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Because I am still very new to all of this i need help understanding.
When you are talking to someone of the opposite sex at what point does it become a courtship?
Should a woman talk to a man if his wife is not involved in the getting to know you phase?
PM feels so much more sacred than a monogamous marriage that meets worldly standards..... to me at this stage in my life anyway.
I want to be cautious so not to stumble anyone or myself. Sooo those of you in a poly marriage can you give me the lowdown LOL on how this works
I think courtship begins at the getting to know you better/deeper stage though it may or may not become official due to a lack of interest at some point or being friend zoned.
Each family has their own methods for their SW search. Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with having conversations with him. Some wives prefer not to become involved unless and until it looks more promising or serious. Some wives like to do the searching themselves, and some of them from an earlier point than others. At some point, IMO, I would advise that you insist on her knowledge and some interaction with her, though I don’t think that it has to be immediate. Though I am unaware of it from people on this site, I have seen / heard of men on other poly dating sites leading women on for some time, even to the point of being heavily emotionally invested, and then the wife or the family is really not ready for another addition and the man backs out because of so much negative pressure at home. Just be careful and guard your heart and be careful of the commitments you give.
BTW, I’m just married to one, so take it for what its worth.
Courtship is a man made concept, so as you follow any rules of courtship, just be aware of that. Scripturally there is a great deal of liberty in how one goes about it, with a few limitations. Availability for marriage is always based on the woman’s marital status, not the man’s. So as long as the woman is available for marriage there is no sin in the man and the woman getting to know one another regardless of whether or not his other woman/women know. However, you might not want to marry a man who doesn’t include his woman/women in the getting to know you phase, simply for the fact that it seems to be a lack of wisdom on his part. If he is planning to have a peaceful and happy home, having his women on board, is just a wise thing to do.
Even intimacy between a man and an available woman is not sinful, but it brings responsibilities. The righteous thing for a man who has been intimate with an available woman to do is to take her as his woman.
There is no strict definition of courtship and many varied traditions. I've seen some versions of 'courtship' which look more like 'dating daddy'. I'm starting to see hints of the same in polygamy but it's more 'dating mommy'.
I read your post, Have you prayed and put God first by reading the Bible. He needs to be the foundation and cornerstone in everything. If you have not I would challenge you to. It is very easy to let your emotions get in the way. God will show the way if your in the right
with him.
There is no strict definition of courtship and many varied traditions. I've seen some versions of 'courtship' which look more like 'dating daddy'. I'm starting to see hints of the same in polygamy but it's more 'dating mommy'.
Thank you to everyone who commented my questions were general and NOT implying that I am at the marriage stage or courtship stage with anyone. I have made some beautiful friends here that I talk to on a regular basis..... male and female. I was just curious of what it looks like to "court" someone. But not an implication at all..... that would just be weird to ask all of you, if I was in fact at a courtship phase with someone who is also here.... don't you think? As a mature woman I can talk to them directly LOL
I do read my Bible and commune with Yahweh/Jesus regurarly. However I am getting deeper understanding of the scriptures being here and reading the discussions. Which I love! I always pray for God to take me deeper. I hit the jackpot coming to BF LOL some stuff is way over my head at this point. It would be awesome to sit down with some of you and listen... maybe comment now and again but Kevin goes deep! LOL I like that I feel like I am feasting at times.
Marriage has always been sacred to me but I am learning a deeper understanding and appreciation. So again thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
One of the complaints about courtship as practiced in some circles is that the young men feel like they're dating the dad more than the daughter. A lot of time spent interacting with the father and jumping through his hoops with very little time spent seeing there is any kind of baseline attraction, chemistry or personality fit with the one you're actually marrying. Dating daddy. Don't take that as a knock against the patriarchal authority of the daughter; it's just I've seen fathers put together poor fits who seem to be more concerned about the suitor's adherence to the 150 points of some obscure creed than whether or not he can lead her and she can submit to him.
Likewise if the first wife is too involved in the process of bringing in a second it causes me to wonder about the hierarchy at work in the marriage. You can have cases where PM is more her idea than his and the husband is just going along. Or where the first wife will only go along if she approves the selection. Or where the wife is heavily involved in selection focusing more on her fit with #2 than his. Which is not to say you can't have a wife helping you look nor that you should give no thought to how your women's personalities gel; but remember it is primarily about the husband finding a wife, not the wife finding a sisterwife.
