Who is like God?
New Member
Dear Nathan and Biblical Family,
Please read "Our Polygamy Story" both in introductions and prayer requests to be caught up to speed. I "Who is like God?" posted them that might be an easier way to search. Who is like God? = Micah and my wife Beloved Lily = Amy.
We thought that things were going well with Alaynna, a desired candidate for a secod wife. She had not expressed disgust or even hinted that she thought that it was a superbly destructive sin. She had said that it was not for her, and that she did not think that she could ever see herself in the position, but then again that is what I said before I was motivated to make up my mind one way or the other. We had spent the last three months building a relationship with her and talking and discussing polygyny with her and she agreed at least once if not twice that it was most likely Biblical, but did preference such comments that it made her uncomfortable but that is as far as it went. She totally left out the feelings that are expressed in the letter below which was in response to us telling her that we saw her as a daughter of the Most High and as a qualified women to be a second wife and if she was at all interested in this we could perhaps begin to develop the relationship further and work out the social difficulties. Apologizing at least twice if we were to forward and had offended her. Well we obviously offended her because we were blindsided with some views that we did not think she held ... at least not so firmly by the letter below.
"Micah and Amy,
Saturday, I was so excited to see all those flowers and that super neat manikin! A
nice early birthday present from my two friends. How awesome!... until I opened the
letter that came with it. I was and still am horrified and revolted, to say the least, at
this sexual perversion whitewashed as God’s calling and blessing. I met the floor in
sorrow wanting to vomit.
Micah, the past several months I have been uncomfortable in your presence...
especially after hearing about your thoughts on polygamy. I kept telling myself I
was reading inappropriateness into your compliments and references and emails
that weren’t really there. But, then I received your letter. I was beyond sad and
angry when I saw the length and start of it. My fear became reality …a married man
claiming that he is in right standing with Christ is pursuing me as a SECOND wife!!
How atrocious! Any woman who accepts an offer as this does not see herself as God
sees her. I weep for these women.
As disgusted as I am, I believe I understand your offer to come from a perspective
of misguided care and love. But, oh! How you are SO wrong! Please, I plead with you
to open yourselves up to hearing the Holy Spirit of God. And hear me when I tell you
that I have received this letter not as caring or loving, but as thoughtless, deviant,
disgusting and lustful.
Setting aside for the moment my biblical views on this, how could you even ask
me this or offer yourself to me when I have made it clear to you both that I do not
want this type of lifestyle. My husband will be mine and mine alone. Were you
not listening to me? You obviously were not. Or are you overcome by so much
selfishness and pride that you could not hear the truth?
When have I ever given you the idea that a) I condone this lifestyle or b) that I am
interested in you? I need to make myself very clear when I say ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
And with this, you have proven yourselves as fools and easily misled. I know that
might be blunt and harsh, but I feel completely betrayed and preyed upon. I feel so
violated in my trust and our friendship. I can never again trust you, my former good
friend Amy, with information about my life.
Oh Amy… I know the answer, but still I have to ask you… Did you know about
this!? I can only assume that you did and are in full support of it, and thus, Amy,
I must tell you that I love you, but this act of pursuing me for your family in this
manner has destroyed our relationship. How you both have grieved me deeply!
And this proposal has forced me to refrain from your company. May it be clear
that my friendship with both of you is in fact severed. I don’t see how it is possible
for me to ever be comfortable in your presence again Micah. And Amy, I’m just at
a loss for words… I am crushed that you, my friend, would be so cruel. To ask me
to participate in this kind of a relationship makes me feel as though neither of you
have any idea who I really am. I am so very grieved that you have brought this upon
yourselves.
Micah your letter mentions the good Lord many times, and how you believe God
called you to practice this “blessing.” Where does Scripture call this lifestyle
a “blessing”? Yes, men of faith in the Scriptures have practiced such a lifestyle –
this I will not deny. But it is important to recognize that godly men sometimes
do very stupid things that God tolerates. I remember you saying to me that you
view a marriage as “better” with multiple wives. I believe God when He displayed
perfection in humanity before the fall in the Garden of Eden. He created Adam and
Eve. He did not then create Eve#2 for Adam. This is “perfection” for marriage: one
(1) man and one (1) woman.
