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Whose birthday is it really?

CharityNeverFaileth

CharityNeverFaileth

New Member
Was Christ really born on December 25? Does the bible really say he was born December 25 and if so where? Just curious what you all think or say.

~Asia
 
Asia,

I went and looked at all four gospels, chapter 12, verse 25. I did not find anything regarding birthdays.

Maybe I need a better concordance. :D

Walt
 
Asia,
There are those on the board who can provide a detailed response. Mine is rather simple, a specific date is never mentioned and in fact, may have been a different time of the year. If memory serves, I believe celebrating it was established early in the church history. As a starting point, you might check out the wikipedia for some of the history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas
Merry Christmas!
Chris
 
It wasn't December, as shepherds wouldn't have been out in the fields watching their flocks at night in the middle of the winter - their flocks would have been in folds near the town. We don't know the actual date. The date we celebrate Christmas was picked by the church for somewhat contentious reasons - but given that we don't know the actual date anyway, it doesn't really matter what day we use in my opinion. I find it great that on December 25th we have an opportunity to remind the secular world around us about Christ in a way that resonates with them for cultural reasons, the tradition may be contentious in some ways but it has large benefits for evangelism.

For instance, yesterday I watched the Queen's Christmas speech on TV (not something you'd get in the USA, but it gets broadcasted throughout the Commonwealth). Every Christmas she is on television screens in homes across the world, and always brings her message back to Christ and how we should be turning to Him. People listen to her because of who she is and because it's traditional to hear her message on Christmas day, where she discusses the highlights of the past year - and at the same time, people who would never otherwise hear the Gospel are reached for Christ. That is just one example of the many ways Christians take this opportunity to spread the Gospel every year through the Christmas celebrations.

It doesn't really matter when He was born. We can teach people about it whenever they are open to hearing.
 
It is also conveniently situated close to Saturnalia/Yule/Winter Solstice, all the better to make the transitions easier for the Heathens.
 
Bels, your statement about heathens cracked me up.. :)
May you enjoy this time of the year, whichever holidays you celebrate.
 
In our house the end of the Queen's speech meant the beginning of party games :)

There is something very unifying about the Queen's speech and it does bring people together and focus them back on the things that are important. Feeling the need to google it and watch it.

We actually do have some fairly accurate ways to tell when Jesus was born based on what was being read in the synagogues which followed a set schedule. It seems to have been mid-September ish. It is not something that seems important to me, so I have not paid too much attention. You can figure out when John the Baptist was conceived based on the prayers his Dad was making at the time and from there follow it to when Jesus should have been born.

Walt makes the point that birthdays are not celebrated and that is why you see Jehovah's Winesses and others deciding that they will not celebrate birthdays. I personally find that a little legalistic - it does not say you should NOT celebrate them either. As long as it does not become an idol in your life I do not see the harm.

Similarly with Christmas. I find the people who spend more time effort and attention on all the reasons NOT to celebrate Christmas for their religious reasons, miss out just as much as the irreligious ones who come get their presents and miss the point of Christmas altogether. There is a downside if I appear to be too legalistic.
 
Actually, Walt was attempting a bad joke, and deliberately poking fun at folks who practice 'gematria.' There is clear evidence in scripture that all of the patriarchs knew how old they were in years, how old they were when their firstborn son came, for example. There is no example in scriptures that I can think of in celebrating one's birthday. Some have suggested that Job's kids were doing that, and Herod when he was danced for, but I don't really see it.

Is it wrong to celebrate birthdays? Kinda doubt it. There are no clear 'thou shall' or 'shall nots'.

What is clear is the whole chapter of Leviticus 23 is devoted to explaining when and how to keep dates that seem to be important to the Creator.

And in that chapter and every other, I have not found a command for any other celebrations except those listed in Lev 23 and elsewhere. (I believe the Sabbaths are implied in Lev 23).

We must all come to our own conclusions based upon careful study of the scriptures, and sometimes a little jog into history explains why things are and how they got there.

Walt
 
Eternitee, it's probably on YouTube, I watched last years one there. It's very good too. I'd encourage the American audience here to watch one and see why you should have stuck with the Monarchy instead of running off and getting a heathen president. :D
 
The actual date of Christ's birthday is not the point, I am making the point I am making is that; every single thing that we do surrounding "Christmas" is practicing pegan things and celebrating their "gods". By chopping down the tree and decorating it in fine tinsel is all an idol and your bringing glory to their gods as in had been said in Jeremiah 10:1-4 (KJV). If you look into history of the catholic church you will find that this is all the work of Constantine and making "Christmas" Christian.

And the god Tomaz (the sun god) was born near December 25 so which son/sun are you giving credit to?

