And people accuse us Torah keepers of legalism... Shred on bros! Tickle that harp like the king wants you dead, and bash them timbrels like the skulls of your enemies!
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Even Dragons Shall Him Praise
- Thread starter nathan
- Start date
I believe being forced to wear suits is an issue too. I just think of John the baptist:
“And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.”
Matthew 3:4
It's actually funny that baptists model themselves after baptism but John the baptist, the expert baptist, dressed like what we would consider, a caveman. and biblically, as a side question, are you a baptist if you and 95% of the church have never baptized a single person? Just thinking of what the biblical definition of a baptist would be. For most baptist churches, only the pastor is technically a baptist, no?
These verses come to mind too, over suits.
“But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.”
Matthew 11:8
“For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; and ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?”
James 2:2-4
“And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:”
Matthew 6:28
For me, being forced to wear a suit every sunday is the ultimate taking thought for raiment. I can't imagine not comparing myself to others and looking down on people, if i thought that was essential. No offense to anyone. It's easy to find one's self in the opposite group as well, looking down on those that wear suits, essentially taking thought for their raiment. So I try to just leave it there. I refuse them for myself every step of the way, and seek to fellowship with those that are persuaded by those sentiments, treating it as a non-issue.
I'm fond of their denomination as well, having grown up with it. But to me it is a denomination. It has traditions that interfere in some way, shape, or form. Either it is closer to the truth of the Word or it is further away. That is what I take denomination to mean now. Even non-denomination I consider a form of denomination.
My main concern in a church today, is do they desire to seek the complete truth of the Word, or not, regardless of denomination. That is the difference I seek to know, and from there we have a common ground to stand on.
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I’ve only been known for dressing up at weddings….ok, my own weddings. 
But I do struggle with the idea that we don’t need to “bring our best to the Master” ie, dress nicely when meeting in His name.
Unlike the animal kingdom, I prefer the females to be even fancier.
But I do struggle with the idea that we don’t need to “bring our best to the Master” ie, dress nicely when meeting in His name.
Unlike the animal kingdom, I prefer the females to be even fancier.
@NBTX11 "I do attend a Baptist church now, but it's not like that at all. We listen to CCM in church and the women wear jeans or whatever they want to church. I actually agree doctrinally with most of what the Baptists teach, but not all of course."
I also attended a n American Baptist Church I once ask the head minster why they required Baptism to join the church? Why does the human church insist on more than God does to get into heaven? I never got a answer!
I also attended a n American Baptist Church I once ask the head minster why they required Baptism to join the church? Why does the human church insist on more than God does to get into heaven? I never got a answer!
Yes and I’ve been elected by the forum to point out to you that the bride is supposed to wearing the wedding dress.I’ve only been known for dressing up at weddings….ok, my own weddings.
But I do struggle with the idea that we don’t need to “bring our best to the Master” ie, dress nicely when meeting in His name.
Unlike the animal kingdom, I prefer the females to be even fancier.
The Baptists don't believe in sprinkling or pouring. They only accept immersion. So if you came from another church and were sprinkled, they will make you get re-baptized, even if you say you had a born again experience. If you came from another church that immersed you they generally won't make you get rebaptized to join church, if it was a like minded faith church, such as another Baptist church, and possibly a Bible church or non denom church that was baptistic in nature. Other than that, they may make you get baptized again. It's just their rules and regulations that you have to be baptized to join. Their order of how things are done is get saved, get baptized, join church. I actually have a lot more to say on topics like these but I am going to be tied up all day at work so there is the quick answer.
I’ve managed to not get that confused, so far.
In Baptist circles only the pastor and a few church leaders or "assistant" pastors are allowed to baptize. I mean there are exceptions, but usually you have to be an ordained leader in the church and 98 percent of the baptizing is done by the lead pastor. That's just their philosophy of how to do it based upon their interpretation of scripture. As far as the dressing up in suits, what they say is you want to wear your best for God, as if God is impressed by your clothing. But that is their mindset. Wear the best you have in the house of God. Most people are just following what everyone else is doing. If the pastor and leaders are wearing suits and have a certain hairstyle then in order to be in the inner circle and be right with God they think they have to do that also. Same with ladies. The pastors and deacons wives are wearing long dresses all the time, if I am a good Christian lady, I have to do the same and can't wear pants. I spent decades in these types of churches, I know how they think. I went to high school in the 80s. I literally had an assistant pastor tell me to my face that a certain way I parted my hair was wrong and it was implied sinful and worldly. Yeah that happened. Some of these things don't apply to mainstream Baptists and southern baptists, but only apply to fundamental Baptists. They think everyone outside of their circles are basically wrong on the Bible and doctrines and will not fellowship with them.
I graduated from an independent baptist school and have taught sunday school and preached in their churches. I know how some of these people think. I have relatives that refuse to pick up a Bible that wasn't King James and would just as soon throw it in the trash as read it. That is how deep the brainwashing goes.
That said, I do agree with most of what the Baptists teach. They are solid on a lot of doctrine and teaching. It's just that the fundamentalists are legalistic and make up a bunch of extra biblical rules out of thin air or sketchy at best misapplied Biblical principles.
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Believers in the NT house churches gathered together in one location for fellowship, singing, and preaching. So I guess they were "members" of their local church.
But a formal membership?
Churches have made up extra requirements. I don't believe there are NT procedures for joining a church. But the church today wants to be a gatekeeper of who joins so they make rules on who can join and try to base those somewhat on scripture. Things such as being saved or being born again and being baptized. It does say they were added to the church after being baptized in the book of Acts, so you can construe that as church "membership". It just doesn't say what those procedures were for being added.
No I can’t, but maybe you can.
“…added to the number of believers.” would probably be a better translation.
As far as I can tell, there was no formal membership.
The Bible talks about "putting people out of the church". I'm thinking of the incestuous guy mentioned in 1st Corinthians.
That would seem to suggest that the church knows who is "in or out".
That said, I don't think there is anything concrete about "formal church membership" in the Bible.
Correct. There isn't. The church as some leeway on this since it isn't spelled out in scripture, as long as they don't make up crazy rules. I personally think you need to be a baptized, born again, believer in order to "join" or be an official part of a local church, if you even want to put it in those terms. I mean anyone can visit and attend though. The church is free to interpret scripture on this, as long as you understand it's an interpretation and not gospel. The problem is some churches make their loose interpretation gospel.
With the Baptists I've been around (Southern Baptists of the Calvinist persuasion, not the fundamental KJV only crowd), the timing of baptism is even more important than the method.
The don't believe in sprinkling, but they really don't believe in infant baptism (as practiced by Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, and Reformed).
They view Baptism as only being for professing believers, and that it should be by immersion.
The senior pastor usually does the baptisms, but I have seen fathers baptize their own children after profession of faith.
I think that is a good move. The only times I've seen it was with more patriarchal large homeschool type families (and those are common in our circles).
Correct, this is exactly what I've seen. All Baptists are pretty much the same on this, whether the fundamentalist crowd or Southern Baptist.
Baptism is done after "getting saved", or a born again experience. Essentially after you become a Christian. No infant baptism or baptism of small children such as toddlers, etc. No one under the age of about 5 or 6 years old gets baptized. That is usually about the lower limit of their age of accountability when a person can accept Christ.
Baptism is always, always, always by immersion. Every other form of Baptism is flatly rejected. Scripture is used such as the verses in Acts which show a man going down into the water to support their position.
Acts 8 -
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.
Baptism is never, ever, ever a part of salvation. It is purely symbolic in nature and is an outward representation of what has already happened (acceptance of Christ as your savior). They point to the fact that the thief on the cross next to Jesus was never baptized, and yet went to heaven. He simply believed in Jesus; no other actions were required. I personally believe they are right about this. Some denominations don't believe this and believe you must be baptized for the remission of sins.
I largely agree with the Baptist view on baptism. I'm not as hardcore on immersion as I am on the fact that it is for believers (following salvation).
I also appreciate "congregational rule", which also seems to be a thing with baptists. Being more"reformed baptist", I actually like "elder led - congregational rule". I don't like the hierarchy of bishops and stuff. Apostasy in denominations usually seems to flow down from the elites, bishops and seminaries.
There could be a formal shunning. I know that’s not exactly the same thing but there was a way to formally not be a member.
Exactly, membership was automatic, but shunning required action by the other members.