Train Up A Child

[DaPastor]

I was about to respond on the Ladies board, and caught myself....lol.

The "time out" movement began with Dr. Spock's book on child rearing (late 40's). His teaching has influenced (negatively) every generation since then. Here is what Dr Spock admitted before he died:

We have reared a generation of brats. Parents aren’t firm enough with their children for fear of losing their love or incurring their resentment. This is a cruel deprivation that we professionals have imposed on mothers and fathers. Of course, we did it with the best of intentions. We didn’t realize until it was too late how our know-it-all attitude was undermining the self-assurance of parents.

Thanks, Dr. Spock! No wonder we are exhorted in Scripture to get our advice from God's Word!!!! When will the church learn that God's Word is to be the final authority for all our faith and practices! Scripture affirms that "everything that pertains to LIFE and GODLINESS" has been given to us through His Word. Why do we keep looking to the "philosophies of men"?

ANyway, here are some good sources for Biblical Discipline of Children:

http://www.discipleshiplibrary.com/pdfs/FDS8_1.pdf

(This first one is very sound. It is too bad he doesn't apply his teaching on interpretation to marriage, but none the less, does an excellent exegesis on what "rod" means according to the Word)

http://www.ntmu.net/lovingcommand.htm

(This one has excellent advice to the Fathers at the end of the article)

 

[wifeone]

Wow!! I always felt that there was something soooo wrong with limiting yourself to that method of disciplining children. As you look at the generations, you can see the decline in respect, self discipline, and other character flaws. I always thought to myself...."Are people kidding themselves? Can't they see that time-outs are not always as effective as the old fashioned spanking?!" It's sad that it has gone so far, that now, people try to label spanking as child abuse. I'm not saying that time-out don't work. I'm saying that it should not be an exclusive method of discipline. Don't rule out other methods. All children may respond differently to different methods of discipline.

 

[DaPastor]

Hello,

Over the years I have heard many Christians say that their are many methods one can use to discipline. The question I would ask is this: "Are believers to do things because they work"? There are a lot of things that people say "work" on all kinds of levels, does this mean we are to do these things because they "work"? Is there a difference between pragmatic truth and Scriptural truth? Is it possible to make pragmatism our idol?

Let's take it to another level. Did God make us? If so, does He know what we need better than any psychologist on the planet? I believe that the best psychology textbook of the world is the Scriptures. Is God Perfect? Is His Word Perfect? If His way is perfect, who are we to come up with our own ways, or our own methods!? To me, it is about trusting God and His Word!

I am a firm believer that the Word of God is to be our final authority for all are practices. Secular humanism as crept into the church and we are all victims of it on some level, but I feel that when we discover an area where we have bought into humanism, we should cut all the chains that binds us, including how we discipline our children. The children we receive are not only a gift from God, but a Divine stewardship, and we are accountable for their training. Because these children are, in essence, His children, He expects us (like we would expect a good Nanny) to discipline them the way He instructs us to do so. All methods outside of His instructions may actually be seen as acts of rebellion against His purposes. We would be very displeased with our Nanny if she disciplined one of our children in a way that we didn't approve.

So, in essence, we need to submit whatever we do to the Word of God, not to our culture. God's Word is eternal, and it transcends both time and culture. So, not matter what modern culture communicates to us, we are obligated to submit to His program. Not only that, but since God's Word is authoritative, we are not to compare what the world says with God's Word and determine what we like best. God's Word is to judge our thoughts and intentions, which should bring us to a place of forsaking the ideas of our culture while embracing fully His Holy, Pure, and Upright Word!

 

[marry-ella]

Spanking is illegal here. I wont say that I do except to say that I follow the scriptures. I had a loser and his mom try and tell me how to dicipline my children (but I did and didn't announce it). But that mom may have spanked her son but he is still a wimpy spoiled brat. I do take some comfort that my kids still have a will of there own and aren't Terrified of me. However a part of respect is fear. God only chastises the ones he loves right? That being (un)said. I use timeouts and other forms of natural consequences. I have taken extensive parenting classes and one child development course. I don't think it's all bad or unscriptural. Remember the bible is full of bad men who's parents would have raised them under the Torah.

And if a nanny ever spanked my kids I would fire her. It's not a Nanny's job. If a teacher spanked my kids I would not go to that school either. I was a Nanny and that man was insane. He yelled allot about my undisciplined children. But it was his who peed in the wast basket when his wife was home. I ended up being a Slave. That was interesting to say the least. It was more interesting that coming home was worse.

 

[diasōzō]

The only experience I have on this subject is my own as a child.
When I was young my Dad would spank me and my brothers. He was the authority of the house, and wasn't to be messed with.
My Mom however could have beat us bloody, and we still wouldn't have learned anything.
Nothing against a Mothers discipline, but I personally think its the Fathers job. Other wise it means very little.

One thing I have to note is that BOTH the Father and Mother have to be there for the support and teaching after you discipline. It can't be lopsided, other wise it becomes Good Cop/Bad Cop...

 

[marry-ella]

What about us single mothers who are blessed to be the head of our homes. IT'S MY JOB! and my kids listen well. Better than most and are often in senerios other mom's I know couldn't take there kids with on because it would be to challanging. Example 14hr buss rides. No problem split up seating.

 

[DaPastor]

Spanking is illegal here.

I understand! When my children were small, the State I lived in passed a law against public spanking. When my children acted up publicly, I spanked them. I did not "whack" them, but I very systematically spanked them. My first wife and I decided that if we were to be arrested, we would do everything in our power to make it a religious liberty issue. Even if the government ruled against us, we would obey Scripture over the government. If necessary, we would have moved out of the country to continue to obey Scripture.

As of 2009-MAY, corporal punishment by parents is allowed, with restrictions:

United States:

All 50 states and the District of Columbia permit the corporal punishment of children. However, physical abuse is not allowed. Unfortunately, thousands of parents start with spanking and escalate to abuse every year.

Canada:

All of the 10 provinces and three territories of Canada, allow the use of "minor corrective force," but it can only be "of a transient and trifling nature." There are also minimum and maximum age limits. The use of implements is forbidden; only the open hand can be used.

 

[marry-ella]

One thing I have to note is that BOTH the Father and Mother have to be there for the support and teaching after you discipline. It can't be lopsided, other wise it becomes Good Cop/Bad Cop...

Absolutely that is something I learned in all the courses. It is vital every one has to be on the same page. Which does lead us to following scriptures in all matters as we don't want to be out of sink with god who is the father of all. That would send mixed messages. However I am not perfect and my kids will one day clearly and easily recognize I am not perfect and that God is.

 

[marry-ella]

Da Pastor I use my open hand are you sure that it is legal? I worry about it (I'm Canadian). I never use an object or a "rod" there are some versis in Corinthans I'm looking up but I see you may be online.

 

[DaPastor]

I wont say that I do except to say that I follow the scriptures. I had a loser and his mom try and tell me how to dicipline my children (but I did and didn't announce it). But that mom may have spanked her son but he is still a wimpy spoiled brat. I do take some comfort that my kids still have a will of there own and aren't Terrified of me. However a part of respect is fear. God only chastises the ones he loves right? That being (un)said. I use timeouts and other forms of natural consequences. I have taken extensive parenting classes and one child development course. I don't think it's all bad or unscriptural. Remember the bible is full of bad men who's parents would have raised them under the Torah.

Hi again,

I remember years ago when my children were young and other parents would criticize us because we were using the Biblical method of child rearing. They would say that we were too strict, too hard, mean, etc… We just trusted the Word of God. They would spank them from time to time, but never consistently. Do you know a few years later, when these children were out of High School, almost all of them were involved with drugs, crime and/or illegal activities! The Lord blessed us with children who were not involved with all of those activities. Does this mean they are perfect! Of course not, but their foundation is set strong enough that if any gets away from the things of God, we can hold to the Scripture that tells us, “train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it”. No such promise comes with the humanistic approach!!

This is not to say that raising children the Biblical way guarantees great behavior, but there is more at stake here then great behavior – it is God’s glory! Do I trust the Lord enough to believe that His method is the best method on this planet? I believe that God knows better than me!

One other thing – I have seen parents who use Biblical discipline method and their children are nasty people. Why? Because spanking is only ONE PART of the equation! Being a pastor, I discovered that behind the scenes of these families who appeared to be doing right, were lives out of control. They didn’t spend time daily in His Word! They didn’t spend time together as a family! Their discipline was inconsistent! Their examples were non-existent – and yes, they came to church like nothing was wrong!

 

[DaPastor]

Da Pastor I use my open hand are you sure that it is legal? I worry about it (I'm Canadian). I never use an object or a "rod" there are some versis in Corinthans I'm looking up but I see you may be online.

Canada:

CORRECTION OF CHILD BY FORCE:

43. "Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances." [R.S. c.C-34, s.43.]