That is a great line of reasoning. I’ll have to use that next time I bump into a KJV only person.
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Adam & Eve Are Not The Parents of All the Races
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That is a great line of reasoning. I’ll have to use that next time I bump into a KJV only person.
One of the things I like about the KJV is that the biases of the translators (which every translation has) are more obvious to our modern ears. Having four centuries and numerous cultural differences between us and those translators helps their faults to stand out to us. When a translation is produced in our own time and culture, the biases are easier to miss because we may have the same ones. I think it’s good to use a range of sound translations and compare them, to draw out the meaning.
I have a photo-facsimile version of the original 1599 Geneva Bible republished by Mike Brown (Springfield/Ozark, Missouri) where he points out in the Introduction/Preface what other historians have likewise identified.
There were two main 'goals' of the 'Authorized' KJV:
1) To ELIMINATE the Oh-So-Popular 'margin notes' that literally over-filled most of the pages of the "people's English Bible." Because,
2) One of the objectives was to push the doctrine of the "divine right of kings" via subtle, but readily observed, 'twistings' of some of the stories, and later, 'letters'. (Think "Romans 13," but there are even worse examples.) Eliminating the margin notes helped a lot on that score.
It is VERY informative to compare them, side-by-side.
"Bias" might be a bit overly-generous a description...
I think the marginal notes were what killed the Geneva bible. King James actually had a sound argument against it - that people should have just the scriptures, and not risk mistaking the opinion of the translator for the word of God. I have had people quote footnotes and headings from their Bibles as if they were scripture, people do get confused. The marginal notes were well meaning, but if they had published it without them they would have eliminated the best argument James was able to use in favour of the need for a new translation. Without this the KJV might never have been made.
Nah, sorry - but I gotta disagree. He had an AGENDA. If I can find Mike's 'Preface' on-line, I'll post or link it.
Meanwhile, I did a show on this a couple months back, with another expert who made quite a few interesting points, on both that, and the "common law" that was the bane of the 'blue bloods'.
This is Brent Winters, "the Common Lawyer."
https://hebrewnationonline.com/come-out-of-her-my-people-show-mark-call-weekly-178/
(Part 1 of two interviews - both related to this topic)
I'm a little jealous that you still have a grandpa. I think we are similar in age (upper 40s right?), and I lost my last grandfather over ten years ago (and he was in his upper 90s at the time).
I would love to have a good visit with him talking about the Bible. He was a minister, imperfect to be sure, but genuinely believed in, loved, and followed Jesus. I probably could have had an honest discussion with him about polygyny and the Bible.
See, he looks that. And I look younger. But I'm actually older than him and I've just turned 40
. Samuel's grandfather is 88, and it's easy to remember how old he is because one of our sons was born on his 80th birthday. He has his great grandfather's name as his middle name. It seemed appropriate.
Of course he had an agenda, which is well documented. But he may have struggled to justify it and persuade people to actually do it without having such a plausible excuse handed to him on a platter. The marginal notes just made it that much easier for King James and greatly assisted in getting the church behind his plans.
See, he looks that. And I look younger. But I'm actually older than him and I've just turned 40
Samuel's grandfather is 88, and it's easy to remember how old he is because one of our sons was born on his 80th birthday. He has his great grandfather's name as his middle name. It seemed appropriate.
Sorry I accidentally gave Samuel credit for a decade he hasn't yet experienced. Maybe it is the wisdom he regularity shares with all of us. 
It's the lack of hair. It gives the illusion of wisdom.
It was the lack of hair, but I should have noticed that the remaining hair is still solidly brown with no apparent graying. That indicates your youth.
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Scripture states that Eve was the mother of all living. Some have taken this so far as to claim that Eve gave birth to more than people. I am not of that persuasion. For as much as man uses the imperfect language of words to communicate, the word games will continue. The word "parent" for example, means different things to different people. Mere implication requires the assumption of things not always so convenient.
Interestingly, mainstream science supports the hypothesis that all mankind comes from one mother. The genetics supports it, the forensics support it, the archaeology supports it, and history supports it. The OP is intriguing. This is not to say that the so-called human genome wasn't tampered with, but to the best of my knowledge all men are yet born of a woman. Perhaps one day this will change. I likely won't be around in this time line if it does. I'm looking forward to eternity.
*edit by author* - Unless some catastrophic event such as exposure to harmful radiation nails me I'll be going to the grave with a full head of hair. None of the men in my lineage go bald. Neither are we known for our longevity.
Interestingly, mainstream science supports the hypothesis that all mankind comes from one mother. The genetics supports it, the forensics support it, the archaeology supports it, and history supports it. The OP is intriguing. This is not to say that the so-called human genome wasn't tampered with, but to the best of my knowledge all men are yet born of a woman. Perhaps one day this will change. I likely won't be around in this time line if it does. I'm looking forward to eternity.
*edit by author* - Unless some catastrophic event such as exposure to harmful radiation nails me I'll be going to the grave with a full head of hair. None of the men in my lineage go bald. Neither are we known for our longevity.
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If anyone is interested in this, try searching for the phrase "mitochondrial eve". Genetic studies have clearly concluded all mankind came from one woman. There is a difference of opinion on how long ago this woman existed, but the basic fact has been confirmed by modern evolutionary scientists and is now incorporated even into evolutionary views on origins.
UPDATE 6/24/2023:
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I will define what "kind" is as used in Genesis. The Hebrew work is "MIYN" which means "to portion out; a sort, i.e. species:--kind." (James Strong #4327). A reminder, Yah mentions "kind after kind" ten times (In Bible Numerics, 10 is the number of Divine Perfect Order).
In Taxonomy, there are different categories (eight altogether), I'll display the bottom four:
- Family
- Genus
- Species
- Variety
Here is an example for Asians/Orientals:
- Hominidae
- Homo
- Asiaticus (Species)
- Mongols (variety)
- Korean
- Chinese
Species are fixed types and numbers ever since creation with their own special & specific characteristics (beyond just color of skin) which are maintained in succeeding generations. This was generally known by most naturalists and biologists of the eighteenth and nineteentsh centuries. In other words, a wolf could never be modified in ANY way, and would always remain a wolf. This also applies to the many species of man.
Ken Ham's video, at the beginning, seems to speak against "evolution" (which is a theory and not proven). But, the guy speaking states "we are all descendants of one set of parents, Adam & Eve." The remainder of the video, he claims, is to prove why he thinks this is true. At around the 5:15 mark, he states "because we live in a fallen world, mistakes and mutations increase from one generation to another, so, after 6,000 years we have a lot of mistakes and it's called the genetic load."
How did this guy go from Yah stating "it was good" to after the fall there were "mistakes?" Yah doesn't make mistakes!
And, the fall did not change or alter our molecular or DNA structure as that is what a mutation is. Mutations are rare, of which the vast majority would be harmful (Keeton, Biological Sciences, 3rd. Ed. (1980) p. 653.). And, modifier gene's or mutations only produce within the original species/kind.
Genetic variations can occur within a species/kind, e.g. height, shape, weight, coloration, etc. The blueprint of life (DNA) is to perpetuate a species unchanged just as Yah established in his infinite wisdom.
What the guy in this video is speaking, obviously supported and agreed upon by Ken Ham himself, is evolution in disguise. Which certainly is a load... a load of garbage!
As Dr. Prichard states in his book "The Natural History of Man, Vol. I pp. 11-13) "The law of nature decrees that creatures of every kind shall increase and multiply by propagating their own kind, and not any other."
If Yah decreed "kind after kind" then naturally you wouldn't have "one man and woman" that would have all of the DNA of all the kinds to produce all the "races." Those produced then would be "hybrids" or "mixed race." There are no hybrid races in nature, just look around.
Per Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, in his book, "On the Natural Varieties of Mankind" (London-1865, p. 195)", he states "hybrids... scarcely ever occur except through the interference of man: and then they are almost invariably sterile."
There it is... we have "mixed" peoples because man has disobeyed Yah's Law of "kind after kind." The enemy of Yah, his Son Yahshua and his people want a world of "hybrids" because this will create a uniform of brown people, more easily controlled and manipulated.
The variety of species were not created all at one time but in geographical habitats and climates established by Yah in order for them to survive.
The fossil record shows us that the more primitive species were created first and the more advanced species created last. This follows Yah's general creation order.
I'll touch on the "all domestic dogs go back to the wolf" statement at 8:27 in the video.
Here is the taxonomy for the wolf:
- Family (Canidae)
- Genus (Canis)
- Species (Lupus)
- Variety
* Gray Wolf
* Timber Wolf
* Black Wolf
Now for the domestic dog:
- Family (Canidae)
- Genus (Canis)
- Species (Graius)
- Variety
* Bloodhound
* Foxhound
* Greyhound
As you can see, the Family and Genus are the same. But, plainly, the species/kind and varieties are different. I believe this is where many get confused because many interchange the terms species, kind, etc. Which is what the guy in the video did.
If the wolf species evolved into the domestic dog species and all it's varieties, as this guy in the video states, just when did this change occur?
Egyptian tomb paintings as far back as 200 to 3500 B.C. proves there were distinct types of dogs, as exist now (Nott & Giddon, Types of Mankind (1854).
So much more could be said, but I implore you to seek, knock and ask and study to show yourselves approved.
I'll leave you with this:
Yah did not create one generalized "kind/species" from which all races are derived. Adam, like all the other races before him, were created distinct.
@PeteR @NBTX11 @FollowingHim @frederick @The Revolting Man @Bartato @rockfox
===================================
I will define what "kind" is as used in Genesis. The Hebrew work is "MIYN" which means "to portion out; a sort, i.e. species:--kind." (James Strong #4327). A reminder, Yah mentions "kind after kind" ten times (In Bible Numerics, 10 is the number of Divine Perfect Order).
In Taxonomy, there are different categories (eight altogether), I'll display the bottom four:
- Family
- Genus
- Species
- Variety
Here is an example for Asians/Orientals:
- Hominidae
- Homo
- Asiaticus (Species)
- Mongols (variety)
- Korean
- Chinese
Species are fixed types and numbers ever since creation with their own special & specific characteristics (beyond just color of skin) which are maintained in succeeding generations. This was generally known by most naturalists and biologists of the eighteenth and nineteentsh centuries. In other words, a wolf could never be modified in ANY way, and would always remain a wolf. This also applies to the many species of man.
Ken Ham's video, at the beginning, seems to speak against "evolution" (which is a theory and not proven). But, the guy speaking states "we are all descendants of one set of parents, Adam & Eve." The remainder of the video, he claims, is to prove why he thinks this is true. At around the 5:15 mark, he states "because we live in a fallen world, mistakes and mutations increase from one generation to another, so, after 6,000 years we have a lot of mistakes and it's called the genetic load."
How did this guy go from Yah stating "it was good" to after the fall there were "mistakes?" Yah doesn't make mistakes!
And, the fall did not change or alter our molecular or DNA structure as that is what a mutation is. Mutations are rare, of which the vast majority would be harmful (Keeton, Biological Sciences, 3rd. Ed. (1980) p. 653.). And, modifier gene's or mutations only produce within the original species/kind.
Genetic variations can occur within a species/kind, e.g. height, shape, weight, coloration, etc. The blueprint of life (DNA) is to perpetuate a species unchanged just as Yah established in his infinite wisdom.
What the guy in this video is speaking, obviously supported and agreed upon by Ken Ham himself, is evolution in disguise. Which certainly is a load... a load of garbage!
As Dr. Prichard states in his book "The Natural History of Man, Vol. I pp. 11-13) "The law of nature decrees that creatures of every kind shall increase and multiply by propagating their own kind, and not any other."
If Yah decreed "kind after kind" then naturally you wouldn't have "one man and woman" that would have all of the DNA of all the kinds to produce all the "races." Those produced then would be "hybrids" or "mixed race." There are no hybrid races in nature, just look around.
Per Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, in his book, "On the Natural Varieties of Mankind" (London-1865, p. 195)", he states "hybrids... scarcely ever occur except through the interference of man: and then they are almost invariably sterile."
There it is... we have "mixed" peoples because man has disobeyed Yah's Law of "kind after kind." The enemy of Yah, his Son Yahshua and his people want a world of "hybrids" because this will create a uniform of brown people, more easily controlled and manipulated.
The variety of species were not created all at one time but in geographical habitats and climates established by Yah in order for them to survive.
The fossil record shows us that the more primitive species were created first and the more advanced species created last. This follows Yah's general creation order.
I'll touch on the "all domestic dogs go back to the wolf" statement at 8:27 in the video.
Here is the taxonomy for the wolf:
- Family (Canidae)
- Genus (Canis)
- Species (Lupus)
- Variety
* Gray Wolf
* Timber Wolf
* Black Wolf
Now for the domestic dog:
- Family (Canidae)
- Genus (Canis)
- Species (Graius)
- Variety
* Bloodhound
* Foxhound
* Greyhound
As you can see, the Family and Genus are the same. But, plainly, the species/kind and varieties are different. I believe this is where many get confused because many interchange the terms species, kind, etc. Which is what the guy in the video did.
If the wolf species evolved into the domestic dog species and all it's varieties, as this guy in the video states, just when did this change occur?
Egyptian tomb paintings as far back as 200 to 3500 B.C. proves there were distinct types of dogs, as exist now (Nott & Giddon, Types of Mankind (1854).
So much more could be said, but I implore you to seek, knock and ask and study to show yourselves approved.
I'll leave you with this:
Yah did not create one generalized "kind/species" from which all races are derived. Adam, like all the other races before him, were created distinct.
@PeteR @NBTX11 @FollowingHim @frederick @The Revolting Man @Bartato @rockfox
Sorry, I was being cavalier earlier but let me be explicit now. This is all racist, sophomoric tripe. I can assure you that most of us prefer you not push it here as it will smear the entire movement.
There is one species of human and we exist in a glorious range of melanination and we are all descended from Adam through Noah. That is all.
We’d love to interact with you around the core mission of the ministry though.
@PatrickJ, the initial definition of "species" was that members within that species could breed with each other, and could not breed outside the species - which basically corresponded to the biblical "kind". This has become blurred over time as scientists have erred in their classifications but is still a basic rule.
As @The Revolting Man said however, this racism has no place here. I only posted the above not to continue an argument, but to show that your statements are easily refutable - I'm not shutting this down because we have a difference of opinion, I'm shutting it down because what you are saying is inarguably incorrect.
I will lock the thread now to stop this unprofitable discussion.
The fact that different races of people can interbreed and produce viable, non-sterile offspring, shows we are all the same species - as even your own quote above confirms. If these were "hybrids" they would be sterile. But they are not.
As @The Revolting Man said however, this racism has no place here. I only posted the above not to continue an argument, but to show that your statements are easily refutable - I'm not shutting this down because we have a difference of opinion, I'm shutting it down because what you are saying is inarguably incorrect.
I will lock the thread now to stop this unprofitable discussion.
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