Meat Limits of Christian rules

[Mojo]

John McArthur. And anyone else like him.

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification.

Kings and dictators to me are a form of idolatry because these people and their sycophants hold them up as deities. Those who would bow down to them are IMHO violating the First Commandment.

Yet we have the examples of Daniel, Hananish, Mishael, and Azariah. They didn’t bow, but they also didn’t revolt.

Yes, I know the passages that say God put so-and-so in charge. That's nice. It also neatly absolves cowards and the feckless from any moral responsibility to oppose an unrighteous leader or government.

And yet another example of David who waited patiently and not in revolt of Saul. David only took up arms in “self-defense” so to speak when pursued by Saul.

See my next post.

This looks like images of Nazi Germany. Are you equating the colonist’s political disagreements with the throne of England to genocidal Germany?

 

[MemeFan]

P

And then SERIOUS people like you provide zero scriptural evidence for this…….

Because Lord doesn't establish state when giving Law.

All taxes are theft and therefore any anti-tax rebellion is justified.

 

[MemeFan]

Yet we have the examples of Daniel, Hananish, Mishael, and Azariah. They didn’t bow, but they also didn’t revolt.


And yet another example of David who waited patiently and not in revolt of Saul. David only took up arms in “self-defense” so to speak when pursued by Saul.


This looks like images of Nazi Germany. Are you equating the colonist’s political disagreements with the throne of England to genocidal Germany?

Because sometimes it's wise NOT to start civil wars.

And they did revolted by not obeying.

 

[MemeFan]

As a son you are trained up to know and understand what morality is by learning Gods laws and rules. This is so you have the ability as man to lead and guide yourself, your family, and others by them.

Being a son vs. a slave does not mean you have no restrictions and rules. God is still God. Even though he graces us by calling us sons does not negate that he is in a unfathomably higher position of respect and obedience owed. We never outgrow being a child to God. We never grow up to become an equal or independent of His laws.

Yes you can ask,and sometimes God allows more understanding. But there are times when the answer is - because God said so.

God lays out hierarchy and order to His world and our relationships with Him and others.

Another metaphor used by God is a marriage relationship. Where man is head over woman as Christ is head over church (men,)

As a wife I do find it helpful to understand what my husband wants and why. Yet it is not required of him to explain himself to me before he commands or directs me to do something. That is submission. Explaining and making sure I understand everything he asks me to do and why before it gets done would mean our family unit wouldn't function smoothly. I have submitted myself to my husband by choice. I trust he wants what is good for me and I do not have to understand everything for me to submit and accomplish what he tells me to do. I also trust that he knows and is guiding our family on biblical principles.

How much more can we trust a loving, infallible , and merciful God?
Having the ability to submit to and be Gods child is the exact opposite of being bitten in the ass.

No. Not even close.

Slave makes zero decision, while group-up person makes decisions for himself.

Slave only does dreams of others, zero dreams of himself. In fact, he is expected to sacrifice his desires for benefit of others.

Being grown-up means following your own dreams. It also means bring author of your own life. Something we got from Lord.

And being submissive means being able to incorporate your activities into plans of others. I don't expect from my wife to be so mindless.

 

[frederick]

Because Lord doesn't establish state when giving Law.

All taxes are theft and therefore any anti-tax rebellion is justified.

Have you not read that even though He didn't have to Jesus paid the Temple tax? Read Matthew 17:24-27 and you will see that paying taxes is not only the right thing to do, but even paying taxes you shouldn't have to pay is what Jesus Christ did. Follow His example and stop setting your logic above the Word of God.

 

[HomesteadWife]

No. Not even close.

Slave makes zero decision, while group-up person makes decisions for himself.

Slave only does dreams of others, zero dreams of himself. In fact, he is expected to sacrifice his desires for benefit of others.

Being grown-up means following your own dreams. It also means bring author of your own life. Something we got from Lord.

Absolutely nothing I said in my last post describes a man as a slave or not able to become an author of his own life. As a creation you still have laws and boundaries to function within. There is an enormous amount of choices and ability to live a good, exansive, and beautiful life while serving God. Yes I said serving he is still above us.
You can either serve God or mammon.

