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The ungodly man

Good answer. That is what I was looking for. I have always been of the mindset that the wife could disobey her husband, if he commanded her to sin or do evil, contrary to the Word of God. I was just looking for verification of this one way or another. This is one of those things where there may not be a 100 percent clear cut answer.

There are things in the Bible that are not 100 percent clear cut. There are scriptures for and against and appear to "contradict" sometimes. God gave us a brain and the ability to figure some things out. He also gave us liberty to decide on things that he didn't give clear guidance or clear principles.

The amount of drinking you should do comes to mind as an example. There are scriptures for and against drinking alcohol. You're gonna have to decide individually how much drinking you want to do and for what reason.
Agreed, i don't drink at all. Grew up around addicts and alcoholics, knew what i didn't want. But i can't go out and preach against liqour that would be unbiblical.

Some just have weak conscience, and we aren't to go and offend those brothers.

“Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬

Completely agree with you bro.
 
Agreed, i don't drink at all. Grew up around addicts and alcoholics, knew what i didn't want. But i can't go out and preach against liqour that would be unbiblical.

Some just have weak conscience, and we aren't to go and offend those brothers.

“Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬

Completely agree with you bro.
Agree totally. In reference to drinking that's why I don't drink. I could but I choose not to. I don't want to offend others. If someone else makes another decision, then I can't fault them scripturally for doing so. My son, for example, who is 24 years old and a Bible believing Christian, drinks alcohol. When we go out to eat, he will have one drink with his meal and I will not. We each respect each others views on the topic and each person feels they are living according to the Bible. Scripturally, although I feel it is best for me not to drink, based upon not offending others and not being controlled by wine, I can't fault him for doing so based on the scriptures that say wine is OK.
 
"What then, does the female sit in judgment over the male, deciding for herself what is right and wrong?"
This is why the demising line has to be whether she will leave and contact the community about his requirements. If they don’t reach that level, then she needs to grin and bear it.
 
A righteous husband though, should never need to be defied, and it will always be wrong of the wife to do so.
There is no one righteous. And I have yet to meet the man who doesn't occassionally make mistakes. Likewise, women will err and make false judgments. But who rules who? To what extent? And for what reason?

with rending to Caesar, I do believe that is specific to things that are his. Like how Christ said, who's superscription is this? It's his image on the coin, give it to him when he asks. Yes, they've(government) been placed over us for our own good
There are many who say that taxation is theft. Now what? Should the taxman refuse to collect taxes? Should we refuse to pay? Likewise the Christian feminist, once believing she has license to judge her husband, is able to completely mangle his word, picking and choosing what to obey based on how she sees fit, will be tempted to do just that, and will feel justified. You see it everywhere. "Well, I just don't believe he can make me do this or that." "Well, I just don't agree with that." Or, my favorite, "My pastor said...." This gateway to rebellion is precisely the largest obstacle many of us face when navigating our romanticized wives toward polygyny. She was raised to believe it is wrong. Do you have to convince her you are right before she is obligated to "submit" (as if) and walk in obedience to you? Remember our perception is our reality. If we say she may judge and choose, then if she perceives something you are commanding is wrong, no matter whether it is or isn't, then we must also not compel her to obey. Otherwise the house is divided and will not stand, just as the majority today.
 
There is no one righteous. And I have yet to meet the man who doesn't occassionally make mistakes. Likewise, women will err and make false judgments. But who rules who? To what extent? And for what reason?


There are many who say that taxation is theft. Now what? Should the taxman refuse to collect taxes? Should we refuse to pay? Likewise the Christian feminist, once believing she has license to judge her husband, is able to completely mangle his word, picking and choosing what to obey based on how she sees fit, will be tempted to do just that, and will feel justified. You see it everywhere. "Well, I just don't believe he can make me do this or that." "Well, I just don't agree with that." Or, my favorite, "My pastor said...." This gateway to rebellion is precisely the largest obstacle many of us face when navigating our romanticized wives toward polygyny. She was raised to believe it is wrong. Do you have to convince her you are right before she is obligated to "submit" (as if) and walk in obedience to you? Remember our perception is our reality. If we say she may judge and choose, then if she perceives something you are commanding is wrong, no matter whether it is or isn't, then we must also not compel her to obey. Otherwise the house is divided and will not stand, just as the majority today.
No one completely righteous, yes. But those counted righteous by faith, who bear good fruit, by good trees, this is the type of righteous man that i speak of. A man who seeks after God and His will. Generally many men are called righteous or blameless in scripture, though they aren't completely, and make mistakes. I do not see it as an issue to call them righteous as long as you keep perspective that Christ is the lamb wihout blemish, sacrificed for us all.

Taxes should always be paid, that's what I see Christ as saying, as anything else that government is over, and institutes, for us. Doesn't matter what consipracy is being hatched by the federal reserve, that the people discover, to justify not paying taxes.

Well, what is subjection? It is to be in an position that is underneath another. I don't think most Christian women even understand this. Subjects is what we hear kings in movies refer to everyone else as. That is why my old english KJV bible refers to wives by, subject, like a king and his servants. Just to add perspective to the word being used. Wives are subject to husbands, Students to a teacher, a pet to its master, boss to their employee, general to a soldier. Husband and wife is a master and servant dynamic. I'm still learning like you are. But likely you have to teach her and be very adamant on the actual definitions of things. Clearly identify the feelings and the facts.
 
There is only one situation in the Bible I'm aware of that covers this case: when Abraham told Sarah to lie and say he was her brother. That almost ended in adultery.