I have not expressed my views on truth very strongly with either of you previously
for one main reason: both of you are quite strongly opinionated, and more often
than not, closed off to others’ opinions. On this topic, I believed you to have already
decided your stand, and thus, you were only sharing your thoughts to enlighten me
and others with your “wisdom”. But this view on polygamy must be re-evaluated
in humility, inviting the Holy Spirit’s guidance in the name of Jesus Christ. All evil
must be cast out, and you must seek godly council rather than looking to books and
obscure authors telling you what you want to hear.
I am concerned the enemy has a hook around you and am lead to believe you are
overcome by an evil spirit and not thinking clearly. I am concerned that you have
allowed pride to get comfortable. Amy, I am concerned that you have given your
husband license to lust and call it righteous – this is not a blessing of God. I beseech
you to submit to God and resist the enemy.
I am pained at the decision you are forcing me to make. We were such very good
friends. Please know this brings me many tears and great pain. Please humble
yourselves.
“A righteous man falls seven times and seven times he gets back up.”
To God be the glory and power and dominion forever.
Alaynna 8/31/10
PS. The early birthday gift will be coming back to you."
For some reason I am thinking the early birthday gift some how aggravated the situation.
We promptly followed up the letter apologizing for our "foolish and rash actions" See the email below.
"I am so so so sorry that we hurt you. I had no intentions of making you become so disgusted or repulsed by us. Honestly we had no idea that you were so vehemently against the idea. We thought you were interested in knowing more about it biblically and thought that you had agreed that it had support. We had thought you might not be interested in the lifestyle for yourself but wanted to let you know that we valued you as a godly woman. The letter was never intended to pressure you nor to make you feel uncomfortable or revolted.
We never meant to prey upon you in any way. I’m so sorry you were uncomfortable with Micah’s previous actions, I wish you were able to tell me. He in no way meant to be inappropriate. He is not lustful Alaynna, he truly sees you as Christ sees you and doesn’t lust after you but instead values you as a woman of God. The letter’s intended purpose was to tell you we saw another option when you might not have considered it. We thought that you might not be interested in a polygamous relationship but we had no idea you would have such a strong reaction. We still wanted to be friends even if you weren’t interested. We were being upfront and not deceitful in being interested. That does not mean that you and Micah couldn’t remain just friends nor did it mean that we expected you to have feelings for Micah. It had come to a point where Micah could develop feelings for you and we were not wanting to betray our friendship by developing these feelings in secret instead we thought Micah could approach you with the idea and you could either be interested in it or deny it and he would know more on which way to proceed. Micah is embarrassed that you think of us that way and that you thought he was inappropriate and will immediately be more aloof in future contacts and I will go to great lengths to make you not feel uncomfortable again. I am so sad that our actions have caused such a severe hurt and we apologize for our actions that led to your grief and horror.
I had no intentions of being cruel, in any way. I truly think of polygamy as a natural extension of marriage and have never thought of it as disgusting; I’m so so sorry I didn’t understand your position on it. I should have been more sensitive and thoughtful. Please forgive us. I had no idea you found the lifestyle repulsive or deviant.
We will re-evaluate our view on polygyny once again as our insensitivity has affected you so.
Please, please reconsider severing our friendship. I didn’t mean to betray you. I never once thought I was betraying you or I never would have done it. I value you as a friend immensely. I am so sorry for hurting you.
Please keep the birthday gift as it was my idea totally separate from the letter. I thought it would be perfect for your booth and it was an early birthday present so that you could have it at the fairs.
Please let me call you and also express how sorry I am for not being more aware of your feelings and of your viewpoint on this subject. I really really don’t want to loose you as a friend and I want to make amends for the betrayal you feel..
If you are not willing to let me call you perhaps we could find a mediator to try and better understand each other and hopefully save our friendship."
And after finding out that several people in our small town know already including our Fathers, our Pastor of our Old Church Rich Hay (Who is also the Godfather of our son) the elders of the same church, Alaynna's family (all of them though this is more assumed but with her strong reaction there is little doubt) and I am sure that countless others as from past experiences the community there is not so great about keeping there mouth shut; except for when the disagree with polygyny, but have no Biblical grounds to back themselves up and dare not to go toe to toe with us in a logical argument. We received the letter below and out quite shaken by it ... no amount of expecting really compares to experiencing. Here is the letter.