What you are pushing isn't biblical. You cant just pick and chose what part of Gods law to live by, that is Live As Thou Wilt, Which is pure luciferianism.

And being submissive means being able to incorporate your activities into plans of others. I don't expect from my wife to be so mindless.

If you consider the first part of what you said to be mindless then you aren't looking for a biblical marriage or a biblical family structure within your life. If you want an egalitarian marriage you will end up serving your wife rather than the other way around. Women were created to be men's helpmeets. Not for the man to be theirs.

Someone has to be the head of the house. If the man is not the woman is by default.

God > Christ > Men > Women > Children

 

[Mojo]

Because Lord doesn't establish state when giving Law.

All taxes are theft and therefore any anti-tax rebellion is justified.

Again, no scripture….

“Render unto Caesar….” ring a bell to you?

You’re definitely NOT a serious person to engage with.

I’m done with you on this issue.

 

[Mojo]

And they did revolted by not obeying.

Bingo! It wasn’t arms.
Thanks for conceding my point.

I’m done with you on this. Get your kicks trolling others.

 

[MemeFan]

Again, no scripture….

“Render unto Caesar….” ring a bell to you?

You’re definitely NOT a serious person to engage with.

I’m done with you on this issue.

If Old Testament law contains no state or any state mechanism, how is that no Scripture? If Scripture is silent, that's is enough.

What institution has right to collect taxes, decide what law is, provide security against foreigners and punish law-breakers? These are all markers of state. What institution in Law has monopoly on this? None, so Scripture speaks throught silence.

All that Romans establishes is need for institution to punish criminals. And Paul didn't write that as general law, so it's advice for their specific situation.

 

[MeganC]

David only took up arms in “self-defense” so to speak when pursued by Saul.

Wait...why wasn't David required to submit to the king whom God had supposedly placed on the throne? Even if that king wanted David dead then wasn't David required to submit to execution by order of the king?

 

[MeganC]

Are you equating the colonist’s political disagreements with the throne of England to genocidal Germany?

Yes. If the colonists were supposed to submit to the whims of King George then that included submitting to extermination if the king so desired it.

Or do you concede that there are times when rising up and overthrowing a government is called for?

 

[MemeFan]

Have you not read that even though He didn't have to Jesus paid the Temple tax? Read Matthew 17:24-27 and you will see that paying taxes is not only the right thing to do, but even paying taxes you shouldn't have to pay is what Jesus Christ did. Follow His example and stop setting your logic above the Word of God.

LOL,

Here is part of your Scripture evidence: verse 27

Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
So why did Jesus pay temple tax? Not to offend people. Is that valid reason? LOL. Why did Jesus qoute Scripture as valid reason to pay tax? Maybe because it doesn't exit.

I think Jesus didn't want conflict about tax because He had other priorities.

By your logic, you would have to pay anyone who will be offend because you don't want to give them money.

When do you read Scripture are you trying to read what is it written or do you read words and pull what memory already know interpretation?

 

[MemeFan]

Bingo! It wasn’t arms.
Thanks for conceding my point.

I’m done with you on this. Get your kicks trolling others.

WTF?

Your point:

Yet we have the examples of Daniel, Hananish, Mishael, and Azariah. They didn’t bow, but they also didn’t revolt.

My point.

Because sometimes it's wise NOT to start civil wars.

And they did revolted by not obeying.

You literally said they didn't revolt, I said they did. We literally disagree.

From here:

revolt — definition, examples, related words and more at Wordnik

All the words

www.wordnik.com

• intransitive verb To oppose or refuse to accept something.
• noun An act of protest or rejection.

So revolt, by english dictionary, allows posibility of nonviolent resistence and refusing to do what law says.

So when early Americans refused to pay Stamp tax before Independence war, was that revolt too? Yes.

 

[MemeFan]

Absolutely nothing I said in my last post describes a man as a slave or not able to become an author of his own life. As a creation you still have laws and boundaries to function within. There is an enormous amount of choices and ability to live a good, exansive, and beautiful life while serving God. Yes I said serving he is still above us.
You can either serve God or mammon.

You still don't get it. What is your relation with Lord?

