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what do you mean?

Hey BobNSandy
I am glad you didn't get scared off. The fact is that there are more people on this board who believe in plural marriage but don't practice it than there are those who do practice it. We created a community that people with varying beliefs can share one common bond (sometimes more), the belief in Christian Plural Marriage.

Bryce,
I understand that you don't want to worship with people that you don't consider Christians and people who you call heretics. Well, I want you to look at the posts of one of those people and remind yourself just how long it has been since that person posted. On the other person that you complained about, you have told us stuff but as in a court of law it is hearsay. In America, which is where the founders of this website live, people are innocent until proven guilty. I am sure that people can say unpleasant things about you, but most of those people are refraining because they want to play nice and get along. Please put on your manners. If you don't want to be here, no one is forcing you to.

But, how can you hope to change someone's mind if you refuse to talk to them. I have never converted someone to the Lord without talking to them. I have certainly never changed someones views by calling them names and trying to turn the world against them. If you have a claim against a brother, then you should go to him and try to get him to repent and change his ways. If that doesn't work then go to him with 2 or 3 others and try to get him to repent. Again, if that doesn't work you are to refuse to eat with him. That doesn't mean that you are to slander and libel them.

SweetLissa
 
sweetlissa said:
On the other person that you complained about, you have told us stuff but as in a court of law it is hearsay. In America, which is where the founders of this website live, people are innocent until proven guilty.
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Well, I have spoken with Joshua (sixth_heretic) and he tried to convert me to his beliefs that those who think that our Master Jesus is God are idolaters. Needless to say, I removed him from that website he tried to infiltrate last year. Joshua has published many teaching videos on YouTube and he's out to convince us "idolaters" to smarten up.

Moshe (ravmoshe) is promoting gnostic heresies and, as I recently discovered, some pretty bad ideas concerning concubines. I have provided Moshe's own writings as proof of his promotion of gnosticism and sexual immorality.

I provided the administrators with documentation to support my claims against these two false teachers and I hope they're reviewing them. There is no hearsay involved. There is no slander or libel involved. I have merely presented their own words as proof of their beliefs. I also provided a counter argument to Moshe's writings from a Christian scholar to help explain why he's wrong.

I'm sorry that you don't have the fully story, but the links I posted were erased by an administrator. Come to think of it, they might not have that vital information since it was deleted. I'll send a copy of the information to Nathan to make sure he has it.
 
You are very offended by sixth_heretic who hasn't even logged on since May 4. I discounted him from the beginning because he had the nerve to say call himself a heretic. Usually when people are offensive, they don't make a lot of friends and they move along quickly.

As for the admins, since the board belongs to them, they don't have to do what you tell them to do.

And I don't need YOU to tell me the whole story. I have eyes that see and ears that hear and a mind to decide for myself what is real and what is not. And if I have questions, I go to my husband and ask him to clarify.

SweetLissa
 
Know what bryce and Lissa? It is real refreshing to see people settle arguments in a nice peaceful manner as you two have. Some forums (I think I'm a forumjuknie) aren't so nice to each other.
I thought of a few other questions for the generalpopulation and one clearificanof aprevious question on another thread.
Q when it comesto family income, how do most of you hande it?
I want it to be all our big pile of cash forour common duscussed use.
Q What do you do when one "unit" has arow? does the other "unit" tendto sideone way or another? I figure this varies form fam to fam.
Q.Do any of you practice any type of disaster preperations.Do you have a 72 hour get out of Dodge bag?
Q. Do you have any joint legal representation? Most of the Texas FLDS people I saw on TV were in a daze about what to do. I'd thinksome where along the line you'd have legal problems because of your choice of life.
When I asked about a compound I just meant do any of you live on a jointly owned camp/retreat.
 
I thought of a few other questions for the generalpopulation and one clearificanof aprevious question on another thread.
Q when it comesto family income, how do most of you hande it?
Q What do you do when one "unit" has arow? does the other "unit" tendto sideone way or another? I figure this varies form fam to fam.
Q.Do any of you practice any type of disaster preperations.Do you have a 72 hour get out of Dodge bag?
Q. Do you have any joint legal representation? Most of the Texas FLDS people I saw on TV were in a daze about what to do. I'd thinksome where along the line you'd have legal problems because of your choice of life.
When I asked about a compound I just meant do any of you live on a jointly owned camp/retreat.
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1. We lump all earnings into one joint account. At the present moment I am in charge of paying the bills and making sure that all needs are met. We all try to discuss the needs with all of us, but hubby makes the final decisions. We try to be as flexible as possible. When hubby is not available and we have the necessity of making an emergency decision, T and I do the best we can. Hubby is usually very supportive of us when we have made a decision of this type.

2. We are still working through the interpersonal relationships. I believe that we should not interfere with each others arguments. That said, there are times when we do for the simple reason that it is easier to "translate" for each other than it is to watch the people we care about suffer because they aren't understanding each other.

3. We had not thought of this.

4. We have not gotten to the joint legal representation yet. We are working on it but it will happen when hubby gets home. Right now, T and I each have a power of attorney to handle financial situations while he is absent. He has life insurance with each of us as beneficiaries. Plans that are in the works are wills, a possible family trust (apparently necessary if you want to buy land in TX with more than two names.) and living wills.

Thank you for the positive feedback.

SweetLissa
 
1. I'm presently the only one with earnings. I give my wife the money she needs to run our household as she desires. My other wife receives the money I'm required to give her for the children every month. She would receive much more if she would only accept it.

