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General What makes a marriage covenant?

The Revolting Man

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I was talking to @NickF recently about related issues and I realized that the covenant supporters have had to spend so much time defending the premise of their belief that they have had no space to develop it.

I’d like to change that. This thread is marked as a SUPPORT thread. It is not a place to debate these ideas. It’s a place for those who believe a covenant is a part of forming a marriage to think out loud about what constitutes a marriage covenant, what it looks like, where they see it in scripture and all of the mechanics surrounding the concept.

What is a marriage covenant? What qualifies or disqualifies any agreement from being a valid covenant? What do you think best practices bare and what’s the bare minimum standard?

Again, no debates. People are just thinking out loud here. There should be no calls for proof, multiple witnesses or pistols at dawn. What are your thoughts?
 
My thought is since western culture has so perverted meanings of words, we first must go to scripture for God's definition of the word. 284 instances of the word.

Strong's H1285​

בְּרִית bᵉrîyth, ber-eeth'; from H1262 (in the sense of cutting [like H1254]); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):—confederacy, (con-) feder(-ate), covenant, league.

Here's a decent starting point to studying and understanding what a covenant actually is.


I say before we can even have a discussion, we must be agreed on the terms and that agreement must be 100% based on scripture, and not our own idea of the meaning of the word, or western culture's definition of the word.
 
Covenant is a promise, an agreement, a contract, a proclamation, a responsibility. It can be an oath, a vow, or simply saying you will do something. A covenant can be a set of instructions. When a man takes a woman to be his. She belongs to him. He has made a covenant with her to care for her and be her man. This is at the base of all marital relationships. God himself demonstrates it through His actions towards us. A covenant is often ratified or made clear with shedding of blood.

Does a man have a responsibility towards his woman when he takes her as his? Scripturally yes. Does she have expectations? Yes. Does he have expectations of her? This relationship is quite literally according to scriptural usage of the word, a covenantal relationship. If the woman was a virgin, there was likely even a token of blood shed upon the ratification of their union.
Gen 15:18
In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
This was a promise. Just like a man promises to care for his new bride. She belongs to him and he has a responsibility to care for her. She is the wife of his covenant.

Gen 26:28
And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath betwixt us, even betwixt us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;

Exo 23:32
Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

Exo 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Eze 16:8
Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Jer 22:9
Then they shall answer, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God, and worshipped other gods, and served them.
Adultery and idolatry are basically the same thing.

Isa 57:8
Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.


Pro 2:17
Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
The guide of her youth is the duke or master. And she forgot the covenant. What is the context? She's an adulterous woman who left her husband and abandoned the covenant of marriage that God joined together.
Eze 17:13
And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:

Mal 2:14
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.


Our relationship towards God and His towards us is described OVER AND OVER in scripture as a covenant. It is also described as a marriage. Or a marriage covenant.

Deu 29:12
That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

Deu 31:16
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

The went whoring after other gods and broke the covenant with Yah. What covenant? The allegory time and again is a marriage allegory throughout ALL of scripture.

Deu 31:20
For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.

Jos 23:16
When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.

And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

1Sa 18:2
And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.

1Sa 11:1
Then Nahash the Ammonite came up, and encamped against Jabeshgilead: and all the men of Jabesh said unto Nahash, Make a covenant with us, and we will serve thee.

When my wife joined me, she made a covenant to obey me, and follow wherever I led.

2Ki 11:17
And Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people, that they should be the LORD'S people; between the king also and the people.

This covenant made some people belong to one master. Are we seeing any parallels here?

2Ki 23:3
And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

What does a woman do when joining herself to a man, she makes a covenant to follow and obey only him just as we covenant with God to follow and obey only Him.

What is a covenant? It's repeated hundreds of times as God's promises and commands between Himself and His brides.
Men, when you tell your wife to get something done. That is called a covenant. When you set forth rules for how people will conduct themselves in your house, that is a covenant. When you took your woman and made her yours. You made a covenant with her before God who joined you two together, this covenant you should not break, nor should she. This covenant IS the marriage relationship. This is exactly how God has modeled it for us. This is how even a betrothal carries the same weight as a fully consummated marriage. A covenant was entered into when authority and headship is transferred from the father to the new bridegroom. Sex only seals the covenant. It's the final piece, but it is not needed to set apart the bride for the bridegroom.