I do expect do become co-creator, somebody who is asked about my opinions and desires.

Bible Verses about Transformed into God's Likeness

2 Corinthians 3:18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the sa

www.cgg.org

I doubt this includes just obeying as Jesus.

I also doubt Father never asked Son did He wanted to die.

Is your conception of religious life based on obeying rules or actually caring about Him? I don't see nowhere in your writing why you care about Him.

I do ask why He wants those rules because I want to understand His work. Any artist receives indirect complement when you ask him about his song, painting.....

So what is more important? Rules of Lord or Lord of Rules?

What you are pushing isn't biblical. You cant just pick and chose what part of Gods law to live by, that is Live As Thou Wilt, Which is pure luciferianism.

I never said this or implied. In morally f... times as those, you can't avoid tricky situations. Are boyfriend/girlfriend married? Is situation of friends with benefits where currently nobody is sleeping with others people marriage or not?

Questions can't be thrown away. Are those women marriable or adultery risk?

Christians can't be light on hill if all we do is hide on homesteads.

If you consider the first part of what you said to be mindless then you aren't looking for a biblical marriage or a biblical family structure within your life. If you want an egalitarian marriage you will end up serving your wife rather than the other way around. Women were created to be men's helpmeets. Not for the man to be theirs.

Someone has to be the head of the house. If the man is not the woman is by default.

I and patriarchy:

M

Post in thread 'So... What are your arguments FOR polygyny?'

Sep 6, 2022

Patriachy is natural because human society by its nature is hierarhical and because women prefer men with greater status than her own.

Current problems comes from belief in egalitarism. Men and women are completly same with few small unimportant biological differences.

• MemeFan

• 

So, real question is how did you so much missed my beliefs. I assure you, they didn't change in this domain.

No, expect more from wife than obedience. Any concubine can provide modicum of body and not spreading legs for another man. Better trained will provide obedience, house cleaning and pleaseant company.

No, marriage is alliance. I still think that without sex and children there is no reason for marriage. But nobody can detect man's BS better that his own wife.

Also, historical predecent is man finding wife before starting his career. There must be good reason for that.

And marriage where people don't become better together and help each other with survival is waste of time. Speaking somewhat from experience.

I do expect from wife to be more like @MeganC. She is able to challenge men and be more than her husband's parrot.

My worth as husband doesn't because I'm smarter, earn more or other useful bullish. It must come from masculinity, which women desire and don't want to do. Also, being useful to another doesn't require following any script.

 

[HomesteadWife]

You still don't get it. What is your relation with Lord?

I do expect do become co-creator, somebody who is asked about my opinions and desires

Bible Verses about Transformed into God's Likeness

2 Corinthians 3:18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the sa

www.cgg.org

None of the verses promise you being a co-creator or consulted on what how you desire life to be. That is narcissitic to think and unbiblical to believe. In the life to come, as believers, we will be glorified and transformed in ways we do not know. But that never put us on equal level with God.

I doubt this includes just obeying as Jesus.

I also doubt Father never asked Son did He wanted to die.

The son is God also. You are not on equal footing as God.

Is your conception of religious life based on obeying rules or actually caring about Him? I don't see nowhere in your writing why you care about Him.

John 14:15 If you love me you will keep my commandments - Love is action not feelings. Relationships are cemented on day to day actions of love and service, not just words and feelings.

I do ask why He wants those rules because I want to understand His work. Any artist receives indirect complement when you ask him about his song, painting.....

My husband is an artist. You can praise an artist and often they will enjoy telling you some about their work. But if you ask constant questions about why they did x or how they did it that is exact opposite of a compliment, it is critiquing and in many ways giving you leverage to criticize. That is dissecting their work and taking away from it. Because you are trying to break it down into parts rather than appreciate the work for the full beauty of what it is. No artist wants to reveal full secrets of his craft to others as they are part of what make his art unique.

So what is more important? Rules of Lord or Lord of Rules?

I never said this or implied. In morally f... times as those, you can't avoid tricky situations. Are boyfriend/girlfriend married? Is situation of friends with benefits where currently nobody is sleeping with others people marriage or not?

Questions can't be thrown away. Are those women marriable or adultery risk?