There are many different approaches to both PM and courtship. I'm talking about what happens sometimes, not in all cases. In the case of PM, if the husband never lets you meet with the wife for a long time that throws up one red flag. On the other hand if he has to get #1's approval for every step of the way with you or you feel like you're having to spend more time courting her than him those are different sorts of red flags.
disclosure: All this from observation not experience. I did not court my only wife (wasn't a thing where I grew up).
I met and took my wife as my woman within a few short weeks of meeting her. Began speaking affectionately and being emotionally invested / involved within days. Started planning our life together within days of meeting.... "Courtship" what's that? Lol jk
(For the record I did get approval from the daddy.)
I think there are plenty of factors involved here. Yet it shouldn't be complicated in my opinion. A man has the right and the freedom Biblically to speak with any available woman he wishes. It can very very easily go from just "chatting" to liking eachother and a growing attraction. (God designed men to take women and build family... it's who we are!!!) Keeping it appropriate is of course important. And although having current wife's approval is extremely helpful and surely wise, it's not only not necessary but also unbiblical.
This convo for many of us guys with one wifey at home gets back into the whole "monogamous vow" conversation and being "men of our word" until "released" from it by her. I like to call it "the predicament of the western married man". Sadly, the worldly western man just secretly cheats on his wife while acting on his inner polygynist instincts. While those of us with a strong Biblical worldview are being taught by the Lord to be very patient men. Lol
So there's my two cents that'll get me in trouble! :bible:
the predicament of the western married man". Sadly, the worldly western man just secretly cheats on his wife while acting on his inner polygynist instincts.
It was this realization that made me look seriously into plural marriage. I know so few men who haven't had "extramarital affairs" when i was studying my Bible Yahweh showed me that multiple wives was the "Biblical family" and that every issue that needs to be refined He states plainly how he feels and sets the standards. Such as a pastor, deacon, clergy having one wife. It is so plainly spelled out who is to only have one wife and for all others there is no law.
Secrecy is where I think I would have an issue. It becomes an affair if it is hidden and shamed. (Imo) I wouldn't want to be a part of that. Dirty little secret! Not Ok.
@Patricia C
I agree on the secrecy thing. It's not healthy.
In fact all my guy friends at work think it's crazy that my wife plays on my phone or uses my phone at home... which of course speaks to how lovely their marriages must be and the secrecy going on therein.
@rustywest4
Yea, secrets lead to lies, lies lead to deceitful behaviors. I don't have a desire to be any part of that. At all!
Honesty and trust need to be a cornerstone of any good relationship if it is to be taken seriously.
To me the getting to know you phase is just a natural part of making a friend. I've always let my wife know if I was talking to someome of the opposite sex because I don't want the jealousy that secrecy brings out to take root. If I feel that a friendship is developing I get Jessica involved in conversations because I don't subscribe to the idea of these are my friends and those are yours lets keep them seperate . This is especially true if they're of the opposite sex. That's not saying she likes all my friends, just all the ones from BF, but she knows who they are and associates with them. At the same time I don't feel the need to divulge the contents of private conversations with her. Its been my experience that secrecy leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
There wasn't really a point when Samuel and I went from talking to dating. We just sort of were. I think I sort of mentioned being a girlfriend in conversation and he sort of agreed and it just merged into that. The getting-to-know-you stage was pretty intense though, we would stay up until 2am at each other's places talking. We actually got more sleep when we got married lol, go figure.
We get hung up on being in boxes and labelling everything. Life isn't like that.
Samuel hasn't ever courted anyone, but if he was talking to another woman with a view of dating or courting or whatever in the future then I would want to know. I don't need to be involved at all, it just seems simple courtesy to me. I need him a lot at this time of life, so if he needs time to talk to someone else then I need to know to plan around that and organise our time more effectively.
I agree with the others that secrets are a bad idea. There's a big difference between secrets and privacy.
I think talking is just talking when it is talking. When you know it is something more than that, then it is something more than that.
Just make sure you are both on the same page. If in doubt, ask. Even if there is nothing there a kind person would be flattered that you asked.
As far as a married man, I think no harm to talk to. If it looks like something is developing you probably should reach out to the wife and start working on having a relationship with her, if she has not reached out to you, yet.
