What do you think the situation of Biblical plural marriages will be like in the coming years?

[Mark C]

I don’t want to start a debate in the midst of this thread, so I will just say that the idea that Adam “obeyed” his wife is an unproven opinion.

Sorry, Steve, but in this case, wrong, and I see "too late" as well.

As Keith correctly pointed out above, the best translation for the Hebrew word "shema" (as in "Shema Israel..." - the "most important" commandment in Scripture, says the Messiah) -
it is rendered as "hear and OBEY." The Olde English word "hearken" has that meaning, but is usually lost on modern students. And He told at least one parable (about the son who did NOT) that makes the point!

And the direct relevance to the thread is that men had better learn to "hearken" (shema) to Him, and Him alone.

 

[Mark C]

PS> I can't help but add that "back in the day" when American kids actually had FATHERS who understood what Keith refers to as "patriarchy" in the most basic sense,

...if a father said to his son, "You had better LISTEN to me, Son,"
that son had better understand it really does mean "hear AND OBEY."

 

[Mark C]

I am largely in agreement, Keith, but find (as you probably expect ) one significant caveat:

Maybe I'm guilty of insufficient allegiance to my side in this matter, but I pay great attention to the actual cutting edges of mainstream culture, and the way it looks to me is that, absent a revolution among polygynists that asserts itself in the main right out in the open rather than only doing so in secret gatherings in unpublished locations, it appears to me that backlash against polygyny is more likely than grand acceptance...

[because most women now are not]...

....even close to recognizing polygyny as an attractive alternative.

No amount of generally-timid (not that yours is that; far from it) promotion of polygyny is going to actually turn the tide. Teaching won't do it. Women writ large can't be logically talked into anything.

Here's that caveat:

They will only come around when they're no longer rewarded for being entirely selfish, and this will require something entirely distinct from intellectual persuasion...

Agreed. BUT - it will require what the whole chapter of Isaiah 3 is leading up to:
devastation on a scale they cannot, and WILL not, imagine.

This is thus PART of that:

It will require the creation of absolute resolve among men in general to refrain from propping up the female delusion that they don't need no man.

But it won't happen, I contend (and suggest Scripture does, too)
until they (those who survive) realize that they had better accept ALL of His Word, as Written, whether they like it or not.

Thus the precise wording from Deuteronomy 21:10, and "if he take another wife," of the three 'minimum conditions,' that apply even to concubines.

What is necessary is t'shuvah, the Hebrew word that appears well over 1000 times in Scripture, usually translated as "return" (I often point out that even 'turn around - cause you're goin' the WRONG way!' is often better still) - even though many English Bibles often say "repent," a word which distorts the original intent to most people.*

In other words, Isaiah 4:1 (and then 2) can NOT happen until those who survive are dragged, kicking and screaming if necessary, to a place they just aren't even will to consider - yet.

And a necessary corollary is that this means, ALL of His Word.

See Jeremiah 3:10. It won't be "half-hearted."


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* See Ezekiel 14:6. It's "doubled."

 

[Maddog]

I am largely in agreement, Keith, but find (as you probably expect ) one significant caveat:


[because most women now are not]...


Here's that caveat:


Agreed. BUT - it will require what the whole chapter of Isaiah 3 is leading up to:
devastation on a scale they cannot, and WILL not, imagine.

This is thus PART of that:

But it won't happen, I contend (and suggest Scripture does, too)
until they (those who survive) realize that they had better accept ALL of His Word, as Written, whether they like it or not.

Thus the precise wording from Deuteronomy 21:10, and "if he take another wife," of the three 'minimum conditions,' that apply even to concubines.

What is necessary is t'shuvah, the Hebrew word that appears well over 1000 times in Scripture, usually translated as "return" (I often point out that even 'turn around - cause you're goin' the WRONG way!' is often better still) - even though many English Bibles often say "repent," a word which distorts the original intent to most people.*

In other words, Isaiah 4:1 (and then 2) can NOT happen until those who survive are dragged, kicking and screaming if necessary, to a place they just aren't even will to consider - yet.