These questions can all be answered via biblical knowledge. Tricky or not the bible has guidelines that give you the ability to make moral decisions for every question you can have. It is each mans job to make these decisions for himself based on his biblical understanding.

Christians can't be light on hill if all we do is hide on homesteads.

As a woman my role is to be a keeper at home and helpmeet to my husband. That is the truth no matter if I live on a homestead or a large city. My husband and children are my mission field and focus.

I and patriarchy:

M

Post in thread 'So... What are your arguments FOR polygyny?'

Sep 6, 2022

Patriachy is natural because human society by its nature is hierarhical and because women prefer men with greater status than her own.

Current problems comes from belief in egalitarism. Men and women are completly same with few small unimportant biological differences.

• MemeFan

• 

So, real question is how did you so much missed my beliefs. I assure you, they didn't change in this domain.

When you are constantly stating how you deserve privileged treatment and equality with God its hard for me to not assume you are egalitarian in all beliefs. I was basing on current conversation, not knowing every post you've made on forum.

No, expect more from wife than obedience. Any concubine can provide modicum of body and not spreading legs for another man. Better trained will provide obedience, house cleaning and pleaseant company.

No, marriage is alliance. I still think that without sex and children there is no reason for marriage. But nobody can detect man's BS better that his own wife.

Also, historical predecent is man finding wife before starting his career. There must be good reason for that.

And marriage where people don't become better together and help each other with survival is waste of time. Speaking somewhat from experience.

I do expect from wife to be more like @MeganC. She is able to challenge men and be more than her husband's parrot.

My worth as husband doesn't because I'm smarter, earn more or other useful bullish. It must come from masculinity, which women desire and don't want to do. Also, being useful to another doesn't require following any script.

I agree with most of what you are saying. I don't believe anything I have said contradicts or disagrees with any of it. Being submissive and obedient does not mean being a doormat. But it does need applied wisdom of when and what to ask questions or give opinion on, especially if opinion differs.

There is a biblical hierarchy and rules for both husband and wife to operate out of. And there is much room for husband to order his household as he desires within those parameters. What works for one mans household may not for another. What one man considers respectful may be disrespect for another.

I have firsthand experienced what it is like to live in a household where the wife is consistently questioning, needing to know why or disagreeing with the husband and and know that is not how a relationship is supposed to be structured biblically. This is also not how our relationship with God is supposed to be.

And yes, this constant questioning and needing to know why/nagging is how you are portraying you believe our relationship with God is supposed to be.

 

[Mojo]

Wait...why wasn't David required to submit to the king whom God had supposedly placed on the throne? Even if that king wanted David dead then wasn't David required to submit to execution by order of the king?

But David didn’t seek to overthrow Saul, only run in self-defense. This conversation started in a defense of overthrowing a government. That doesn’t apply to David. He didn’t revolt.

 

[Mojo]

if the king so desired it.

But he didn’t.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.”

 

[MeganC]

But David didn’t seek to overthrow Saul, only run in self-defense. This conversation started in a defense of overthrowing a government. That doesn’t apply to David. He didn’t revolt.

David did not submit to Saul. That makes him a rebel. Or an outlaw. Either way.

 

[MeganC]

But he didn’t.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.”

How many latter day kings do we have around this planet? Putin, Xi, the fat guy in North Korea, the douchebags in Iran...they desire death for many people and they actively kill many people.

But hey, if submitting to such people is what makes you feel happy then do so.

Myself, when it comes to tyrants I intend to resist and, where possible, overcome.

 

[Mojo]

How many latter day kings do we have around this planet? Putin, Xi, the fat guy in North Korea, the douchebags in Iran...they desire death for many people and they actively kill many people.

But hey, if submitting to such people is what makes you feel happy then do so.

Myself, when it comes to tyrants I intend to resist and, where possible, overcome.

I’m not arguing for a monarchy. I detest the concept. God wasn’t so crazy about it either.

I’m just trying to flesh out the scriptural justification for a violent overthrowing of a monarch or any sovereign ruler. It’s lacking.

After internal pressures and reforms, the English monarch’s power was eroded anyway.

I notice ol Chuck wasn’t on your list.