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Random Thought on Traditions

NickF

NickF

Seasoned Member
Real Person
Male
One of the arguments against Biblical Marriage I've heard is

"It goes against the traditions of the church!"

As if that was any kind of argument to make. *rolls eyes*




Claiming that viewpoint is:
  • Holding a few hundred years of tradition higher than thousands of years of tradition in God instructing mankind.
  • Usurping God's authority by holding man's traditions higher than His Word.

What are some other valid points to shut that argument down?
 
If I am considering something that goes against Church tradition, I would certainly require a higher standard in accepting it over rejecting it. I believe that is the correct manifestation of "honoring Church tradition."
Like OP, I am also amazed when Church leaders seem to be able to think the only way to honor is to obey.
The Church offering me their traditions is like me offering my advice to a younger Christian. I feel I am honored if my advice is seriously considered... I don't think I should feel dishonored if my advice, after being seriously considered, is then rejected.
 
You can make a valid argument for the traditions of the church being a sound guide to Christianity. The core traditions have been developed over time with a great deal of scholarship and debate, and have then stood the test of time to show them to be practical. So I can understand why someone would wish to hold to church tradition, and assume that things contrary to tradition were contrary to sound doctrine.

So maybe with someone who believes deeply in church tradition, you need to approach this from the opposite angle. If church tradition is their guide to correct theology, do they follow all church tradition?

Are they a devout follower of the Orthodox or Catholic faith, and do they carefully observe all of this tradition? If so, then they are at least being consistent in their approach to the faith.

But if not, if they're a Protestant but are claiming church tradition as their guide to marriage, they're being a hypocrite. If they truly believe in church-defined monogamous "holy matrimony" they had better also go and get confirmed and say the rosary and confess their sins to a priest. If not, they don't truly believe in church tradition. They actually consider their own opinion to be more important, because they think their own opinion can tell them which traditions are right and which are wrong. They reject church tradition in favour of their own private study - they only actually follow those traditions which their own studies (or emotions) have concluded are correct.

So, what biblical studies have they done to demonstrate that this particular tradition is correct for them to follow?

Now you're back where you started, the entire argument has dissolved.
 
A suitable question in response might be along the lines of; Why did God not keep your church traditions when He gave Eve to Adam and they didn't have a traditional white wedding, with a priest/pastor or marriage licence? Did everything start out very good at Creation and deteriorate over time after sin entered, or has it been getting better and better over time?
 
Communication said:
If I am considering something that goes against Church tradition, I would certainly require a higher standard in accepting it over rejecting it.
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I agree with this statement. That said, tradition should be a guide, but it is not insurmountable. Tradition is helpful to guide us until we have time to fully research a topic for ourselves. If that study reveals tradition is wrong, then go with your personal study. If it is inconclusive, then tradition may be the more wise path.
 
NS4Liberty said:
I agree with this statement. That said, tradition should be a guide, but it is not insurmountable. Tradition is helpful to guide us until we have time to fully research a topic for ourselves. If that study reveals tradition is wrong, then go with your personal study. If it is inconclusive, then tradition may be the more wise path.
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Better to stand in the company of wise men than fools. If the tradition is sound, no problem but if we find it the belief of fools then reject it.
 
FollowingHim said:
You can make a valid argument for the traditions of the church being a sound guide to Christianity.
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I once saw an excellent defense of Catholicism that pointed out the need for tradition over sola-scriptura. It had 4-5 things that it claimed that the Bible was weak on and that we needed tradition to defend against. Interestingly polygamy was one of the items. I rejected the premise of the article, but I thought it was the best and most consistent defense of Catholicism that I had ever seen.
 
Old saying I once heard: Tradition is why we do things when we no longer remember why we do those things.

If you know why you are upholding a tradition then I can respect that. But if you're like the Muslims who do things without ever thinking about them and whether or not they glorify God then that's just stupid.

Traditions like modesty can be obviously and positively applied in the modern day. Meaning that the outcome of upholding the tradition validates the tradition as a wise practice.

This is my personal lens that I use to view and judge traditions is to ask if they make sense in the modern day and does the outcome of upholding the tradition bring glory to God? Does it make sense?

Like many churches and fellowships are against drinking alcohol. Ever. Abstinence from drink is a tradition with them.

That's nice and if they like it then fine by me. ;)

Myself, I acknowledge that the best vintner who ever lived was Himself Christ Jesus. (John 2)

So sorry to all the teetotalers and their traditions but I will enjoy myself a drink when I can because Jesus liked a decent wine Himself.

There is a tradition of docking the ears and tails of Doberman dogs because they used to be used for fighting. The tradition was upheld for long after dog fighting was outlawed and now in my opinion doing this to the dog is needless and senseless mutilation. But stupid people insist on doing it as a tradition.

The point is that traditions need to have a purpose and they should have a positive and observable outcome for abiding them.

Just my own opinions here.
 
I'm not a fan of 'church tradition.' Neither was Yahushua:

Yahushua answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.