G-D has written His story upon the stars so if you get a book called Witness of the Stars by Bullinger and Bullinger has done extensive research to find that Christ's birthday was indeed in the middle of September just by simply looking at the stars from history. And also Victor Paul Wierwille he wrote a book called The Promised Seed and he has done even more research to find the very day Christ was born. Genesis 1:14 "And G-D said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" Why is this important? Cause the Wise Men wouldn't have known the coming Messiah was born yet until G-D wrote it upon the stars and that is how they began their quest to see the Messiah.
 
It's only bringing honor to those gods if one does it with the intent of worshiping those gods. In other words, I believe in situations like this that it's the thoughts in your mind and the intent of your heart. I believe the Apostle Paul covered this type situation.
 
CharityNeverFaileth said:
And the god Tomaz (the sun god) was born near December 25 so which son/sun are you giving credit to?
Click to expand...
The "god Tomaz" was never born on any date. But somebody made up a story about something sometime...
G-D has written His story upon the stars so if you get a book called Witness of the Stars by Bullinger and Bullinger has done extensive research to find that Christ's birthday was indeed in the middle of September just by simply looking at the stars from history.
Click to expand...
I'm sure some pagan god was "born" in mid-September also, so that would also be equally an evil time to celebrate by that logic.

I agree the real date is probably more likely September than December. And I agree that much of the ritual around Christmas stems from paganism. But given the culture we live in, we can do a lot of good by working within that culture to promote Christ, just as Paul did to the Greeks when he found the altar to the unknown God. There is little wisdom in abandoning this opportunity in my mind.
 
I thought at first since on many many things we all agree on lots of things concerning the bible accuracy so I thought that it could be a healthy disscusion, but I feel as though I am wrong and that in return I am hurting people's feelings so I'll stop it now there is no reason to continue this if I am just going to hurt people's feeling even more.

I do respect everyone's right to celebrate Christmas anyway they wish or want so for that reason I am sorry for hurting anyone's feelings and I appolgize in advance to anyone who may read this in the future and take offense to what I have said or started.

Much Love,
Asia
 
Much love back.

I really don't think anyone is actually getting their feelings hurt.

I have found that within Biblical Families there are as many different religious viewpoints as there are members. Most of us are deeply religious and have heard and been exposed to all the arguments and the relevant scriptures you are quoting. We understand your position and I am sure, given time, there will be people who post who agree with you (even people who I like and admire and consider to be my friends).

I do not think you ignited a firestorm of controversy - this is territory that has been covered before and I am sure will be covered again :)
 
I wasn't offended either, but of course I am not Christian, nor do I celebrate Christmas.
Most people I know personally celebrate Christmas from a more secular viewpoint and don't care much for any sort of religious importance to it beyond Nativity plays at schools. Nor do I know anyone bothered by the Pagan roots or trappings of Christmas. (Bringing in the green, Saturnalia, stars, the Sun God etc). Personally I find it fascinating to hear what religious Christians think, as I don't really know any in person.

Bels
 
This all started with Nimrod and Semiramis . Then the great whore or Catholic church came in years later. Trying to justify their observance of the time of year. So they thought they could bring Christ into the season for this reason. Most people say Merry Christmas, break it down and you have Mary Christ mass. What order do Catholics worship? Now God says to watch out for the traditions of man for a reason, once you let satan in, even for a tradition, he is hard to get back out.

Dairyfarmer
 
Charity, I'm certainly not offended and I doubt anyone else is either. The fact we are willing to actually state our disagreement and have a robust discussion is a good thing. None of us would ever learn anything if we only talked about things we already agreed on.
 
I completely agree with DairyFarmer.

I stopped doing traditional Christmas 6 1/2 years ago and it was hard at first and have been accused by many for they thought it was un-Christian of me to make this decision, but neither could they ever justify their actions. I really just wanted to see as to whom observes Christmas traditionally and to whom who choose to not do traditional Christmas. Although I do not do traditional Christmas, but at the same time I do not do nothing. My husband and I exchange gifts and give thanks unto G-D for bringing His son to us, we just don't exchange gifts on Christmas day.

Thanks to all who have given me their point of view. For this site has given me much insight on how people do things.

~Asia
 
I certainly wouldn't think you are being un-Christian. You have studied the scriptures carefully, decided what you believe they mean, and acted on this to follow God, even though others disagree with you. You have probably looked more carefully into this issue than most of the people who criticise you. Trying to follow God to the best of your ability is a very Christian attitude.

Having come to believe that it is wrong to celebrate Christmas, it would actually be sinful for you to celebrate it. Read Romans 14. Sin is first and foremost about the heart - if you believe something is wrong, yet do it anyway, you are delibrately choosing to disobey God. That is sin - whether your belief is right or wrong has nothing to do with it.

Good on you.

But I still disagree. :D
 
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