And a necessary corollary is that this means, ALL of His Word.

See Jeremiah 3:10. It won't be "half-hearted."


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* See Ezekiel 14:6. It's "doubled."

I agree Mark, It wont happen like the gentle turning of the tide but rather a violent societal upheaval that will demand repentance and then Isaiah 4 will commence.

 

[FollowingHim]

@PeteR, are you and Kelly back home from Israel?

Yes, they are back home.

 

[PeteR]

@PeteR, are you and Kelly back home from Israel? Either way, I pray for your safety

Thank you for your prayers, and yes, we are back in the US(sr).

 

[Keith Martin]

I am largely in agreement, Keith, but find (as you probably expect ) one significant caveat:


[because most women now are not]...


Here's that caveat:


Agreed. BUT - it will require what the whole chapter of Isaiah 3 is leading up to:
devastation on a scale they cannot, and WILL not, imagine.

This is thus PART of that:

But it won't happen, I contend (and suggest Scripture does, too)
until they (those who survive) realize that they had better accept ALL of His Word, as Written, whether they like it or not.

Thus the precise wording from Deuteronomy 21:10, and "if he take another wife," of the three 'minimum conditions,' that apply even to concubines.

What is necessary is t'shuvah, the Hebrew word that appears well over 1000 times in Scripture, usually translated as "return" (I often point out that even 'turn around - cause you're goin' the WRONG way!' is often better still) - even though many English Bibles often say "repent," a word which distorts the original intent to most people.*

In other words, Isaiah 4:1 (and then 2) can NOT happen until those who survive are dragged, kicking and screaming if necessary, to a place they just aren't even will to consider - yet.

And a necessary corollary is that this means, ALL of His Word.

See Jeremiah 3:10. It won't be "half-hearted."


---------------------
* See Ezekiel 14:6. It's "doubled."

I couldn't even bother to disagree with your caveat even if I fully disagreed with it. You and I are predominantly on the same page about this. I especially agree with . . .

Agreed. BUT - it will require what the whole chapter of Isaiah 3 is leading up to:
devastation on a scale they cannot, and WILL not, imagine.

I consider longing for Isaiah 4:1 to be perverse wishful thinking.

 

[Keith Martin]

Thank you for your prayers, and yes, we are back in the US(sr).

I would have liked, hearted, loved AND laughed if I'd had the option, sir!

 

[Earth_is-]

I don't think it will get much better. Every type of sexual deviancy will be celebrated and adored, but Biblical marriage will be abhorred. By society, and especially so called Bible believing Christians.

I’m in agreement. Those that diligently seek Him and look to please God and not men; will continue to be lead to this truth - if it’s YAH’s will.

The only way I see a large shift is if there is some catastrophic event - that leads to war/anarchy; and results in a major loss of life; then it would naturally lead to polygyny, but purely from a necessity/survival scenario versus it being a social upheaval. Feminism and Instagram/social media careers would be completely worthless - especially if the power grid goes down. Instead, women would be seeking a covering from a man that can provide and protect his own household; and I don’t think anyone would care at that point if the husband already has a few wives.

 

[Mark C]

A response I just penned for another thread here* made me realize that there was an element to the "Isaiah 4 Concern" that I had not formulated the way I will now:

The kind of helpmeet that we seek here, admittedly WAY Out in the Boondocks, Off-Grid Where Most Fear to Tread, and so on,
is exactly the kind of woman who wants to "choose life" and AVOID the Isaiah 4 Pileup BEFORE we have to get there!

IOW (edited addition...):

The situation in polygyny for the Remnant who sees what's coming can well be VERY different from the bleak end of Isaiah chapter 3. But it is by no means a "popular solution," almost certainly WILL be ignored by most of the world, and will represent a "come out of her," escape path for those with "eyes to see."

But I still believe time draws short on that score.

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* https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/...compatibility-issues.16962/page-2#post-265307