Sarah was never chastised nor condemned for following Abraham's sinful command. To the contrary she was praised in the NT for calling him Lord.
That’s such an interesting case. I’ve always tended to see it as they lied, but I just reread the story in Genesis 20. Abraham didn’t lie and Sarah didn’t lie. God saved Sarah and blessed Abraham. God threatened Abimelech and told him to ask Abraham to pray for him. Abimelech reproved Sarah, but God didn’t. I don’t know that it really fits as an example in this case, other than to say that Sarah obeyed her husband even when the situation looked bad and God blessed them both.

Here it is if anyone wants to read it.
Genesis 20:1-18 KJV
[1] And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar. [2] And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah. [3] But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. [4] But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? [5] Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. [6] And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. [7] Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine. [8] Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid. [9] Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done. [10] And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing? [11] And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. [12] And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. [13] And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother. [14] And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife. [15] And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee. [16] And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other : thus she was reproved. [17] So Abraham prayed unto God: and God healed Abimelech, and his wife, and his maidservants; and they bare children. [18] For the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah Abraham's wife.
 
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So if the husband orders his wife to commit adultery, she is to obey the command? And yes, that could happen, some guy may get off on that.

What about murder. Suppose he tells his wife to kill another person. She has to obey?

And you're saying she should separate if she can't obey. What if she doesn't want to separate. Maybe she loves him. Should she still obey these commands?
If she can’t separate and she can’t change his mind then yes, she should obey.

Keep I mind this is the most extreme of hypothetical cases and absurd examples will necessitate absurd responses.
 
By seeing the hebrew midwives defy pharaoh in killing the hebrew children
They were not pharaoh’s wives. The relationship between a man and his women is unique in all of creation with the exception of God and Israel and Christ and the church.
likely a woman can defy her husband in sin.
When can the church defy Christ? This is when a wife can defy a husband.
Also, Shardrach, Meschach and Abednego defied the king and escaped fire
They were not wife and the king was not their hisband.
 
If she can’t separate and she can’t change his mind then yes, she should obey.

Keep I mind this is the most extreme of hypothetical cases and absurd examples will necessitate absurd responses.
I disagree completely. It may be an extreme hypothetical in your mind, but it is still a possibility, regardless of how remote it may be. The husband's authority is not absolute. He is not God. He has no authority to command his wife to commit a grave sin such as murder.

The woman is not to commit murder or adultery. Period. Doing so would be an abomination and grave sin to God. Woman may be under man, but she is still subject to the laws of God. God is higher than man, including her husband.

Period.
 
I disagree completely. It may be an extreme hypothetical in your mind, but it is still a possibility, regardless of how remote it may be. The husband's authority is not absolute. He is not God. He has no authority to command his wife to commit a grave sin such as murder.

The woman is not to commit murder or adultery. Period. Doing so would be an abomination and grave sin to God. Woman may be under man, but she is still subject to the laws of God. God is higher than man, including her husband.

Period.
Sooo, in your scenario the husband wants her to commit murder and she can’t leave him?

Just what is your definition of insanity?
Because your highly-pathetical scenario quantifies, in my book.
 
Sooo, in your scenario the husband wants her to commit murder and she can’t leave him?

Just what is your definition of insanity?
Because your highly-pathetical scenario quantifies, in my book.
I didn't say she can't leave him. I said she didn't want to leave him. She loves him. OK so substitute another serious sin in for murder. I gave another example, adultery. But feel free to substitute an equally perverse sin if that helps you.

You have it in your mind that she has to obey no matter what, no matter the command, and that violates so many commands and laws of God. Laws are not just for men, they are also for women.
 
There may be one percent of so-called Christian husbands who want their wives to murder or commit adultery for them, but the stupidity of always holding them up as examples that men should not be obeyed really gets me.
 
I didn't say she can't leave him. I said she didn't want to leave him.
I only read this far and blew up.
SHE IS INSANE AND THERE IS NO HOPE!
Stop using such a ridiculous argument.
If her husband wants her to murder……!but she doesn’t want to walk out?
Maybe they can end up in a facility that has both men’s and women’s prisons on the same compound.
 
If she can’t separate and she can’t change his mind then yes, she should obey.

Keep I mind this is the most extreme of hypothetical cases and absurd examples will necessitate absurd responses.
I'm in agreeance with you, except for sin. She can refuse to worship an idol, or murder an unborn child, or allow her children to be molested by her husband, as many are put in these direct situations.

i agree too that in such case, she probably should leave. But isn't that just a way of refusal, defiance, still?

and with Christ as husband, as you use Him for comparison, does he make his bride to do any of these things? I guess with Abraham you can say the Father almost caused him to kill Isaac.
 
I agree it's very unlikely. I admitted that. Even if it's 1 percent or .01, it could still happen. A Christian man can fall and he can do wickedly and he can give wicked commands. He has a sinful nature. It could happen.

I agree that the woman must obey husband a vast majority of time. I only gave this example to show it's not absolute. I don't believe it is.
 
I'm in agreeance with you, except for sin. She can refuse to worship an idol, or murder an unborn child, or allow her children to be molested by her husband, as many are put in these direct situations.

i agree too that in such case, she probably should leave. But isn't that just a way of refusal, defiance, still?

and with Christ as husband, as you use Him for comparison, does he make his bride to do any of these things? I guess with Abraham you can say the Father almost caused him to kill Isaac.
God is righteous and he has the authority to kill. It's his creation, he can kill anyone he wants for any reason he wants. He is not subject to our laws. Everything he does is righteous and holy. Including what we perceive to be wrong.

That said, he didn't have Abraham kill Isaac.
 
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