"Dear Micah and Amy,
We were so relieved at your expression of sorrow and regret at the loss of Alaynna’s friendship
over your unwise pursuit of polygamy. We hope this means your reconsideration will lead you
to recant and abandon this lifestyle.
If you sincerely want to begin the reconciliation process with Alaynna, the leadership of OBF,
and your fathers, we ask you to attend a meeting for this purpose after church this Sunday (9-5-
10). Hopefully, they will all be there.
This is not going to be a theological argument on polygamy. It’s not about trying to get you to
change your view. It is about repairing the damage to those mentioned above because you hold
and acted on these views. We are all deeply affected and shocked and are asking you to recant
the practice and pursuit your views as unwise and destructive.
When anyone holds an obscure theological position that damages and severs their
most significant relationships…it doesn’t matter how “right” it might be, it is forbidden
biblically. That is the whole argument Paul makes in I Cor. 8 about meat sacrificed to idols.
Polygamy is not the issue. Holding any biblical belief that may be lawful, but proves to be
destructive is prohibited.
Simply put, we are calling on you to confess, recant and desist all pursuit of this exceedingly
destructive and perverse view. No justification. No excuses. No long drawn out discussions.
Either yes or no.
As you consider, please remember that Paul said, he wished everyone was single, unmarried,
in order to pursue ministry. Celibacy is the biblical ideal. If one wife is a distraction how much
more would multiple wives be?
It appears you have nearly destroyed all ministry opportunities to pursue more wives…the
opposite of clear biblical teaching.
May God’s grace, mercy and peace be to you. May His Holy Spirit enlighten, convince and lead
you in all humility to submit to God ordained spiritual council.
In Christ’s love - for the church and leadership of Olympic Bible Fellowship,
Pastor Rich Hay"
We are still a little shell shocked not that he wants to talk to us but that he has already elevated to the the second to last discipline structure of the church and although we thought that we had a relationship with him he has totally skipped the meeting with us in private. We are quite aggravated by the fact that although we discussed this issue, polygyny, (and mentioned that we thought it would be great to practice) with both he and his wife extensively and by his own mouth he said that it was biblical but that it should not be practiced because the government says it is illegal and then the next visit not more then two weeks we discussed the versus that say to honor, respect, and (Peter) submit to the governing authorities and again from their own mouth they agreed that there was definitely a time when that was not necessary to obey the authorities and furthermore they pointed out that if you choose to disobey the government authorities then mainly the verses say that you should be prepared to suffer the consequences from such authorities. The discussion was quite lengthy and the point was made that you can honor and respect and even submit (if you look at the Greek word) and still be respectfully disobeying and especially disagreeing. In the end we commented that a lot of people, Christians, hide behind these verses instead of standing and even acting on what they know is right and Biblical.
To make a long story short we are a little at a loss on where to proceed next. We are sorry that we caused a severance in the body and that Alaynna feels that we have personally attacked and injured her. (We were convicted that we should not continue to become such good friends with Alaynna without at least making sure she understood where we were standing. Honesty is of course a betrayal.) We understand that our actions were a bit rash and are grievously sorrowful that they have caused so much "pain and horror", but we are not sure what we can do about the demands listed in the letter partially because they are unclear.
Thus far our plan of attack is to pray about it and try to get a nights sleep and pray about it some more. Then some time tomorrow compose a letter stating that we will not be available for the requested date as we have previous plans (which we do) and also stating that we feel that it is unfair to inflame such a social faux pax and immediately bring us to the second level of church discipline with very little (time) notice. We are also going to request that Rich and his wife meet with us Sept. 7th or there about as we know they will be down our way (Picking up my best friend which is their son). We are going camping with my father this weekend and so I will talk to him about it hopefully, he might just stick his head in the ground, and ignore the entire issue. Amy's father we will only see briefly as we are picking up a tent at the house ... I am thinking that a letter maybe written to present to him and try to tell our side of the story because I am sure what he has heard is greatly over exaggerated. Although we know that his comment which we heard from Amy's mom who is still on our side, but was excommunicated for initiating the divorce between Amy's parents, "Lisa did you know that they had intentions of practicing POLYGAMY! Polygamy, that is just horrible! MUCH much prayer is needed and I apologize for the length. Any advice or encouragement would be greatly appreciated because well we have never been here before. :? :? :? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :? :shock: :shock: :? :shock: :shock:
Please read "Our Polygamy Story" both in introductions and prayer requests to be caught up to speed. I "Who is like God?" posted them that might be an easier way to search. Who is like God? = Micah and my wife Beloved Lily = Amy.
