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What Constitutes a Church
- Thread starter TheGodlyMarriage
- Start date
Hi, I took a look at the article in the link above and there are a few things you might wish to consider.
In your article, under
Consider a few passages from scripture;
Psalm 18:2 The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my strength, in whom I will trust;
My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psalm 18:31 For who is God, except the Lord?
And who is a rock, except our God?
Psalm 95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the Lord!
Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.
One more; Isaiah 44:8
Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other rock;
I know not one.’”
Peter is not the rock on which the Church is built. Indeed Scripture does not support such an idea.
Under the heading of "Church Participation" you quote, Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.
This verse is not a promise of Christ's presence at small prayer meetings or a prescription for the size of assemblies. The two or three who are gathered together in His name, are those who are involved in the dispute resolution between the brethren. Read Matthew 18:16, But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
The two or three who are gathered together in His name have come together to deal with a person in sin, and Christ's presence and purpose is central to that.
Under the heading,
Now many say that a church can have more than 1 leader, thus making it possible for larger congregations."
Please read Acts Chapter 2. Notice how many God added in v:41; Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And see also v:47, And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. The apostles and disciples took immediate oversight of this multitude and God continued to add.
The number "50" which you suggest is not supported in Scripture. According to Acts 14:23, Paul appointed elders in every church. Note, the word elders is from πρεσβυτέρους which is plural, and church is singular. Having more than one spiritually mature man of God to oversee an assembly is consistent with what we see in the Bible.
Shalom
Let's begin here; Paul didn’t create the church, Jesus Christ did. God owns each one He saves and gifts for service in His assemblies as He wills (cf. 1 Cor. 12:4-7). He started it and He's building it.
In your article, under
- Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Consider a few passages from scripture;
Psalm 18:2 The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my strength, in whom I will trust;
My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Psalm 18:31 For who is God, except the Lord?
And who is a rock, except our God?
Psalm 95:1 Oh come, let us sing to the Lord!
Let us shout joyfully to the Rock of our salvation.
One more; Isaiah 44:8
Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other rock;
I know not one.’”
Peter is not the rock on which the Church is built. Indeed Scripture does not support such an idea.
Under the heading of "Church Participation" you quote, Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.
This verse is not a promise of Christ's presence at small prayer meetings or a prescription for the size of assemblies. The two or three who are gathered together in His name, are those who are involved in the dispute resolution between the brethren. Read Matthew 18:16, But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
The two or three who are gathered together in His name have come together to deal with a person in sin, and Christ's presence and purpose is central to that.
Under the heading,
How Big is too Big / Bad news for the Mega Churches
You suggest, "We would propose that it would be impossible for one man to manage his own family, work to supply his family’s needs, and serve a local group of more than 50 Christians.Now many say that a church can have more than 1 leader, thus making it possible for larger congregations."
Please read Acts Chapter 2. Notice how many God added in v:41; Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And see also v:47, And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved. The apostles and disciples took immediate oversight of this multitude and God continued to add.
The number "50" which you suggest is not supported in Scripture. According to Acts 14:23, Paul appointed elders in every church. Note, the word elders is from πρεσβυτέρους which is plural, and church is singular. Having more than one spiritually mature man of God to oversee an assembly is consistent with what we see in the Bible.
Shalom
Just before Yeshua asked his disciples "Who do you say I am" and Peter replied "Thou art the Christ the son of the living God" I always understood Yeshuas' next words to be a reference to that revealed knowledge being the rock or foundation of faith. The "body of Christ" is made up of people who know Yeshua is the Messiah.
Yes, in Matthew 16:13 Jesus had asked His disciples who people were saying He is. He then asked the disciples, in v:15, "But who do you say that I am?" Peter gave the correct answer which is recorded in v:16; "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." This is the rock; the foundation stone, the eternal truth upon which Jesus Christ is building His great assembly, the church. It is He Himself who is that foundation, as it is written in 1 Corinthians 3:11, For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Shalom
Exactly; the ekklesia would be built on the foundational truth that Yeshua was "the Christ, the Living God."
And an ekklesia is also "where two or more are gathered in My Name."
There is no such thing as churches that are organized religions or churches that are denominations or churches that are buildings. There is only ekklesia, which, as @PeteR has already pointed out, pre-existed the Birth of Yeshua.
Constantine gave us this fiction about churches. Power Grab that distracted believers so successfully that one of the most common things to happen when two people meet for the first time in a small town is to ask each other, "Hey, where do you go to church?"