The bride already belongs to the bridegroom. He has bought and paid the price, we are set aside and told to have no other master than Him. He is going to prepare a place for us, to bring us to the chamber. We are told to wait with lamps full of oil and trimmed, looking earnestly for His coming. The covenant has been made, price paid, the promise (covenant) exchanged, we belong to him in truth.

This is the quintessential beauty of covenantal relationship that God has shown us through His instruction, His commands and His example. We are to model our actions from His. And the way he enters into relationship with His bride is a covenant. The way we enter into our relationships with our brides is the same model. A covenant.
 
Covenant is a promise, an agreement, a contract, a proclamation, a responsibility. It can be an oath, a vow, or simply saying you will do something. A covenant can be a set of instructions. When a man takes a woman to be his. She belongs to him. He has made a covenant with her to care for her and be her man. This is at the base of all marital relationships. God himself demonstrates it through His actions towards us. A covenant is often ratified or made clear with shedding of blood.

Does a man have a responsibility towards his woman when he takes her as his? Scripturally yes. Does she have expectations? Yes. Does he have expectations of her? This relationship is quite literally according to scriptural usage of the word, a covenantal relationship. If the woman was a virgin, there was likely even a token of blood shed upon the ratification of their union.
Gen 15:18
In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
This was a promise. Just like a man promises to care for his new bride. She belongs to him and he has a responsibility to care for her. She is the wife of his covenant.

Gen 26:28
And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath betwixt us, even betwixt us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;

Exo 23:32
Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

Exo 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Eze 16:8
Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Jer 22:9
Then they shall answer, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD their God, and worshipped other gods, and served them.
Adultery and idolatry are basically the same thing.

Isa 57:8
Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.


Pro 2:17
Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
The guide of her youth is the duke or master. And she forgot the covenant. What is the context? She's an adulterous woman who left her husband and abandoned the covenant of marriage that God joined together.
Eze 17:13
And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:

Mal 2:14
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.


Our relationship towards God and His towards us is described OVER AND OVER in scripture as a covenant. It is also described as a marriage. Or a marriage covenant.

Deu 29:12
That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

Deu 31:16
And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

The went whoring after other gods and broke the covenant with Yah. What covenant? The allegory time and again is a marriage allegory throughout ALL of scripture.

Deu 31:20
For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.

Jos 23:16
When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.

And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

1Sa 18:2
And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. 4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.

1Sa 11:1
Then Nahash the Ammonite came up, and encamped against Jabeshgilead: and all the men of Jabesh said unto Nahash, Make a covenant with us, and we will serve thee.

When my wife joined me, she made a covenant to obey me, and follow wherever I led.

2Ki 11:17
And Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people, that they should be the LORD'S people; between the king also and the people.

This covenant made some people belong to one master. Are we seeing any parallels here?

2Ki 23:3
And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.

What does a woman do when joining herself to a man, she makes a covenant to follow and obey only him just as we covenant with God to follow and obey only Him.

What is a covenant? It's repeated hundreds of times as God's promises and commands between Himself and His brides.
Men, when you tell your wife to get something done. That is called a covenant. When you set forth rules for how people will conduct themselves in your house, that is a covenant. When you took your woman and made her yours. You made a covenant with her before God who joined you two together, this covenant you should not break, nor should she. This covenant IS the marriage relationship. This is exactly how God has modeled it for us. This is how even a betrothal carries the same weight as a fully consummated marriage. A covenant was entered into when authority and headship is transferred from the father to the new bridegroom. Sex only seals the covenant. It's the final piece, but it is not needed to set apart the bride for the bridegroom.

The bride already belongs to the bridegroom. He has bought and paid the price, we are set aside and told to have no other master than Him. He is going to prepare a place for us, to bring us to the chamber. We are told to wait with lamps full of oil and trimmed, looking earnestly for His coming. The covenant has been made, price paid, the promise (covenant) exchanged, we belong to him in truth.

This is the quintessential beauty of covenantal relationship that God has shown us through His instruction, His commands and His example. We are to model our actions from His. And the way he enters into relationship with His bride is a covenant. The way we enter into our relationships with our brides is the same model. A covenant.
That’s a lot of great information. So any kind of promise can be a valid marriage covenant? I’m not asking stupid questions.

I was involved in a very messy divorce where the two views on the marriage were so wildly divergent that an outside observer wouldn’t have been able to connect the two if he heard them separately.

The question is what are the mechanics of a covenant that would make a “marriage” legally binding?
 
That’s a lot of great information. So any kind of promise can be a valid marriage covenant?
No, the relationship as mirrored in our relationship to God is called a covenant. It's what the thing is called. Like a 4570 government lever action is a rifle. A marriage relationship is a covenant. Not all covenants are marriages, all marriages are covenants. Not all rifles are a 4570 lever action, but they're all rifles. Again, this all comes down to the definition of the word.
I was involved in a very messy divorce where the two views on the marriage were so wildly divergent that an outside observer wouldn’t have been able to connect the two if he heard them separately.
Sounds like there was a disconnect on the definition of the relationship. Seems to be a recurring theme.
The question is what are the mechanics of a covenant that would make a “marriage” legally binding?
Yaknow how this can be answered? I bet you can guess. ;)
 
This is the exact same issue Maddog just had. Trying to figure out what a word means without reading what God says the word means. Despite the show you put on, you’re one of the most intelligent men on this forum.

Proverbs 28:9

Read the scriptures. Get Yah’s definition of what covenant means. There’s no point in discussing what all these other passages mean when the basics haven’t been defined. I read them all on Saturday. Didn’t take that long.
 
This is the exact same issue Maddog just had. Trying to figure out what a word means without reading what God says the word means. Despite the show you put on, you’re one of the most intelligent men on this forum.

Proverbs 28:9

Read the scriptures. Get Yah’s definition of what covenant means. There’s no point in discussing what all these other passages mean when the basics haven’t been defined. I read them all on Saturday. Didn’t take that long.
I’m sorry but slogging through 284 verses and then reconciling them is not basic. Then teasing out how all of those inform marriage is a whole other level. And what you end up with are broad principles, not concrete, practical instructions.

It’s a worthwhile project but has a low probability of producing an answer we could get any kind of consensus on.
 
If adultery is SO bad (which I agree), why did God not proscribe the mechanics of the Covenant? I think He did in form when the Covenant was made to Israel. (By the way, I am still chewing on the "contronym" thing.) God the Father said in short "If you.... then I will..."
I think Ezekiel provides a few good hints.
Malachi is an ominous warning to be sure.
 
If adultery is SO bad (which I agree), why did God not proscribe the mechanics of the Covenant? I think He did in form when the Covenant was made to Israel. (By the way, I am still chewing on the "contronym" thing.) God the Father said in short "If you.... then I will..."
I think Ezekiel provides a few good hints.
Malachi is an ominous warning to be sure.
Still, why not make it all simple and incontrovertible?
 
I’m sorry but slogging through 284 verses and then reconciling them is not basic.
If culture has perverted the meaning of the word, we need to understand the meaning of the word first, and that definition should come from God, not my imagination, or the culture I live in. So yes, reading a couple hundred verses is basic, It should take a couple hours. That's not a big deal.
Then teasing out how all of those inform marriage is a whole other level. And what you end up with are broad principles, not concrete, practical instructions.
Aha! And until you have the broad principles and scriptural definitions of those words, it is patently absurd to think it's possible to discern what those concrete practical instructions even mean. How in the world are you going to sacrifice a lamb to Yah if you don't even know what the word sacrifice means?
It’s a worthwhile project but has a low probability of producing an answer we could get any kind of consensus on.
On the contrary, until everyone is actually talking about the same thing, consensus is impossible. The first step is knowing what God says on a matter before we can know what we think on the matter.
 
If adultery is SO bad (which I agree), why did God not proscribe the mechanics of the Covenant? I think He did in form when the Covenant was made to Israel. (By the way, I am still chewing on the "contronym" thing.) God the Father said in short "If you.... then I will..."
I think Ezekiel provides a few good hints.
Malachi is an ominous warning to be sure.
YES! This is fantastic!
God has not given us numbered lists for how to do all the things. He hasn't given men a bullet point instruction manual for "How to Love your women". He's given us a couple guard rails, boundaries, hard lines to not cross in the form of laws. And all the rest of our instruction is "BE HOLY as I am holy." We are given His example. God has modeled holiness and righteousness for us. Why do this? So we can see how to do what He would do. Because what He would do is exactly what He would have us do.

God has modeled for us dozens of times how to be to a wife, what we should be to a woman. He's done it over and over and over between Him and Israel. His relationship to us is the model for our relationship to our women.
 
If culture has perverted the meaning of the word, we need to understand the meaning of the word first, and that definition should come from God, not my imagination, or the culture I live in. So yes, reading a couple hundred verses is basic, It should take a couple hours. That's not a big deal.

Aha! And until you have the broad principles and scriptural definitions of those words, it is patently absurd to think it's possible to discern what those concrete practical instructions even mean. How in the world are you going to sacrifice a lamb to Yah if you don't even know what the word sacrifice means?

On the contrary, until everyone is actually talking about the same thing, consensus is impossible. The first step is knowing what God says on a matter before we can know what we think on the matter.
That’s backwards, crawl, walk, run sir.
 
Not backwards to learn definitions and concepts before learning details.

That can also be akin to requiring someone to obtain a Master's degree in music theory before they're allowed to listen to the radio.

Let me simply say that when I married my husband I truly did not understand what I was doing or what I was getting into. The ceremony was nice but it did not resonate with me (autism I suppose) that I was now married.

What did resonate with me was my wedding night and the irreversible decisions and things that took place that night.

Only AFTER all of that did I start to learn about Christianity, definitions, and concepts. I understood the details just fine.
 

Marriage Covenant = Submission Agreement/Contract​

 
That can also be akin to requiring someone to obtain a Master's degree in music theory before they're allowed to listen to the radio.

Let me simply say that when I married my husband I truly did not understand what I was doing or what I was getting into. The ceremony was nice but it did not resonate with me (autism I suppose) that I was now married.

What did resonate with me was my wedding night and the irreversible decisions and things that took place that night.

Only AFTER all of that did I start to learn about Christianity, definitions, and concepts. I understood the details just fine.
I'm not saying one must understand everything about marriage to become married to a husband. Nor am I saying everyone must do a word study.

But if you're going to argue about this and try to hammer out what God's Word says about a certain topic. We 100% cannot create our own definitions or use modern day perverted definitions and overlay that onto scripture and think we will be anywhere near the truth.

We must ensure that we aren't using the modern day definition of "anybody can be a woman" and use that perversion to try and make sense of scriptural instructions for a woman. Similarly we cannot use the modern day definition for "marriage" (monogamous heterosexual or monogamous homosexual) and apply that definition to scripture. God's word does not include gay men as being in a God approved relationship. If you want to call that "marriage", then God's word does not call gay men shacking up "married". If having sex means one is married, then Gay men are indeed "married" according to God's word. Obviously God's word DOES NOT say they are married. Definitions matter.

My point is we have to be all reading from the same book, with the same definitions for the words if we actually want to be talking about the same thing, otherwise all this discussion is completely pointless.

If we're both talking about Paris and arguing about what landmarks are there. But unbeknownst to us, I'm talking about Paris TX, and you're talking about Paris France, then we aren't even talking about the same thing because the definitions are different.

It's like discussing the second amendment with rabid fascist leftists. They think "well regulated" means what it means today which is "lots of government red tape, rules and restrictions". But the definition of that phrase back then was "functioning well and properly". Using the wrong definition for a word can completely change not only the arguments but basically the whole discussion, making it all but impossible to actually come to any kind of understanding or agreement on what the passage even means, let alone coming to any kind of understanding or common ground.
 
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