We thought that things were going well with Alaynna, a desired candidate for a secod wife. She had not expressed disgust or even hinted that she thought that it was a superbly destructive sin. She had said that it was not for her, and that she did not think that she could ever see herself in the position, but then again that is what I said before I was motivated to make up my mind one way or the other. We had spent the last three months building a relationship with her and talking and discussing polygyny with her and she agreed at least once if not twice that it was most likely Biblical, but did preference such comments that it made her uncomfortable but that is as far as it went. She totally left out the feelings that are expressed in the letter below which was in response to us telling her that we saw her as a daughter of the Most High and as a qualified women to be a second wife and if she was at all interested in this we could perhaps begin to develop the relationship further and work out the social difficulties. Apologizing at least twice if we were to forward and had offended her. Well we obviously offended her because we were blindsided with some views that we did not think she held ... at least not so firmly by the letter below.
"Micah and Amy,
Saturday, I was so excited to see all those flowers and that super neat manikin! A
nice early birthday present from my two friends. How awesome!... until I opened the
letter that came with it. I was and still am horrified and revolted, to say the least, at
this sexual perversion whitewashed as God’s calling and blessing. I met the floor in
sorrow wanting to vomit.
Micah, the past several months I have been uncomfortable in your presence...
especially after hearing about your thoughts on polygamy. I kept telling myself I
was reading inappropriateness into your compliments and references and emails
that weren’t really there. But, then I received your letter. I was beyond sad and
angry when I saw the length and start of it. My fear became reality …a married man
claiming that he is in right standing with Christ is pursuing me as a SECOND wife!!
How atrocious! Any woman who accepts an offer as this does not see herself as God
sees her. I weep for these women.
As disgusted as I am, I believe I understand your offer to come from a perspective
of misguided care and love. But, oh! How you are SO wrong! Please, I plead with you
to open yourselves up to hearing the Holy Spirit of God. And hear me when I tell you
that I have received this letter not as caring or loving, but as thoughtless, deviant,
disgusting and lustful.
Setting aside for the moment my biblical views on this, how could you even ask
me this or offer yourself to me when I have made it clear to you both that I do not
want this type of lifestyle. My husband will be mine and mine alone. Were you
not listening to me? You obviously were not. Or are you overcome by so much
selfishness and pride that you could not hear the truth?
When have I ever given you the idea that a) I condone this lifestyle or b) that I am
interested in you? I need to make myself very clear when I say ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
And with this, you have proven yourselves as fools and easily misled. I know that
might be blunt and harsh, but I feel completely betrayed and preyed upon. I feel so
violated in my trust and our friendship. I can never again trust you, my former good
friend Amy, with information about my life.
Oh Amy… I know the answer, but still I have to ask you… Did you know about
this!? I can only assume that you did and are in full support of it, and thus, Amy,
I must tell you that I love you, but this act of pursuing me for your family in this
manner has destroyed our relationship. How you both have grieved me deeply!
And this proposal has forced me to refrain from your company. May it be clear
that my friendship with both of you is in fact severed. I don’t see how it is possible
for me to ever be comfortable in your presence again Micah. And Amy, I’m just at
a loss for words… I am crushed that you, my friend, would be so cruel. To ask me
to participate in this kind of a relationship makes me feel as though neither of you
have any idea who I really am. I am so very grieved that you have brought this upon
yourselves.
Micah your letter mentions the good Lord many times, and how you believe God
called you to practice this “blessing.” Where does Scripture call this lifestyle
a “blessing”? Yes, men of faith in the Scriptures have practiced such a lifestyle –
this I will not deny. But it is important to recognize that godly men sometimes
do very stupid things that God tolerates. I remember you saying to me that you
view a marriage as “better” with multiple wives. I believe God when He displayed
perfection in humanity before the fall in the Garden of Eden. He created Adam and
Eve. He did not then create Eve#2 for Adam. This is “perfection” for marriage: one
(1) man and one (1) woman.