There are lots of Internet horror stories of single ladies talking to the man about plural marriage and then when they finally get to talk to the wife she is 100% opposed and is very hurt and angry and not at all something that you would want to step into the middle of which is not at all the way the husband represented it.
I am usually the last to know, but at some point in the talking all of a sudden it hits you on the side of the head "Oh! There is something there." When that happens to me, the first thing I do is instroduce her to my wife if they are not already freinds so they can start building thier relationship. I am usually interested in my wife's opinion. She is usually a good judge of character and it is always interesting to compare notes.
I think once there is the possibility of a relationship then the interaction becomes more purposeful. You do things more to get to know the other person on a deeper level and know what makes them tick, what their character is like. What their relationship to the Lord is like. I recall once when a lady told me that she thought God wanted me to be her husband, and the first thing I thought was, I guess we should meet in person then. Sadly we were not able to arrange a meeting, so that pretty much failed at the start (I proposed that her, my wife and myself meet for coffee, she wanted to meet one on one. Lots of ladies say they want to be friends first, but do not really mean it).
I think the older you get the more businesslike it is and less romantic (although it varies widely I think). I think maybe early in life you see plenty of romance and then crash and burn. But the couples that get to know each other on a deeper level and are of good character and have a shared vision have a better chance if getting to happily ever after.
I think plural relationships often progress faster, because first of all you both know what you want and are trying to achieve and second of all dating can be unconfortable and unstable for the first wife. The prospects gets to do all the fun stuff with no committment, yet, while the wife has to watch all of this and deal with all the regular work of a marriage. On the other hand some women are really looking forward to the addition and so do not terribly mind the transition time.
Biblically this (courtship, dating) is all sort of a gray area because Bibliically it is mostly arranged marriages.
One of the complaints about courtship as practiced in some circles is that the young men feel like they're dating the dad more than the daughter. A lot of time spent interacting with the father and jumping through his hoops with very little time spent seeing there is any kind of baseline attraction, chemistry or personality fit with the one you're actually marrying. Dating daddy. Don't take that as a knock against the patriarchal authority of the daughter; it's just I've seen fathers put together poor fits who seem to be more concerned about the suitor's adherence to the 150 points of some obscure creed than whether or not he can lead her and she can submit to him.
Likewise if the first wife is too involved in the process of bringing in a second it causes me to wonder about the hierarchy at work in the marriage. You can have cases where PM is more her idea than his and the husband is just going along. Or where the first wife will only go along if she approves the selection. Or where the wife is heavily involved in selection focusing more on her fit with #2 than his. Which is not to say you can't have a wife helping you look nor that you should give no thought to how your women's personalities gel; but remember it is primarily about the husband finding a wife, not the wife finding a sisterwife.
There are many different approaches to both PM and courtship. I'm talking about what happens sometimes, not in all cases. In the case of PM, if the husband never lets you meet with the wife for a long time that throws up one red flag. On the other hand if he has to get #1's approval for every step of the way with you or you feel like you're having to spend more time courting her than him those are different sorts of red flags.
disclosure: All this from observation not experience. I did not court my only wife (wasn't a thing where I grew up).
I feel like it is very important that a friendship and common ground be obvious before a serious friendship is pursued. That may take time for some, and for others things just click. Make sure the Lord GOD has your heart before you consider sharing it with someone else. Yeshua will NEVER lead you wrong, but your emotions sure can. In our society we use the word "love" way to casually. It can span from your pet, to a delicious hot dog, to a sunset, to a new outfit, to a song, to someone who has become very special. Be careful who you say "I love you" to.
Likewise if the first wife is too involved in the process of bringing in a second it causes me to wonder about the hierarchy at work in the marriage. You can have cases where PM is more her idea than his and the husband is just going along. Or where the first wife will only go along if she approves the selection. Or where the wife is heavily involved in selection focusing more on her fit with #2 than his. Which is not to say you can't have a wife helping you look nor that you should give no thought to how your women's personalities gel; but remember it is primarily about the husband finding a wife, not the wife finding a sisterwife.
I see courting as a more formal thing. Something that I have never gotten around to.
Without trying to follow any particular path, it always happens that we become friends and talk, realize that we are headed the same direction and agree to do it as husband and wife.
Courting is more: “Ma’am , may I take you out to dinner? I’d like to get to know you.”
:bible:
