General Asking about Viewpoint from FAQ, Is Marrying Sisters Prohibited, and more

[Biblical]

Hello everyone, just a quick introduction. I am relatively new around here. I've been looking at the website for a bit before making an account interested in learning more about biblical polygyny and the points surrounding it.

I had a few questions around the official statement around those who believe or support the viewpoint that marrying sisters as wives is biblically allowed, and not vexing or wrong. I tried looking through the linked discussion to see if these has been addressed, but with and without an account, it had been deleted. I don't know who to talk to about this, so I posted here.
That link is right here: http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4059

First question I had regarding this was the why in more detail regarding the arguments or sources used. I did not see any discussions or talks occurring with this, so I would be interested if people who saw/participated in those discussions or had an opinion about this could bring those up.

Second question I had, Leviticus 20:14 prevents a man from marrying a woman and her mother, noting this as wicked. This has been seen from me and others as proof of men not being able to marry a woman along with her blood relatives. For those who believe that a man can marry a wife and her biological sisters as described by the FAQ as "not vexxing", how would Lev 20:14 apply? Does it list the rule that the only blood relative of a wife a man could not marry would be her mother, and that if her cousin or aunt or grandmother were single and willing that he could take them in marriage along with the wife in polygyny? How far could this go? Or is there other arguments?

Final question, probably the most controversial of the three. I've looked through the forum, with there being men who believed that a man could have a threesome or foursome with his wives if he desired so and thought that it was biblical(from the biblical perspective, in modern day you need consent). If the bible is tolerant on the man getting pleasure from his wives sexually as he pleased and tolerant of a man marrying a wife's sister or if the line gets extended, her blood family members who were single and allowed, then what about combining both?

I know that just because something may be biblically allowed, it does not mean you should do it. That is obvious. The chances of this happening to someone is relatively very low. The chances for the wife or the people involved to be accepting or tolerate these viewpoints or intentions is zero unless the guy's a billionaire 6'5 gigachad PUA man who's built different mentally. For the record, I'm still learning about biblical polygyny, and not too much knowledge of these two viewpoints allowed here. Still, I do wish to push the limits here of those views and put personal feelings aside for the quest of knowledge in learning more about this position and the limits. Seeing how these beliefs would be.

Thank you

 

[Keith Martin]

I'm not in the mainstream here on this topic, but your questions require a hierarchy of responses:

• The general category of your questions relates most of all to Leviticus 18, wherein the subject of Sex With Near Kin occurs.
• I'm a proponent of being sex positive about intimacy between a man's wives, including threesomes, foursomes, etc. However, that isn't a blanket approval, because Leviticus 18 reigns over this subject area, so -- if a man has wives who are blood-related to each other, then those women shouldn't even be in bed with you when you're having sex with their blood relatives, much less having sex with each other, because those individuals are near kin. The euphemistic phrase, 'uncovering the nakedness of," always implies penile/vaginal penetration at the very least but is worthy of caution even in the case of two sisters -- or a mother and a daughter -- watching each other being penetrated.
• Mother and her daughter are prohibited from having sex in front of each other in Leviticus 18:17 because they are near kin. Period. Mother and daughter are not prohibited from marrying the same man. To come to that conclusion requires inference combined with preferential personal interepretation. But if threesomes were absolutely prohibited, the particular example wouldn't even need to be mentioned.
• Besides, in my humble opinion, if YHWH intended to outlaw threesomes within marriage, He wouldn't have beat around the bush about it: Leviticus 18 would have included a 'thou shalt not' specifically about wives of one husband being sexually intimate with each other.

I think I've predominantly answered all but one of your questions. I've refrained from answering the first one, because doing so might cause this thread to be deep-sixed. I would just refer you to the administrators and owners of this web site to request input about what causes these subjects to be deemed too controversial, uncomfortable or inappropriate.

These topics were addressed yesterday in this commentary on X by our own @robbkowalski: https://x.com/robbkow/status/1738967706970599596?s=20

 

[Biblical]

Alright, thank you

 

[Biblical]

I'm not in the mainstream here on this topic, but your questions require a hierarchy of responses:

• The general category of your questions relates most of all to Leviticus 18, wherein the subject of Sex With Near Kin occurs.
• I'm a proponent of being sex positive about intimacy between a man's wives, including threesomes, foursomes, etc. However, that isn't a blanket approval, because Leviticus 18 reigns over this subject area, so -- if a man has wives who are blood-related to each other, then those women shouldn't even be in bed with you when you're having sex with their blood relatives, much less having sex with each other, because those individuals are near kin. The euphemistic phrase, 'uncovering the nakedness of," always implies penile/vaginal penetration at the very least but is worthy of caution even in the case of two sisters -- or a mother and a daughter -- watching each other being penetrated.
• Mother and her daughter are prohibited from having sex in front of each other in Leviticus 18:17 because they are near kin. Period. Mother and daughter are not prohibited from marrying the same man. To come to that conclusion requires inference combined with preferential personal interepretation. But if threesomes were absolutely prohibited, the particular example wouldn't even need to be mentioned.
• Besides, in my humble opinion, if YHWH intended to outlaw threesomes within marriage, He wouldn't have beat around the bush about it: Leviticus 18 would have included a 'thou shalt not' specifically about wives of one husband being sexually intimate with each other.

I think I've predominantly answered all but one of your questions. I've refrained from answering the first one, because doing so might cause this thread to be deep-sixed. I would just refer you to the administrators and owners of this web site to request input about what causes these subjects to be deemed too controversial, uncomfortable or inappropriate.

These topics were addressed yesterday in this commentary on X by our own @robbkowalski: https://x.com/robbkow/status/1738967706970599596?s=20

May I ask where in the video he makes the response? It's nearly 2 hours long.

 

[Keith Martin]

May I ask where in the video he makes the response? It's nearly 2 hours long.

I didn't keep track, so I guess you'll have to decide if it's worth your time to find it.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Leviticus 20:14 prevents a man from marrying a woman and her mother, noting this as wicked.

This is the most common understanding. To make this a prohibition on specific private activities is to make the guilty police themselves. Who could give testimony to condemn them to death?
Who your wife is should be commonly known. Who you share your bed with is nobody else's business.
Given that there are millions of women you could marry, it seems foolish to try and find a way around the law that prohibits so very few. How many mothers in law or step daughters does the average man have?

Given the severity of the judgement against this, and how many daughters and step daughters get abused....it may be best to not look at your in laws as marriage potentials.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Hello everyone, just a quick introduction. I am relatively new around here. I've been looking at the website for a bit before making an account interested in learning more about biblical polygyny and the points surrounding it.

I had a few questions around the official statement around those who believe or support the viewpoint that marrying sisters as wives is biblically allowed, and not vexing or wrong. I tried looking through the linked discussion to see if these has been addressed, but with and without an account, it had been deleted. I don't know who to talk to about this, so I posted here.
That link is right here: http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4059

First question I had regarding this was the why in more detail regarding the arguments or sources used. I did not see any discussions or talks occurring with this, so I would be interested if people who saw/participated in those discussions or had an opinion about this could bring those up.

Second question I had, Leviticus 20:14 prevents a man from marrying a woman and her mother, noting this as wicked. This has been seen from me and others as proof of men not being able to marry a woman along with her blood relatives. For those who believe that a man can marry a wife and her biological sisters as described by the FAQ as "not vexxing", how would Lev 20:14 apply? Does it list the rule that the only blood relative of a wife a man could not marry would be her mother, and that if her cousin or aunt or grandmother were single and willing that he could take them in marriage along with the wife in polygyny? How far could this go? Or is there other arguments?

Final question, probably the most controversial of the three. I've looked through the forum, with there being men who believed that a man could have a threesome or foursome with his wives if he desired so and thought that it was biblical(from the biblical perspective, in modern day you need consent). If the bible is tolerant on the man getting pleasure from his wives sexually as he pleased and tolerant of a man marrying a wife's sister or if the line gets extended, her blood family members who were single and allowed, then what about combining both?

I know that just because something may be biblically allowed, it does not mean you should do it. That is obvious. The chances of this happening to someone is relatively very low. The chances for the wife or the people involved to be accepting or tolerate these viewpoints or intentions is zero unless the guy's a billionaire 6'5 gigachad PUA man who's built different mentally. For the record, I'm still learning about biblical polygyny, and not too much knowledge of these two viewpoints allowed here. Still, I do wish to push the limits here of those views and put personal feelings aside for the quest of knowledge in learning more about this position and the limits. Seeing how these beliefs would be.

Thank you

Without drowning you in scripture and logical flights of fancy let me give you some simple answers and we can discuss more if you want.

1. The list of people you’re prohibited from having sex with is is exhaustive and straightforward.
2. @Keith Martin is a brilliant and brave thinker but he’s mistaken on the mother/daughter point in my opinion. It is forbidden to take both a woman and her daughter.
3. There is no such thing as sex between women in the Bible. I dare you to find it. If there is no penis involved then there is no sex occurring. Sisters can not have sex with each other because women can not have sex with each other. A man’s marriage bed is his concern and how he manages it is no one else’s business. It is undefiled, that means it is unable to be defiled. You can’t do it, no matter how hard you try.
4. The verse about uncovering sister’s nakedness next to each other is qualified with the caveats to vex her and to be a rival. The prohibition is on the man’s intent. There is some room for me to be moved on this interpretation so I’m planting this flag but not cementing it in yet.

Good luck in your search and thank you for giving folks a chance to chime in! This is always a fun discussion.

 

[Biblical]

This is the most common understanding. To make this a prohibition on specific private activities is to make the guilty police themselves. Who could give testimony to condemn them to death?
Who your wife is should be commonly known. Who you share your bed with is nobody else's business.
Given that there are millions of women you could marry, it seems foolish to try and find a way around the law that prohibits so very few. How many mothers in law or step daughters does the average man have?

Given the severity of the judgement against this, and how many daughters and step daughters get abused....it may be best to not look at your in laws as marriage potentials.

Just in case there was a misunderstanding, I again note that I did not support that view.

I'm still in questioning and understanding the ideas of Biblical polygyny that are on the website. Coming across the new ideas of a man allowed to be marrying a wife's blood relatives or a man having threesomes or foursomes with his wives alone I found to be odd personally. I could argue that the ocean is a soup, even though that soup is cold, has live animals, ships, poop and piss of animals, and other nasty things. And regardless of if one could point out or make the argument that the ocean can be classed as a soup, that doesn't mean those arguing for it would want to eat it.

I definitely agree with you, and unless you were from the Rothchild or some other rich family that was trying to "keep the wealth within family" or etc, this is nothing more to these then just questions and seeing where people stood on these positions from what I initially understood and saw. I'm new here, so I apologize if I was off-putting. This is a community that holds minority positions that for other Christian forums would be seen as controversial, like man marrying multiple wives and having his -somes, or his wife's sister. A position most people probably wouldn't mention or talk about in the Christian public.

Again, I did not intend to deeply offend people or arouse anger of any sort by starting this thread.

 

[Biblical]

Without drowning you in scripture and logical flights of fancy let me give you some simple answers and we can discuss more if you want.

1. The list of people you’re prohibited from having sex with is is exhaustive and straightforward.
2. @Keith Martin is a brilliant and brave thinker but he’s mistaken on the mother/daughter point in my opinion. It is forbidden to take both a woman and her daughter.
3. There is no such thing as sex between women in the Bible. I dare you to find it. If there is no penis involved then there is no sex occurring. Sisters can not have sex with each other because women can not have sex with each other. A man’s marriage bed is his concern and how he manages it is no one else’s business. It is undefiled, that means it is unable to be defiled. You can’t do it, no matter how hard you try.
4. The verse about uncovering sister’s nakedness next to each other is qualified with the caveats to vex her and to be a rival. The prohibition is on the man’s intent. There is some room for me to be moved on this interpretation so I’m planting this flag but not cementing it in yet.

Good luck in your search and thank you for giving folks a chance to chime in! This is always a fun discussion.

1. I definitely agree with that, the listing I've seen from the bible was mostly regarding from the men's side. Very few rules on the wife side from what the bible had. Some believe this connects with the male's rules of no incest through the bible quote or the egalitarian hold of same rules for men and women, others says the rules are just the rules. I hold no position here, but am interested in learning more.
2. I am clueless on the subject
3. For the first part, that is an interesting perspective to hold. A few questions about that. Would it still be the same if that woman had a strap on that could ejaculate, or surgically had a functioning penis to fuck the other woman? What about women who use bone marrow for impreg?

For part 2 and I think 4, would this position be exclusive to the sisters, or would this be the same to if a man married his wife and her cousin/aunt/grandmother etc with the exception of the mother? Would this also enable the man to use these women in the -somes from your view, or would you agree with Keith with
- However, that isn't a blanket approval, because Leviticus 18 reigns over this subject area, so -- if a man has wives who are blood-related to each other, then those women shouldn't even be in bed with you when you're having sex with their blood relatives, much less having sex with each other, because those individuals are near kin. The euphemistic phrase, 'uncovering the nakedness of," always implies penile/vaginal penetration at the very least but is worthy of caution even in the case of two sisters -- or a mother and a daughter -- watching each other being penetrated.

If you want to continue this in private, we can. I'm fine talking here too if it isn't likely to take down the thread. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Biblical]

1. I definitely agree with that, the listing I've seen from the bible was mostly regarding from the men's side. Very few rules on the wife side from what the bible had. Some believe this connects with the male's rules of no incest through the bible quote or the egalitarian hold of same rules for men and women, others says the rules are just the rules. I hold no position here, but am interested in learning more.
2. I am clueless on the subject
3. For the first part, that is an interesting perspective to hold. A few questions about that. Would it still be the same if that woman had a strap on that could ejaculate, or surgically had a functioning penis to fuck the other woman? What about women who use bone marrow for impreg?

For part 2 and I think 4, would this position be exclusive to the sisters, or would this be the same to if a man married his wife and her cousin/aunt/grandmother etc with the exception of the mother? Would this also enable the man to use these women in the -somes from your view, or would you agree with Keith with
- However, that isn't a blanket approval, because Leviticus 18 reigns over this subject area, so -- if a man has wives who are blood-related to each other, then those women shouldn't even be in bed with you when you're having sex with their blood relatives, much less having sex with each other, because those individuals are near kin. The euphemistic phrase, 'uncovering the nakedness of," always implies penile/vaginal penetration at the very least but is worthy of caution even in the case of two sisters -- or a mother and a daughter -- watching each other being penetrated.

If you want to continue this in private, we can. I'm fine talking here too if it isn't likely to take down the thread. Thank you for sharing!

Just to be clear, just because I don't hold a position in regards to debate doesn't mean I don't hold personal feelings regarding the topic.

Men's side was regarding family, or incest. Same with women's side. Also to ask, if women can't have sex with each other in your position, does that mean they can't commit incest here.

 

[Joleneakamama]

Again, I did not intend to deeply offend people or arouse anger of any sort by starting this thread.

I doubt anyone here was offended by your initial post. These conversations are common enough here. A point you might find interesting relating to what might happen in a marriage bed with more then one wife is that in the parable of the ten virgins five went into the marriages.
Here it is in our concordant version with the Greek alongside.

Would it still be the same if that woman had a strap on

The Bible says clearly women are not to put on that which pertains to a man. It also says there is nothing new under the sun. I think that prohibits strap on pretend things.

 

[The Revolting Man]

Would it still be the same if that woman had a strap on that could ejaculate, or surgically had a functioning penis to fuck the other woman?

Yep. We live in a physical and spiritual world. Sex is the act most fully in both worlds. No part of it exists only in one or the other.

What about women who use bone marrow for impreg?

Sounds like an abomination. Is such a thing possible?

exclusive to the sisters, or would this be the same to if a man married his wife and her cousin/aunt/grandmother etc with the exception of the mother?

I believe grandmother may get caught up in the mother prohibition but I’m not sure. Cousins are not on the prohibited list and I don’t think wife’s aunt is either. It would be easy to check though.

Would this also enable the man to use these women in the -somes from your view,

I always try and be a little coy around this topic for some weird reason. What I will say is this; there are no prohibitions against it and the marriage bed is undefiled. There are those here who take the opposite stance, but I don’t see a way to forbid it from scripture. We can talk about Romans 1:8 if you like. That gets a little thick.

if a man has wives who are blood-related to each other, then those women shouldn't even be in bed with you when you're having sex with their blood relatives, much less having sex with each other, because those individuals are near kin. The

That’s @Keith Martin ’s understanding if I at all understand his understanding. I contend it’s a non issue once Leviticus 18:18 is adhered to. Remember, I don’t believe it’s possibly for two women to have sex. Sex requires a man.

 

[Keith Martin]

Also to ask, if women can't have sex with each other in your position, does that mean they can't commit incest here.

That would be the logical inference, that sisters could never be labeled as incestuous if they can't have sex with each other, here or anywhere . . .

 

[Biblical]

Yep. We live in a physical and spiritual world. Sex is the act most fully in both worlds. No part of it exists only in one or the other.

Sounds like an abomination. Is such a thing possible?

I believe grandmother may get caught up in the mother prohibition but I’m not sure. Cousins are not on the prohibited list and I don’t think wife’s aunt is either. It would be easy to check though.

I always try and be a little coy around this topic for some weird reason. What I will say is this; there are no prohibitions against it and the marriage bed is undefiled. There are those here who take the opposite stance, but I don’t see a way to forbid it from scripture. We can talk about Romans 1:8 if you like. That gets a little thick.

That’s @Keith Martin ’s understanding if I at all understand his understanding. I contend it’s a non issue once Leviticus 18:18 is adhered to. Remember, I don’t believe it’s possibly for two women to have sex. Sex requires a man.

For the bone marrow, yes they do but the results are horrific with much of the time having deformed babies that die within a small period of time from what I remember. Can't give exacts but the sources are out there, and so are the proud feminist tiktokers who preach this. They are always born female I believe since the people involved are XX. With the way technology and gene science has been evolving, it shouldn't be long I recon before some sort artificial sperm made with the woman's genes could be used to impregnate another woman. As for the fake dick, with the way science has been evolving, I would not be surprised in the future if artificial organs could be grown and used in those types of surgeries. Times are changing, and not for the better with stuff like this.

For the grandmother point, I am in agreeance with the confusion there.

 

[Biblical]

I doubt anyone here was offended by your initial post. These conversations are common enough here. A point you might find interesting relating to what might happen in a marriage bed with more then one wife is that in the parable of the ten virgins five went into the marriages.
Here it is in our concordant version with the Greek alongside.View attachment 5905
View attachment 5906


The Bible says clearly women are not to put on that which pertains to a man. It also says there is nothing new under the sun. I think that prohibits strap on pretend things.

I am a bit confused on how the story of the 10 virgins would be connected with the more then one wife marriage bed. Could you elaborate more on this?

 

[Joleneakamama]

I am a bit confused on how the story of the 10 virgins would be connected with the more then one wife marriage bed. Could you elaborate more on this?

There was one bridegroom. Five virgins went in with him to the Greek says "marriages," some versions say marriage chamber, here it was turned into wedding festivities. Young's literal says wedding feasts. If you look at the picture of the Greek text the literal translation of that word was marriages. Five brides, one bridegroom.

 

[frederick]

Five brides, one bridegroom.

And the door was shut after the bridegroom and five virgin brides went in! Fun, fun.

 

[Biblical]

There was one bridegroom. Five virgins went in with him to the Greek says "marriages," some versions say marriage chamber, here it was turned into wedding festivities. Young's literal says wedding feasts. If you look at the picture of the Greek text the literal translation of that word was marriages. Five brides, one bridegroom.

I see, very interesting twisting of bible that's been used by egalitarians. Real version is meanwhile shushed.

 

[Biblical]

And the door was locked after the bridegroom and five virgin brides went in! Fun, fun.

Indeed!

 

[Biblical]

The verse about uncovering sister’s nakedness next to each other is qualified with the caveats to vex her and to be a rival. The prohibition is on the man’s intent. There is some room for me to be moved on this interpretation so I’m planting this flag but not cementing it in yet.

Also, I wanted to ask you what you meant by intent. What classified as her being vexed or not based on your view?