2. With my rebellious wife out of the picture our family dynamic is pretty straight forward. I can't foresee another wife, so it will likely remain like this - Hashem willing.

3. I'm really keen on disaster planning. I hope to live a much more self-sufficient lifestyle away from the big city in the not too distant future. Perhaps a nice piece of land in the mountains of Jamaica next to a stream would be wonderful... ahhh. :D

4. Once my wife Keneshia makes it to Canada we will get a prenup agreement that gives her the amount of her bride price if I divorce her. My will is going to also provide her that amount and the balance of my estate will go to our only son. I suppose that it will have to be in trust until he is of legal age. Once we have more sons it will be amended so that, after Keneshia receives her ketubah amount, our son Benjamin will receive a double portion and our other sons will receive a single portion. If my other wife returns to me I will give her a ketubah as well and amend those documents to reflect that change.
 
Demorie, my first wife, and I have two girls. Their names are Feylin and Adeline. Feylin is five years old and Adeline is three years old. Adeline is my first, and only, biological child. My second wife, Keneshia, and I have a boy and girl. Benjamin is six years old and little Ruth Ann is 20 months old. So, that's one boy and three little girls. Hashem was knitting together another child last year in Keneshia's womb, but He stopped for some unknown reason. Blessed be the Name!

We have a lot of photos on my website. I just added about forty pictures today, so check them out again. :D

http://iSERVEaJEW.com
 
I think that a bride price is determined by the father of the bride, but I'm not positive. As a minimum, a man must pay 50 shekels of silver for a virgin (Deuteronomy 22:29). Here's some commentary on Exodus 22:17:
If the marriage does not take place, the seducer is fined. The Sages derive exegetically that the amount of the fine is fifty silver shekels, which equals two hundred zuz, the amount stipulated in the marriage contract of virgins (see Kesubos 10a).
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The Talmud lists different prices for the virgin daughter of a Priest (400 zuz) and a widow or divorcee (100 zuz).

How much is 50 shekels of silver? That is something that is debated by the Rabbis. Of the different opinions given, I think that the opinion that says it must be enough to pay for a woman's needs of food, clothing, and lodging for one year is reasonable.
 
So by your ketubah, you only plan to provide for your wife for one year, if you should die? That seems a little harsh. This is not criticism, simply gaining of understanding.

SweetLissa
 
How is it harsh? The Torah commands me to give my inheritance to my sons. My firstborn son will care for my wife and daughters until they marry.

I'm just following orders. :D

The ketubah is to provide my wife with the amount of her bride price. This tradition came to be because very few men could afford to have a wife if they had to pay the bride price up front. The ketubah ensures that she will walk away from the marriage with her bride price and it stipulates that she is to receive the firstfruits of a man's estate if he divorces her or predeceases her.
 
Then I guess it is up to you as the father to raise the son to be responsible and pay attention to your wishes. Because so many young men today fritter away their money on silliness and ignore their parents wishes. Since I have no children, I hope my husband lives a very long time.

SweetLissa
 
I would think that your husband's firstborn son would take care of you too.

Yes, my son will grow up to be a responsible young man. If he were to rebel then I think I would disown him and give that inheritance to the next son.
 
Disobedience and rebellion in children is too arbitrary...parents can take it from one extreme - not seeing any outright rebellion or disobedience at all - to the other extreme of seeing it in very small things. In the '70's it was as simple as a young man growing his hair to the length of his peers', or listening to common culture music (which is completely mild when listened to 30 years down the road).

Then there's the story of the Prodigal Son...who couldn't have become prodigal if he was put to death. It shows the kind of love parents should show toward even their prodigal ones. And his crime was fairly serious, the kind SweetLissa was talking about...squandering an inheritance.

A son should be trained in responsibility. But I'm not sure that the Lord requires a person to follow the law to the letter when the supporting culture is not in place. Eastern families have kids who grow up to understand what their responsibilities are. In that case, it is a real rebellion for them not to fall into that role. But in the case of a kid growing up in detached, independence-based Western society I don't think you can fault them for what they don't understand. Whatever measuring stick you measure your kids with, your Father will measure you with. That's important to remember.

Beta
 
Hey Bob, can I jump in on those questions as I have a bit of a difference here too?

We commune our funds and land but distribute a set amount of personal money to each person each month, an equal amount for the adults, a birthday bonus, and a small allowance for the kids.

Can't comment on arguments, only one wife and a girlfreind, so far no major arguments between the three of us.

No 72 hour kit, but we have some places to go away from cities that have provisions for a while, and if necessary a place to go way up north to get away from it all.

We've consulted our solicitor on this issue twice, one pre and one post Blackmore, in both cases he says the Crown Prosecute has no substantial case. We are also prepared to have him set up legal protections for all wives equivalent or better than basic marriage provisions. It'll cost more than a marriage certificate but we think its worthwhile. (We're Canadian by the way, the legal system is different)
 
Hmmm... my last post disappeared. I'll try to remember what I said.

I wondered whether it was Biblical for a man to disinherit his son. I also pointed out that a disobedient son deserved to die, so it is a pretty serious sin.

What should a man do if he has to think about the well-being of his wife and daughters when he passes? Should he give a disobedient son the inheritance and hope that he'll smarten up so he can properly care for his mother and sisters? Or, should he give the inheritance to a responsible son even though he isn't the firstborn.

Tough questions.
 
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