whose disciple are you?

[steve]

i am having some confusion over the word "disciple" and how it is used.

in the king jim the word is translated from the greek word mathetes. this word (mathetes) is used 269 times in the king jim.
it was only used for some of the followers of Yeshua, john the baptist, moses, and (in one instance) the pharisees.
i could not find mention of any of paul's disciples, nor of any of the other apostles.

technically it means learner or student, but the usage seems much more restricted. has the meaning been dumbed down so greatly that we are now disciples of everyone that we learn anything from?

i am not a scholar nor pretending to be one, i am just trying to discuss my observations. if i am wrong please enlighten me.

steve the disciple

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

You are right that the word disciple is indeed a term that carries the connotation of being a student. Literally one could translate Matthew 28:19 as "go and make followers/imitators/students of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe/obey all that I have commanded you."

The key to the idea of that process is not to make them a disciple of YOU but through you as they are a disciple of you they are also in line with Christ Jesus. The disciple who makes another disciple is not the ultimate key to the process though certainly a part of that process. That is why Paul chided the Corinthians (1 Cor. 3:1-9) because they were trying to pit one leader against another by saying they followed Paul or Apollos. Paul's point to them was that they as their leaders were servants of Christ and their efforts were not to make the saints pawns of themselves but rather they were agents in the process to make the saints like Christ which they were not doing by their jealousy (vs. 3). Here Paul reveals great skill in his teaching and training as he revealed humility and pointed things back to Christ and at the same time pointed out that their selfish ways were evident in trying to claim submission to one leader over and against another. Paul's response was that they as leaders were all pointing them to Christ who they all as leaders were serving. He pointed out that it was God who gave the growth and that they as leaders were the workers and the Lord himself was the one who gave the growth and made their efforts productive.

But we see that Paul did expect people to follow him as he followed Christ (1 Cor. 11:1). Thus to follow another is to be a disciple or follower. But the key is to where is the ultimate focus being placed. If the one doing the discipleship is trying to make the person focus on him rather than on Christ then it is the wrong type of discipleship. But if the disciple of a disciple is being taught the Word and how to apply and live it out in order to be more like Christ it is a healthy form of discipleship.

Too, in a broad sense anytime you read anything and receive it from another you are a student or disciple of that other person.

A good example of this is with those who cannot read the original languages of the Bible. For those who cannot or even for those who can but still for ease use translations they in a broad sense are a disciple of the translator or team of translators. When a person opens up a dictionary and reads from let's say Noah Webster's dictionary they are a disciple, student, of him.

The definition for disciple though is presented in a variety of terms throughout the Bible. The literal essence of the term is: "one who follows."

That definition applies to a variety of terms and spheres. A child is a disciple, student or one who follows his parents (see Ephesians 6:1-4). Elders have those who follow them, they are the sheep or the flock or the children (see 1 Peter 5:1-5; 3 John 4). Teachers who have students who come to them to learn are followers, learners, or disciples of the teacher (One of Jesus most commonly designated titled was teacher). Beloved ladies under their head are students or followers of their head (Eph. 5:22).

The point is simple: when a person comes under the influence of another and voluntarily yields to that person in order to learn, grow, and mature that person has become a disciple, a learner, a follower, an imitator of the older or more mature person who is over them.

This is why we have Paul saying: "Be imitators of me as I am of Christ" (1 Cor. 11:1). It is why we have the writer of Hebrews saying: "Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life, imitate THEIR faith" (Hebrews 13:7).

Two types of discipleship exist throughout the entire Bible. Students or followers read and observed the ways and teachings of those they read and trusted. And they also had live and in the flesh leaders around them who they loved, respected, and attempted to follow.

Again though, it is not blind allegiance, nor was it a mere system of authoritarianism. Was it authoritative? Sure it was that but not authoritarianism which is a form of domineering lording it over another where the person control the person for their own end goals. Authoritative leadership has a different epistemological base, i.e. scripture properly interpreted. Authoritarianism is based upon self rule for selfish purposes and not upon biblical principle or precedent where Scripture takes the highest seat of authority.

Authoritarianism is then in essence a rule over another for the leader's own good. It seeks to maintain control long term to maintain its status or position.

Authoritative rule has a different goal. It is rule or oversight or guidance based upon a truth in order to liberate or to aid the follower in becoming more mature and for their benefit. It seeks that the one learning master the truth or principle so the disciple or student can be released to function in that sphere.

One man in particular, Bill Hull, has written some of the best works on Discipleship to date. He has a four volume set on it. (1) Jesus Christ the Disciple Maker; (2)The Disciple Making Church; (3) The Disciple Making Pastor; (4) The Complete Book of Discipleship: On Being and Making Followers of Christ. If you want to examine the subject thoroughly then his books are worth their weight in gold.

For example, in his books he gives a precise set of definitions for the biblical terms. He too agrees that the term disciple (mathetes) means "learner or follower."

We find the term also used about 28 times in the book of acts that describes the history of the disciples under the guidance of the apostles and then later the apostles and elders.