I have not expressed my views on truth very strongly with either of you previously
for one main reason: both of you are quite strongly opinionated, and more often
than not, closed off to others’ opinions. On this topic, I believed you to have already
decided your stand, and thus, you were only sharing your thoughts to enlighten me
and others with your “wisdom”. But this view on polygamy must be re-evaluated
in humility, inviting the Holy Spirit’s guidance in the name of Jesus Christ. All evil
must be cast out, and you must seek godly council rather than looking to books and
obscure authors telling you what you want to hear.
I am concerned the enemy has a hook around you and am lead to believe you are
overcome by an evil spirit and not thinking clearly. I am concerned that you have
allowed pride to get comfortable. Amy, I am concerned that you have given your
husband license to lust and call it righteous – this is not a blessing of God. I beseech
you to submit to God and resist the enemy.
I am pained at the decision you are forcing me to make. We were such very good
friends. Please know this brings me many tears and great pain. Please humble
yourselves.
“A righteous man falls seven times and seven times he gets back up.”
To God be the glory and power and dominion forever.
Alaynna 8/31/10
PS. The early birthday gift will be coming back to you."
For some reason I am thinking the early birthday gift some how aggravated the situation. We promptly followed up the letter apologizing for our "foolish and rash actions" See the email below.
"I am so so so sorry that we hurt you. I had no intentions of making you become so disgusted or repulsed by us. Honestly we had no idea that you were so vehemently against the idea. We thought you were interested in knowing more about it biblically and thought that you had agreed that it had support. We had thought you might not be interested in the lifestyle for yourself but wanted to let you know that we valued you as a godly woman. The letter was never intended to pressure you nor to make you feel uncomfortable or revolted.
We never meant to prey upon you in any way. I’m so sorry you were uncomfortable with Micah’s previous actions, I wish you were able to tell me. He in no way meant to be inappropriate. He is not lustful Alaynna, he truly sees you as Christ sees you and doesn’t lust after you but instead values you as a woman of God. The letter’s intended purpose was to tell you we saw another option when you might not have considered it. We thought that you might not be interested in a polygamous relationship but we had no idea you would have such a strong reaction. We still wanted to be friends even if you weren’t interested. We were being upfront and not deceitful in being interested. That does not mean that you and Micah couldn’t remain just friends nor did it mean that we expected you to have feelings for Micah. It had come to a point where Micah could develop feelings for you and we were not wanting to betray our friendship by developing these feelings in secret instead we thought Micah could approach you with the idea and you could either be interested in it or deny it and he would know more on which way to proceed. Micah is embarrassed that you think of us that way and that you thought he was inappropriate and will immediately be more aloof in future contacts and I will go to great lengths to make you not feel uncomfortable again. I am so sad that our actions have caused such a severe hurt and we apologize for our actions that led to your grief and horror.
I had no intentions of being cruel, in any way. I truly think of polygamy as a natural extension of marriage and have never thought of it as disgusting; I’m so so sorry I didn’t understand your position on it. I should have been more sensitive and thoughtful. Please forgive us. I had no idea you found the lifestyle repulsive or deviant.
We will re-evaluate our view on polygyny once again as our insensitivity has affected you so.
Please, please reconsider severing our friendship. I didn’t mean to betray you. I never once thought I was betraying you or I never would have done it. I value you as a friend immensely. I am so sorry for hurting you.
Please keep the birthday gift as it was my idea totally separate from the letter. I thought it would be perfect for your booth and it was an early birthday present so that you could have it at the fairs.
Please let me call you and also express how sorry I am for not being more aware of your feelings and of your viewpoint on this subject. I really really don’t want to loose you as a friend and I want to make amends for the betrayal you feel..
If you are not willing to let me call you perhaps we could find a mediator to try and better understand each other and hopefully save our friendship."
And after finding out that several people in our small town know already including our Fathers, our Pastor of our Old Church Rich Hay (Who is also the Godfather of our son) the elders of the same church, Alaynna's family (all of them though this is more assumed but with her strong reaction there is little doubt) and I am sure that countless others as from past experiences the community there is not so great about keeping there mouth shut; except for when the disagree with polygyny, but have no Biblical grounds to back themselves up and dare not to go toe to toe with us in a logical argument. We received the letter below and out quite shaken by it ... no amount of expecting really compares to experiencing. Here is the letter.
