@Verifyveritas76, what is the source for that historical reference?
-
Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.
Adulterers stoned?
- Thread starter steve
- Start date
@Mojo
I think VV76 is referring to the book Susanna, which is found in the Greek Septuagint (LXX) translation of the Hebrew bible, performed some 400 years before Christ.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/susanna/1.html
I have found a number of gems in Brenton's English translation of the LXX, things which I've not seen anywhere else.
I think VV76 is referring to the book Susanna, which is found in the Greek Septuagint (LXX) translation of the Hebrew bible, performed some 400 years before Christ.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/susanna/1.html
I have found a number of gems in Brenton's English translation of the LXX, things which I've not seen anywhere else.
Thanks @eye4them.
@IshChayil that’s an interesting midrash, I’d be very interested in reading it if you have the source reference handy.
This story of Susanna may be the source of the reference to Daniel in the Book of Ezekiel (28:3) Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
If I’m not mistaken, this is said about Daniel before he’s taken into captivity as a young man.
@IshChayil that’s an interesting midrash, I’d be very interested in reading it if you have the source reference handy.
This story of Susanna may be the source of the reference to Daniel in the Book of Ezekiel (28:3) Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
If I’m not mistaken, this is said about Daniel before he’s taken into captivity as a young man.
Not much better than Christian pastors that know church fathers or doctrines well but have never read the whole Old Testament...
Either a lefty denomination (reform, or "conservative" which in UK is properly called "reformed" b/c there ain't much Conservative about it any more) or chabad.
chabad is like an evangelistic branch (evangelizes Jews to come back to the faith) so they pump out rabbis fast.
Typical Chabad rabbi can't hold a candle to an Orthodox.
If I had to lay money on it I'd say your person is Reform though b/c I can't imagine chabad not knowing such a thing.
It always drives me nuts when they have a liberal denomination rabbi on the news or something; I remember one time Oreilly was interviewing a priest and a "Rabbi"
years ago and he was shocked the rabbi was pro-abortion. I was screaming at the tv "He's REFORMED!!! they don't know anything!!!"
Reform allows gay rabbis by the way...you won't ever meet an orthodox kid even who doesn't know the Bathsheba story...
In Israel it's not uncommon to hear folks making fun of Reform Jews from the states and their level of Hebrew; you'll hear folks mimicking "hamotzi lechem min haaretz" (who brings for bread from the earth) one of the 2 blessings Reform Jews know...
Last edited:
I think it's actually 2 midrashes I wove together in the telling.
I'll see if I can dig them up, I don't actually own the midrashic literature any more but sometimes it works it's way into talmud in blurbs. For sure it will be in the midrashim.
My family members in the states emptied out my storage facility for me and sent me my boxes of books. I told them they can give the programming books away just send the religious stuff, well I received some religious stuff and some boxes filled with ancient (useless) programming stuff and some of the religious stuff went to good will it seems.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
I tell myself maybe it was G-d's hand, someone who really wanted that kind of stuff may have been praying for it and got it.
I'm still rebuilding my library.
I dig around and see what references I can find.
Last edited:
hehe, putting stones down
I get the gist of what you're saying but I have to call out the misunderstanding on why Christians and most Hebrew Roots peeps toss it out.
They never researched it ever, and I mean ever.
In the last few years I've been surprised at the number of Gentile Christians I know who have purchased themselves a talmud or a commentary which references items in Talmud.
In South Korea, a largely Christian country, it's hard to find a household which does not have at least 1 book on the Jewish Talmud.
So apparently Christians are starting to find wisdom in there.
The issue I've seen among many torah keepers outside of Messianic Judaism is they don't know Hebrew and aren't learning it really. So there's that hurdle to learn already, then you have this mountain of Jewish literature to contend with. Folks just don't have time and when the leadership poo-poos it and picks a few bad examples out of 40k pages of literature well that's that. It's much easier to dismiss and just not have to deal with it.
If I had a shekhel for every time someone claimed that Jews equate talmud to torah (that's not what you did, just piggybacking) well I'd have a set of stairs in the middle of the room that went no where just because I can...
I've visited many synagogues in my day and most folks have a healthy separation between midrash and bible. The bible gets more respect; if you have a bible and a talmud tractate on a small table the bible has to be set on top of the talmud; it's not allowed to have a talmud tractate laying on top of the Hebrew bible.
You do find in the liberal denominations a haphazard approach I agree and since America is becoming more and more leftist well the same goes with the Jewish population so those who represent "jews" are often "reform" (i.e. don't know much) Jews and I'm sure many of them don't have a clue between what is a midrashic tale and what is real and usually they have a low opinion of scripture anyway in those denominations.
Regarding scary our modern New Testament may have midrash in it as we''ve been discussing in the thread about hunting and here regarding the story of the adulteress.
I don't mean to launch back into that just it seems possible to me that Christians also have elevated stories at times to the level of scripture and what's really scary is it got into the canon! Not even to get into the Eastern Church (oldest church in the world) bible has different books in it than the Protestants than the Roman Catholics so as far as elevating stuff to scripture that isn't or removing what may be there is room for discussion on which bible is the real bible; not to mention the books that used to be in the bible that the reformers took out (I'm glad they weren't allowed to remove James as one prominent reformer wanted to).
I personally find Maccabees and some of the other books in those other Christian bibles quite spiritual.
At least the Jewish midrashes are not considered canon by the Jewish community even if some folks get the stories mixed up. So pardon me fellas if I'm less scared by Jewish lore being separate from Jewish canon than I am by the various forms of the Christian canon of what is and what is not scripture.
Last edited:
You gotta love Nathan. This is one of my favorite stories..."YOU ARE THE MAN!"
it's just amazing and David's humility in the face of the accusation. My 2nd favorite bible story I think (after Elijah slitting the throats of the 400 prophets of Ba'al, that's my fav.)
Its quite possible that the we don't see the penalty being applied in scripture because the stories of those who faced such a fate weren't pertinent to the story of Yeshua and our salvation. Maybe the instances where we see it could be applied yet it isn't are the exception rather than the rule. Showing G-ds mercy for those who have HIS heart. I have an issue with the idea that G-d would make laws just because he was bored and needed to do so. Not saying that was your intended meaning. To me it's more likely man's failure to obey than the idea that G-d really intended for a Laissez-faire Torah approach.
They stoned that Naboth guy for blasphemy. It was a bum rap, but it definitely went down.
Stephan and Paul too. Granted the three of them were for "blasphemy" not adultery.
Great point. And, we know there were more than 40 polygynists in the 4000 years of OT history... the ones recorded were only because their stories in some way connected with the story of the Messiah and events Germaine to His coming....
While looking for instances of stoning in the Bible, I found a passage where David almost got stoned. Conveniently, his polygamy is mentioned in the same passage, and in such a way that it's clearly not the reason for the almost-stoning (you know, just in case anyone needed another example of polygamy not being adultery).
This is before David has become king, when he and his men were seeking asylum among the Philistines. Their offer to provide military aid has been rejected, and upon returning home to Ziklag, they find its been raided and burned by the Amalekites...
Shows the people (at this point) weren't afraid to discuss stoning David when they felt he was doing wrong, but they did not see polygamy as something to stone him over.
This is before David has become king, when he and his men were seeking asylum among the Philistines. Their offer to provide military aid has been rejected, and upon returning home to Ziklag, they find its been raided and burned by the Amalekites...
1 Samuel 30:3-6. When David and his men came to the city, behold, it was burned with fire; and their wives, and their sons, and their daughters, were taken captive. Then David and the people who were with him lifted up their voice and wept, until they had no more power to weep. David's two wives were taken captive, Ahinoam the Jezreelitess, and Abigail the wife of Nabal the Carmelite. David was greatly distressed; for the people spoke of stoning him, because the soul of all the people was grieved, every man for his sons and for his daughters: but David strengthened himself in Yahweh his God.
Of course, after David executes a successful counter-raid and recovers everyone, including his two wives (v. 18), there's no more reason for talk of stoning.
Shows the people (at this point) weren't afraid to discuss stoning David when they felt he was doing wrong, but they did not see polygamy as something to stone him over.
Last edited:
People are so fickle.....
Appreciate this because it highlights the mind-set of the people who lived at that time in the context of polygamy. Thank you.
The ancients had no problem doing stonings. And God clearly viewed that a just punishment for adultery. Its just our modern mindset that makes us squeamish about the idea.
You might think that, and yet...
Florida school shooting: Pennsylvania students get stones
"Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone," Mr Helsel said at the state's House Education Committee on 15 March.
"If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks and they will be stoned.
"We have some people who have some pretty good arms. They can chuck some rocks pretty fast."
"If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks and they will be stoned.
"We have some people who have some pretty good arms. They can chuck some rocks pretty fast."
Amazing
We can't give the children armed security, because that requires icky guns. We'll give them a bucket of rocks for some DIY self-defense. I always figured why be scared of a mean ol' gun as long as there are a couple of good-sized rocks within reach.... 
But........But.......But how do we know that they won’t throw the rocks at each other when they get upset? After all, we cannot trust adults with weapons.We can't give the children armed security, because that requires icky guns. We'll give them a bucket of rocks for some DIY self-defense. I always figured why be scared of a mean ol' gun as long as there are a couple of good-sized rocks within reach....