A disciple is a follower of Christ and the ways of Christ. To make a disciple involves three steps: (1) Deliverance from sin, (2) Development in character and skill or spiritual growth, and (3) Deployment into the fields to work and go make another disciple.

In essence to be a disciple means to be a follower of another who has taught you something. Everyone is a disciple of others. The real question is not is one a disciple but one of (a) to whom is one a disciple of, and (b) how good/faithful are the people over the disciple of and (c) how good at following is the student when learning a truth or piece of information.

Hull provided in his works the following too about the personal characteristics of Disciples:
-a disciple abides in Christ through the Word and prayer (John 15:7)
-A disciple bears much fruit (vs. 8)
-a disciple responds to God's love with obedience vs. 9-10)
-a disciple possesses joy (vs. 11)
-a disciple loves as Christ loved vss. 12-13).

Personal competencies of disciples:
-A disciple submits to a teacher who teaches him or her how to follow Jesus
-A disciple learns Jesus' words
-A disciple learns Jesus way of ministry
-A disciple imitates Jesus' life and character
-A disciple finds and teaches other disciples for Jesus

One of the biggest issues today due to the pride of life is many people like to be disciples of only people they can read behind as in this way they cannot be accountable to any live and in the flesh person. It works about as well as a child trying to only read and come to maturity without having anybody over his life to correct, rebuke, challenge, or personally inspire him or her on in the journey. This is why the Lord gave us more than a Bible. Reading is great and the Word is perfectly inspired. But the concept of believers in a body who challenge, correct, and inspire one another is also a key ingredient to healthy discipleship. This is the reason why older men were to train younger men and older women were to train younger women. Yet this is one largely avoided once pride sets in within the heart of a person. Pride leads one to believe he or she is self-sufficient, capable of doing the Christian life well with just God and his or her Bible, and that to admit the need for others to be involved in one's life on a personal basis is weakness when in reality to admit that is wise and a true sign of strength.

 

[Dr. K.R. Allen]

i could not find mention of any of paul's disciples, nor of any of the other apostles.

Timothy and Titus were both direct disciples of Paul. Paul even called Timothy his "true child in the faith" (1 Tim. 1:2). He also called Titus his "true child in a common faith" (Titus 1:4).

When you are examining the English Bible if you are looking for the English term disciple then you would not see those references. But if we approach the Bible on a conceptual basis, i.e. looking for the themes and definitions even in historical narrative sections of Scripture, we do see disciples of Jesus Christ being disciples or taught, trained, led, and guided underneath older brethren in the Lord.

It is in that conceptual basis where the idea of one training and one learning that we see the concept of disciples (the process of discipleship or the act of making disciples), or followers, or imitators, or students, or children all through the entire NC writings. As the examples above, Titus and Timothy were both disciples of Christ and learners or disciples or students or imitators of Paul who they saw Christ living in and through by the Holy Spirit inside of Paul.

We have to keep in mind that the term disciple is one of many English terms that is used to convey the concept or the definition of a learner or follower under another. When we work with the definition (a follower or student of another or a learner of another) and examine Scripture by that we see the concept or idea throughout the NT. It was the golden chain in the Great Commission being carried out. Paul was trained by Christ, then by Barnabas and the Jerusalem Church leaders (Acts 13), and then he later as a disciple made disciples who he taught and trained, two of which were Titus and Timothy who were his spiritual children, followers, learners, students, in the faith of Jesus Christ.

 

[steve]

disciple

American Heritage Dictionary:
dis·ci·ple



(dĭ-sī'pəl)
n. 1. a. One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.
b. An active adherent, as of a movement or philosophy.

2.often Disciple One of the original followers of Jesus.
3.Disciple A member of the Disciples of Christ.

[Middle English, from Old English discipul and from Old French desciple, both from Latin discipulus, pupil, from discere, to learn.]

dis·ci·ple
noun \di-ˈsī-pəl\

Definition of DISCIPLE

1: one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a: one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts b: a convinced adherent of a school or individual

2capitalized: a member of the Disciples of Christ founded in the United States in 1809 that holds the Bible alone to be the rule of faith and practice, usually baptizes by immersion, and has a congregational polity

— dis·ci·ple·ship noun



Examples of DISCIPLE

a disciple of Sigmund Freud
<a circle of dedicated disciples who conscientiously wrote down everything the prophet said>


Origin of DISCIPLE

Middle English, from Old English discipul & Anglo-French disciple, from Late Latin and Latin; Late Latin discipulus follower of Jesus Christ in his lifetime, from Latin, pupil
First Known Use: before 12th century


Related to DISCIPLE





Synonyms: acolyte, adherent, convert, follower, epigone, liege man, partisan (also partizan), pupil, votarist, votary

