this subject. I've always believed that polygany was allowed. In thetpast few years I've understood that polygany is good (both beneficial and righteous). In the past couple months I have come to the understanding that the suppression of polygany (and persecution of people who believe in it) is the first stair leading to a temple of idolotry.

And there are a few verses where I see this and wince. But none more so than the wording that Jesus is the bride groom of the "church". We Christians have changed the very nature of God himself just to fit in a word that better supports our own, man-made wisdom.

So I'm getting ready to walk up the steps and overturn the street vendor's tables in my own brain. And this is where it starts.
 
Palrmine said:
In the past couple months I have come to the understanding that the suppression of polygany (and persecution of people who believe in it) is the first stair leading to a temple of idolotry.
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Ok that is some powerful imagery and very worthy of further exploration! I wonder what other steps are on that stair case and in what order they are commonly transversed.

Although to be honest, I think there are probably a few stairs that came before suppression of polygamy.
 
How about changing the definition of certain words? That might be a step or two before. Words and their definitions are the things on which entire arguments have their basis. Changing the definition of adultery, for example, is one of the most powerful tools in the war of swaying peoples minds against what G-d has said. Changing the definition of words changes the way we read what G-d has said, or at least our understanding of it. Changing words or their definition has the same effect and the enemy uses it to make things unclear and bring confusion.
Genesis 3:1
...“Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
 
If you look at the origin and definition of "semantics" it is rather eye opening. The people that dismiss it as unimportant just show their ignorance. Language got confounded at Babel, and truly communication even within the bounds of a single language can only happen when the meaning intended is the meaning that is heard or understood.
This is why confusion abounds when words are not defined.
 
Asforme&myhouse said:
Changing the definition of adultery, for example, is one of the most powerful tools in the war of swaying peoples minds against what G-d has said.
Click to expand...
That's a perfect example. In older versions of the Oxford and Webster dictionaries, it was defined same as the Bible; a woman who breaks wedlock. Modern dictionaries now have it as 'spouse'.
There are newer "common english" Bible translations that do the same thing by trading 'husband/wife' for the all-purpose 'spouse'.
 
Good point. It's like the gender neutral references for God bibles in style recently.
 
Here’s my .02. In the NT, the Word “church” is used 77 times. Yes, I counted. Disclaimer here: I may have miscounted, but it’s real close. It does not use the word “Church,” as was stated in the original post. Why? Simple grammar is the answer. When reading about “the Cars” one understands it is about the rock band. When one reads “the cars” one also understands it is about a group of automobiles. Same for the name Curt versus curt. It’s a noun thing. “Church” is a proper name denoting the structure regardless of the contents, but “church” by definition in Strong’s is a body of believers, primarily men. If my memory serves me correctly, a pastor in Illinois attempted to put the little “c” in place of the big “C.” A certain alphabet agency of the fed did not like that. Consequences ensued. ;)
 
Curtis Gerhart said:
church” by definition in Strong’s is a body of believers, primarily men. If my memory serves me correctly, a pastor in Illinois attempted to put the little “c” in place of the big “C.”
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By etymology of the word that is not the definition. Strongs like many before him change the meaning of the word to try and make it fit. You can put a pig in a dress, but it doesn't make that pig a suitable prom date.
 
Curtis Gerhart said:
Here’s my .02. In the NT, the Word “church” is used 77 times. Yes, I counted. Disclaimer here: I may have miscounted, but it’s real close. It does not use the word “Church,” as was stated in the original post. Why? Simple grammar is the answer. When reading about “the Cars” one understands it is about the rock band. When one reads “the cars” one also understands it is about a group of automobiles. Same for the name Curt versus curt. It’s a noun thing. “Church” is a proper name denoting the structure regardless of the contents, but “church” by definition in Strong’s is a body of believers, primarily men. If my memory serves me correctly, a pastor in Illinois attempted to put the little “c” in place of the big “C.” A certain alphabet agency of the fed did not like that. Consequences ensued
Click to expand...

I do the exact opposite. I use the big C when referencing the quintessence of church, the immortal and singular body of believers marching across time and space, terrible as an army with banners. Or I use the Church to mean all the believers in a given city.

I use church for any of the definitions of church that I don't like, and often substitute organization, or building, for those uses.
 
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