And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

“For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men...
...making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.
...He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.”

Mark 7:6-9 (But the whole chapter makes the point!)
 
MeganC said:
Like many churches and fellowships are against drinking alcohol. Ever. Abstinence from drink is a tradition with them.

That's nice and if they like it then fine by me. ;)

Myself, I acknowledge that the best vintner who ever lived was Himself Christ Jesus. (John 2)
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I'll drink to that! 😂😂

Tradition, of itself, is not bad UNLESS the tradition superceded the command of Yah.  That was Yeshua's issue.
 
Problem with tradition it how hard it is to change it even it's (obviously) wrong.

Just consider Mariology in Catholicism. Too much vested interest in promoting it. And every year there are new people who wrongly conclude it is correct. So fight is too correct error is neverending.

At least in economic matters people out of money to finance BS. Reality can force people to correct themselves in other domains. But what is forcing people to correct themselves in spiritual domain?
 
MemeFan said:
Problem with tradition it how hard it is to change it even it's (obviously) wrong.

Just consider Mariology in Catholicism. Too much vested interest in promoting it. And every year there are new people who wrongly conclude it is correct. So fight is too correct error is neverending.

At least in economic matters people out of money to finance BS. Reality can force people to correct themselves in other domains. But what is forcing people to correct themselves in spiritual domain?
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That is why there are so many denominations, a group of people leave because they don’t agree with the traditions and start a new church.
 
Tradition is a two edged sword.

The Bible commends us to seek Godly council. Tradition is like taking council from our ancestors. It's not inerrant but it is a good gut check when studying any issue. Most people are not theologians, tradition is a good enough heuristic to go on within the context of their faith community.

That said we should be led by the spirit, not tradition, and our faith should be based on the teachings of Christ (i.e. the scriptures) and not on the fallen traditions of men. Tradition alone is not sufficient, especially when contradicted by scripture or when faced with different contradictory church traditions (and both are the case on the issue of polygamy).
 
rockfox said:
Tradition is a two edged sword.

The Bible commends us to seek Godly council. Tradition is like taking council from our ancestors. It's not inerrant but it is a good gut check when studying any issue. Most people are not theologians, tradition is a good enough heuristic to go on within the context of their faith community.

That said we should be led by the spirit, not tradition, and our faith should be based on the teachings of Christ (i.e. the scriptures) and not on the fallen traditions of men. Tradition alone is not sufficient, especially when contradicted by scripture or when faced with different contradictory church traditions (and both are the case on the issue of polygamy).
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If in doubt, stick with tradition.

Vary from tradition only when your own study gives you a strong reason to do so. Where you have not come to any such conclusion, fall back on the reasoning of generations of those who have gone before.

Tradition is a solid starting point, even though it is not always correct.
 
FollowingHim said:
Tradition is a solid starting point, even though it is not always correct.
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Tradition is only a good starting point where the tradition itself started from what God has already said; from what is written. Many traditions have started outside of what is written, e.g. the infallibility of the RCC pope but are believed and upheld by multitudes unquestionably.
rockfox said:
That said we should be led by the spirit, not tradition, and our faith should be based on the teachings of Christ (i.e. the scriptures) and not on the fallen traditions of men.
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Yes. And this is why we have the responsibility to know and uphold Scripture as Jesus did in the face of His accusers when they presented their traditions. The truth of Scripture exposed the error of their traditions. It is biblical ignorance that enslaves people to the traditions of men.
 
frederick said:
Tradition is only a good starting point where the tradition itself started from what God has already said; from what is written. Many traditions have started outside of what is written, e.g. the infallibility of the RCC pope but are believed and upheld by multitudes unquestionably.
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Of course. However, if we're talking about something that somebody has not invested a substantial amount of time investigating for themselves, the choice is between "1: doing what feels right to me without doing much research into it", and "2: doing what other Christians say to do". In that case, the best approach is almost certainly 2, because the probability of other people who have studied it getting it right is higher than the probability of you just making up the right answer without studying it. And the vast majority of theological issues are things that most Christians honestly have not even thought to study themselves in enough depth to contradict or even confirm tradition.

Now, on that much smaller subset of issues which someone chooses to dig deeply on, and study to determine what the truth is and what the origin of the tradition is - then go with the result of your study. Polygamy is the obvious example.

But on everything you have not yet investigated deeply, you could do a lot worse than just doing what your parents, grandparents and church taught you to do, because in most cases that's probably ok even if it's imperfect.
 
FollowingHim said:
If in doubt, stick with tradition.

Vary from tradition only when your own study gives you a strong reason to do so. Where you have not come to any such conclusion, fall back on the reasoning of generations of those who have gone before.

Tradition is a solid starting point, even though it is not always correct.
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Burn tradition to the ground and scatter the ashes on your compost pile. Traditions become dogmas and then commands. If you need a tradition to help you understand the Bible then you didn’t read it hard enough.
 
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