Antonyms: coryphaeus, leader

disciple


noun

1.a pupil or follower of any teacher or school of religion, learning, art, etc.
2.an early follower of Jesus, esp. one of the Apostles
3.a member of the Disciples of Christ
Origin: ME < OFr desciple & OE discipul, both < L discipulus, learner, in LL(Ec), a disciple of Jesus < *discipere, to comprehend < dis-, apart + capere, to hold (see have): infl. by discere, to learn
Related Forms:

•noun
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

noun
1.a. One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.
b. An active adherent, as of a movement or philosophy.
2.often Disciple One of the original followers of Jesus.
3.Disciple A member of the Disciples of Christ.
Origin: Middle English, from Old English discipul and from Old French desciple, both from Latin discipulus, pupil, from discere, to learn; see dek- in Indo-European roots.
Related Forms:

•dis·ciˈple·shipˌ noun
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition Copyright © 2010 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

Definition of 'disciple' Random House Webster's College Dictionary


1. (n.) disciple
any professed follower of Christ in His lifetime, esp. one of the 12 apostles.

2. disciple
(cap.) a member of the Disciples of Christ.

3. disciple
a pupil or an adherent of another; follower:
a disciple of Freud.

Etymology: (bef. 900; ME deciple (< AF de(s)ciple), OE discipul < L discipulus&equals;dis-dis -1&plus;-cip(ere), comb. form of capere to take &plus;-ulus -ule)


Definition of 'disciple' Princeton's WordNet


1. (noun) disciple, adherent
someone who believes and helps to spread the doctrine of another



Definition of 'disciple' Webster Dictionary


1. (noun) disciple
one who receives instruction from another; a scholar; a learner; especially, a follower who has learned to believe in the truth of the doctrine of his teacher; an adherent in doctrine; as, the disciples of Plato; the disciples of our Savior

2. (verb) disciple
to teach; to train

3. (verb) disciple
to punish; to discipline

4. (verb) disciple
to make disciples of; to convert to doctrines or principles



Translation of 'disciple' Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary




Sense: a person who believes in the teaching of another, especially one of the original followers of Christ
Jesus and his twelve disciples.

as you can see, i looked in a lot of dictionaries for substantiation for your use of the word. none of the professional ones define it that way.
the only one that comes close is Wiktionary.

disciple

Old English discipul, from Latin discipulus (“a pupil, learner”) < discere (“to learn”); akin to docere (“to teach”). Later influenced or superceded in Middle English by Old French deciple.
Noun

disciple (plural disciples)
1.A person who learns from another, especially one who then teaches others.
2.An active follower or adherent of someone, or some philosophy etc.

 

[steve]

i could not find mention of any of paul's disciples, nor of any of the other apostles.

Timothy and Titus were both direct disciples of Paul. Paul even called Timothy his "true child in the faith" (1 Tim. 1:2). He also called Titus his "true child in a common faith" (Titus 1:4).

this is not about who paul mentored or discipled, it is about the use of a specific greek word.

When you are examining the English Bible if you are looking for the English term disciple then you would not see those references.

please reread my op

 

[Anonymous]

Steve, I guess that makes you a disciple of several dictionaries. :lol:

Dictionaries often disagree or have different inflections of ideas. Among those you listed, notice that some identify disciples as the 12 that followed Jesus and some use the 12 as an example. But we know from reading the Bible that there were thousands that were disciples of Jesus. From them He selected 12 and named them apostles.

I am not a Greek or Hebrew scholar, but from my upbringing in Michigan with a Tennessee Father and Michigan Mom I learned that terms vary from locale to locale. My understanding of disciple has always been (1962 since) much the same as Keith presented. Any one that seeks or sits under another to learn the "discipline" of the teacher is a disciple. When my son-in-law had his martial arts school (tai-kwon-do?) in our church building, he was though of as being the teacher or master and the students were his disciples, in every sense of the word.

 

[steve]

Any one that seeks or sits under another to learn the "discipline" of the teacher is a disciple. When my son-in-law had his martial arts school (tai-kwon-do?) in our church building, he was though of as being the teacher or master and the students were his disciples, in every sense of the word.

very true, when the discipline belongs to the teacher. if jim shimono is teaching technics designed and perfected by bruce lee, then we are studying bruce lee as taught by jim shimono.
studying astronomy under dr x.
we can study art in general, or become a disciple of picasso, studying his style and methods under various teachers. none of whom we are a disciple of, because we are a disciple of picasso himself.
when we "disciple" others, we are teaching them our Saviors teachings, his doctrine. we are helping them become his disciples.
it is most common for cult leaders to own their own version of the truth, and to have disciples of their own embracing that truth.
christianity should be seamless in that what we learn from one hundred different teachers contributes to us being disciples of Yeshua, rather than being disciples of each of those teachers.

over my lifetime i have learned from literally thousands of men, women and children, here a little there a little. am i a disciple of all who have taught me? how confusing. if i found one that was correct in all that he taught i would embrace him. the last man who was 100% correct was nailed to a cross. as priest of my family it is my job to do my best to sort the wheat from the chaff. do i do it perfectly? no, but i cannot give up my accountability in that by giving it over to another.