"Dear Micah and Amy,
We were so relieved at your expression of sorrow and regret at the loss of Alaynna’s friendship
over your unwise pursuit of polygamy. We hope this means your reconsideration will lead you
to recant and abandon this lifestyle.
If you sincerely want to begin the reconciliation process with Alaynna, the leadership of OBF,
and your fathers, we ask you to attend a meeting for this purpose after church this Sunday (9-5-
10). Hopefully, they will all be there.
This is not going to be a theological argument on polygamy. It’s not about trying to get you to
change your view. It is about repairing the damage to those mentioned above because you hold
and acted on these views. We are all deeply affected and shocked and are asking you to recant
the practice and pursuit your views as unwise and destructive.
When anyone holds an obscure theological position that damages and severs their
most significant relationships…it doesn’t matter how “right” it might be, it is forbidden
biblically. That is the whole argument Paul makes in I Cor. 8 about meat sacrificed to idols.
Polygamy is not the issue. Holding any biblical belief that may be lawful, but proves to be
destructive is prohibited.
Simply put, we are calling on you to confess, recant and desist all pursuit of this exceedingly
destructive and perverse view. No justification. No excuses. No long drawn out discussions.
Either yes or no.
As you consider, please remember that Paul said, he wished everyone was single, unmarried,
in order to pursue ministry. Celibacy is the biblical ideal. If one wife is a distraction how much
more would multiple wives be?
It appears you have nearly destroyed all ministry opportunities to pursue more wives…the
opposite of clear biblical teaching.
May God’s grace, mercy and peace be to you. May His Holy Spirit enlighten, convince and lead
you in all humility to submit to God ordained spiritual council.
In Christ’s love - for the church and leadership of Olympic Bible Fellowship,
Pastor Rich Hay"
We are still a little shell shocked not that he wants to talk to us but that he has already elevated to the the second to last discipline structure of the church and although we thought that we had a relationship with him he has totally skipped the meeting with us in private. We are quite aggravated by the fact that although we discussed this issue, polygyny, (and mentioned that we thought it would be great to practice) with both he and his wife extensively and by his own mouth he said that it was biblical but that it should not be practiced because the government says it is illegal and then the next visit not more then two weeks we discussed the versus that say to honor, respect, and (Peter) submit to the governing authorities and again from their own mouth they agreed that there was definitely a time when that was not necessary to obey the authorities and furthermore they pointed out that if you choose to disobey the government authorities then mainly the verses say that you should be prepared to suffer the consequences from such authorities. The discussion was quite lengthy and the point was made that you can honor and respect and even submit (if you look at the Greek word) and still be respectfully disobeying and especially disagreeing. In the end we commented that a lot of people, Christians, hide behind these verses instead of standing and even acting on what they know is right and Biblical.
To make a long story short we are a little at a loss on where to proceed next. We are sorry that we caused a severance in the body and that Alaynna feels that we have personally attacked and injured her. (We were convicted that we should not continue to become such good friends with Alaynna without at least making sure she understood where we were standing. Honesty is of course a betrayal.) We understand that our actions were a bit rash and are grievously sorrowful that they have caused so much "pain and horror", but we are not sure what we can do about the demands listed in the letter partially because they are unclear.
Thus far our plan of attack is to pray about it and try to get a nights sleep and pray about it some more. Then some time tomorrow compose a letter stating that we will not be available for the requested date as we have previous plans (which we do) and also stating that we feel that it is unfair to inflame such a social faux pax and immediately bring us to the second level of church discipline with very little (time) notice. We are also going to request that Rich and his wife meet with us Sept. 7th or there about as we know they will be down our way (Picking up my best friend which is their son
). We are going camping with my father this weekend and so I will talk to him about it hopefully, he might just stick his head in the ground, and ignore the entire issue. Amy's father we will only see briefly as we are picking up a tent at the house ... I am thinking that a letter maybe written to present to him and try to tell our side of the story because I am sure what he has heard is greatly over exaggerated. Although we know that his comment which we heard from Amy's mom who is still on our side, but was excommunicated for initiating the divorce between Amy's parents, "Lisa did you know that they had intentions of practicing POLYGAMY! Polygamy, that is just horrible! MUCH much prayer is needed and I apologize for the length. Any advice or encouragement would be greatly appreciated because well we have never been here before. :? :? :? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :? :shock: :shock: :? :shock: :shock:
