1 Timothy 4 "some shall depart from the faith" "Forbidding to marry" Blasphemy!

[Mr.M]

Argue with this.

Deuteronomy 24:2 KJV - 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.

Actually study your Bibles and don’t automatically rely on some guy’s translation choices of words into English.

John 5
43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.

 

[Mr.M]

Bait refused. "Please try to stay on-topic."

John 5
43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.

 

[Mr.M]

Naturally, But that is not the only place where he speaks of being one with his father.

Here he says it again..

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Note that he is praying for us that we will also be one in him exactly as he is one with his father. If the oneness he has with his father is because he IS the father, then the oneness that we are to have would be declaring us to BE the father also. I do not believe that and I doubt you do either.

This is the proof text that the oneness that Yeshua has with his father is NOT singleness as of an entity but perfect unity. The same perfect unity that we will be able to achieve with him also one day.

Yeshua came in the AGENCY of his father. Doing the perfect will of his father. But, is not his father...

John 5
43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.

 

[Mr.M]

Looks like @Mr.M is going to get banned or exiled.

This thread is insane. Instead of telling point directly and using some scripture as proof, here communication looks like burying opponent under tons of scripture.

This is how I imagine demons of lawyers type argue. Use legalese as much as possible, nevermind if it's relevant or true. Bonus points if it makes other side bad or can accuse someone.

John 15
20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23 He who hates Me hates My Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father.
25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

2 Timothy 3
11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Yahushua HaMashiach will suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

[Mark C]

Argue with this.

He just ignores it.

 

[Mark C]

I havent heard anyone say [immaterial...] so i will assume...

The problem all along has been that you ASSUME too %$$@! much, and ignore anything that contradicts it.

 

[MemeFan]

John 15
20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23 He who hates Me hates My Father also.
24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father.
25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

2 Timothy 3
11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Nobody is persecuting you. Your social skills and social awareness are negative. Only issue is you don't noticing this.

This has nothing with Bible. In fact, you qouting Bible is proving my point.

Ask yourself, how exactly is other forum members life better by your posting?

If you has social skills you would know that people with altitude my way or you are heretic (your perfect description) aren't welcome.

 

[Mark C]

Yahushua's words are not BS, repent.

You do NOT quote Him. You quote idiots who can't read for comprehension, and put words in His mouth.

 

[Mark C]

Note on tools:

There is a profile option called "IGNORE".

Just click on Mr.M on any of the masses of redundant posts, and then, when the profile comes up, hit "IGNORE." No more notifications from this screed thread, either.

It's apropos.

 

[Mr.M]

You do NOT quote Him. You quote idiots who can't read for comprehension, and put words in His mouth.

Luke 16
18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Matthew 5
32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except [a]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

Mark 10
4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”
5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’
7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

 

[Mr.M]

Note on tools:

There is a profile option called "IGNORE".

Just click on Mr.M on any of the masses of redundant posts, and then, when the profile comes up, hit "IGNORE." No more notifications from this screed thread, either.

It's apropos.

Thanks for fellowshipping on my post/thread mark.

Hebrews 12
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:
15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright.
17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,
19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

 

[Mr.M]

Nobody is persecuting you. Your social skills and social awareness are negative. Only issue is you don't noticing this.

This has nothing with Bible. In fact, you qouting Bible is proving my point.

Ask yourself, how exactly is other forum members life better by your posting?

If you has social skills you would know that people with altitude my way or you are heretic (your perfect description) aren't welcome.

You were just saying how i was going to be banned/exiled for posting "too much" scripture.
In this same thread it has been said how it would be reasonable for me to be beat for sharing the truth.

If i do get beat or banned for sharing the truth, what do you call that friend?

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

I’m sorry sir but we’re straying too close to the line here. This line of conversation has exhausted its usefulness. Everyone has stared their opinion, no one has changed theirs. Unless someone has something new to add or a different angle to pursue then let’s leave it here for now.

TRM,

I ask you to take another look at the conduct displayed in this new members first interactions with everyone here. ARE YOU SURE, this is the kind of friends we need? I understand healthy debate but this has not been healthy since the get go!

 

[OttoM]

So when moses tells you what Yahuah says you listen.

But you deny Yahuah's words when he becomes flesh and dwells among us and directly tells us hes changing what he allowed "because of the hardness of heart"

You’re putting way too much faith in a man’s translation, which is causing you to bear false witness against the Messiah. He said he’s not changing anything in his first public address.

Let’s go to the passage and take a closer look:

Matthew 19:8
Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

That word “divorce” is terribly translated. The Greek word is ἀπολῦσαι - which means to send away. For example, that same Greek word is used in this passage:

Matthew 14:23
After He had sent (ἀπολῦσαι) the crowds away.

How come the translators didn’t say “he divorced the crowds?”

Sending away a wife without a certificate is not the righteous procedure. The righteous procedure is outlined in Deut 24:1. That did not come from Moshe. That came from the Creator. Remember - Yahushua the Messiah used the book of Deuteronomy three times against the adversary. It’s the Word of the Creator - and profitable for correction, rebuke, and training in righteousness.

Can a man righteously divorce his wife? Yes.

Can a divorced wife righteously re-marry? Yes.

Can a man righteously divorce his wife for any reason? No.

 

[Joleneakamama]

To illustrate the danger of making new doctrine out of New Testament passages...

1 Corinthians 7
39 A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
40 But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment—and I think I also have the Spirit of God.

This passage you quote is preceeded by the one that got my father in law in trouble. Here it is.

1 Cor. 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. 37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. 38So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

Now the King James has a footnote that says the word translated virgin means own virgin daughter.
I got to visit with my father in law a few times...IN PRISON, and he died there in 2020 after spending the last about 30 years of his life in a cage. The fallout in the family continued.

The translators were out of touch with the biblical CULTURE, where a man could have had a virgin in his house that could be taken as a LAWFUL WIFE. A MAID SERVANT.
The translators looked at the meaning of the greek....and "jumped to confusions" as we like to say at our house.
If my father in law had known the verses regulating polygyny, he would have known it was a wicked DEATH PENALTY OFFENSE to marry (have sex with) a woman AND her daughter or granddaughter. But he let what he read in First Corinthians trump the former instruction.

The irony is that because you are AWARE of the verse that promises "strong delusion" to those who have pleasure in unrighteousness.....and because you WANT the truth.....you feel you are immune to error and just to condemn remarried women and their husbands. The same Messiah you think spoke a new law forbidding remarriage also spoke to a woman at the well. He told her she had had FIVE HUSBANDS and the man she was currently with was NOT her husband. He did nor say she had a living husband and had commited adultery with five men after him. So was she a black widow? Were they all dead? Or might you be mistaken and suffering the strong delusion you are trying to warn everyone about?

Have you looked up in the concordance what each of those words translated "divorce/divorced" is taken from? I believe Yeshua was saying that "putting away" sending a wife away without a certificate was only right in cases of PORNIA which would include incest (not lawful marriage in the first place) and also OTHER UNIONS forbidden by YHWH like the example in Ezra where the men RIGHTEOUSLY PUT AWAY their foreign (from forbidden families of the earth) women.

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

To illustrate the danger of making new doctrine out of New Testament passages...

This passage you quote is preceeded by the one that got my father in law in trouble. Here it is.

1 Cor. 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. 37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. 38So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

Now the King James has a footnote that says the word translated virgin means own virgin daughter.
I got to visit with my father in law a few times...IN PRISON, and he died there in 2020 after spending the last about 30 years of his life in a cage. The fallout in the family continued.

The translators were out of touch with the biblical CULTURE, where a man could have had a virgin in his house that could be taken as a LAWFUL WIFE. A MAID SERVANT.
The translators looked at the meaning of the greek....and "jumped to confusions" as we like to say at our house.
If my father in law had known the verses regulating polygyny, he would have known it was a wicked DEATH PENALTY OFFENSE to marry (have sex with) a woman AND her daughter or granddaughter. But he let what he read in First Corinthians trump the former instruction.

The irony is that because you are AWARE of the verse that promises "strong delusion" to those who have pleasure in unrighteousness.....and because you WANT the truth.....you feel you are immune to error and just to condemn remarried women and their husbands. The same Messiah you think spoke a new law forbidding remarriage also spoke to a woman at the well. He told her she had had FIVE HUSBANDS and the man she was currently with was NOT her husband. He did nor say she had a living husband and had commited adultery with five men after him. So was she a black widow? Were they all dead? Or might you be mistaken and suffering the strong delusion you are trying to warn everyone about?

Have you looked up in the concordance what each of those words translated "divorce/divorced" is taken from? I believe Yeshua was saying that "putting away" sending a wife away without a certificate was only right in cases of PORNIA which would include incest (not lawful marriage in the first place) and also OTHER UNIONS forbidden by YHWH like the example in Ezra where the men RIGHTEOUSLY PUT AWAY their foreign (from forbidden families of the earth) women.

this is a very strong response!!! Kudo's for making such a strong case for truth!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr.M]

To illustrate the danger of making new doctrine out of New Testament passages...

This passage you quote is preceeded by the one that got my father in law in trouble. Here it is.

1 Cor. 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. 37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. 38So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

Now the King James has a footnote that says the word translated virgin means own virgin daughter.
I got to visit with my father in law a few times...IN PRISON, and he died there in 2020 after spending the last about 30 years of his life in a cage. The fallout in the family continued.

The translators were out of touch with the biblical CULTURE, where a man could have had a virgin in his house that could be taken as a LAWFUL WIFE. A MAID SERVANT.
The translators looked at the meaning of the greek....and "jumped to confusions" as we like to say at our house.
If my father in law had known the verses regulating polygyny, he would have known it was a wicked DEATH PENALTY OFFENSE to marry (have sex with) a woman AND her daughter or granddaughter. But he let what he read in First Corinthians trump the former instruction.

The irony is that because you are AWARE of the verse that promises "strong delusion" to those who have pleasure in unrighteousness.....and because you WANT the truth.....you feel you are immune to error and just to condemn remarried women and their husbands. The same Messiah you think spoke a new law forbidding remarriage also spoke to a woman at the well. He told her she had had FIVE HUSBANDS and the man she was currently with was NOT her husband. He did nor say she had a living husband and had commited adultery with five men after him. So was she a black widow? Were they all dead? Or might you be mistaken and suffering the strong delusion you are trying to warn everyone about?

Have you looked up in the concordance what each of those words translated "divorce/divorced" is taken from? I believe Yeshua was saying that "putting away" sending a wife away without a certificate was only right in cases of PORNIA which would include incest (not lawful marriage in the first place) and also OTHER UNIONS forbidden by YHWH like the example in Ezra where the men RIGHTEOUSLY PUT AWAY their foreign (from forbidden families of the earth) women.

So when Moses goes up the mountain and is a messenger for Yahuah you listen.. But when Yahuah makes himself flesh and dwells among us and tells us Himself you say "the danger of making new doctrine out of New Testament passages.." Its rebellion.

The woman who had 5 husbands was NOT jewish... Also she did those things when divorce was permitted because of the men's hardness of heart.

Matthew 19
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

John 5
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?
45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.

 

[Mr.M]

You’re putting way too much faith in a man’s translation, which is causing you to bear false witness against the Messiah. He said he’s not changing anything in his first public address.

Let’s go to the passage and take a closer look:

Matthew 19:8
Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

That word “divorce” is terribly translated. The Greek word is ἀπολῦσαι - which means to send away. For example, that same Greek word is used in this passage:

Matthew 14:23
After He had sent (ἀπολῦσαι) the crowds away.

How come the translators didn’t say “he divorced the crowds?”

Sending away a wife without a certificate is not the righteous procedure. The righteous procedure is outlined in Deut 24:1. That did not come from Moshe. That came from the Creator. Remember - Yahushua the Messiah used the book of Deuteronomy three times against the adversary. It’s the Word of the Creator - and profitable for correction, rebuke, and training in righteousness.

Can a man righteously divorce his wife? Yes.

Can a divorced wife righteously re-marry? Yes.

Can a man righteously divorce his wife for any reason? No.

He did NOT say He wouldn't change anything, He changed ALOT. We don't animal sacrifice anymore, no more priesthood of man, Yahushua is our eternal high priest according to the order of Melchizedek, don't judge others for how they observe the sabbath and holy days/compared to stoning people to death for working in OT.

That verse is saying he didn't come to destroy the law it doesn't say "i wont ever change anything"

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.


John 5
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?
45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.

 

[Mr.M]

this is a very strong response!!! Kudo's for making such a strong case for truth!!!!!!!!!

Interesting choice of words, "STRONG"

2 Thessalonians 2
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them STRONG delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one [c]tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

And on the cross he said "It is finished" but it was NOT finished at the time he answered the question about "putting away."

He did give us a new command that we love one another as He loved us.

He explained that desiring/coveting a married woman was adultery of the heart....but you have Him contradicting the verse He already spoke that allowed remarriage. You give a divorced woman less liberty then a slave. A runaway slave was NOT to be returned. Runaway wives are to remain single or be reconciled....but you forbid the divorced woman from fulfilling her created purpose as a suitable helper to a man.....if her first husband decided she was not suitable....or abandoned her....

...Based on a translation that obviously is imperfect.

Catholic church forbids priests marry....you also forbid marriage and deny rejected women second chances.

At least you arent lukewarm. Maybe YHWH will change your mind.