• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Beef with the TULIP. Indictments against bad theology.

frederick said:
This has been debated in other threads. I see no value in rehashing it all again. Have fun.
Click to expand...
The Christians in the 1500’s knew a thing or two. I just checked the Geneva notes for revelation 13:3 - and they state that Nero the Emperor was the beast (anti Christ).

I just checked their notes regarding Ezekiel 37 and 38 - and they state that with the re gathering of Israel and Judah - the two great houses - it would be under Christ and his kingdom. So they agree that Ezekiel 37 and 38 points to a future unfulfilled prophecy for the church.
 
On the other hand, if God's moral judgement differs from ours so that our 'black' may be His 'white', we can mean nothing by calling Him good; for to say 'God is good', while asserting that His goodness is wholly other than ours, is really only to say 'God is we know not what'. And an utterly unknown quality in God cannot give us moral grounds for loving or obeying Him. If He is not (in our sense) 'good' we shall obey, if at all, only through fear - and should be equally ready to obey omnipotent Fiend. The doctrine of Total Depravity - when the consequence is drawn that, since we are totally depraved, our idea of good is worth simply nothing - may thus turn Christianity into a form of devil-worship. -C.S. Lewis. (The Problem of Pain, pp. 28)
 
Last edited:
I believe perseverance of the faith equals eternal security.

I may differ from John Wesley on certain nuances, however good quote to think about.

John Wesley once said: Perseverance of the Saints, Eternal Security?


"Calvinists, who deny that salvation can ever be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin’s lamp can go out; no promising harvest be choked with thorns; no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfulness; no pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God’s book! They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; nobody can ever “receive the grace of God in vain”; “bury his talents”; “neglect such great salvation”; trifle away “a day of grace”; “look back” after putting his hand to the gospel plow. Nobody can “grieve the Spirit” till He is “quenched,” and strives no more, nor “deny the Lord that bought them”; nor “bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found. John 17:12; that if one falls, he never stood. Rom. 11:16-22 and Heb. 6:4-6; if one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never green. John 15:1-6; and that “if any man draws back,” it proves that he never had anything to draw back from. Heb. 10:38,39; that if one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened. Heb 6:4-6; that if you “again get entangled in the pollutions of the world,” it shows that you never escaped. 2 Pet 2:20; that if you “put salvation away” you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of faith, there was no ship of faith there!! In short they say: If you get it, you can’t lose it; and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning!"


— From John Wesley’s sermon “Serious Thoughts Upon the Perseverance of the Saints” (1754).


He also wrote:


"in the worst and bloodiest idolatry that ever defiled the earth, there is nothing so horrid, so monstrous, so impious as this (i.e., Calvinism)"
 
FollowingHim said:
So, you are rejecting a set of theological views, because certain persons who have held those views have thought they should kill heretics who disagreed?
Do you apply this logic consistently to all denominations?
Would it not be more logical to simply reject those certain persons?
Click to expand...
I am not sure if I answered your questions. Answer to your first question: I think desire to kill those deemed to be heretics is not of God, so if someone does that, I would be suspicious, not necessary dismiss information on based on killing alone. It is symptom of what might be happening.

Answer to third question: It would be logical to simply reject those certain persons, but if common denominator has been beliefs that resulted in apathy and murder, I will start seeing a pattern, and then a link.

I am not sure if this is a rule, not sure if this appropriate application of the following Bible reference. Psalm 115:5-8. It seems that worshippers take on characteristics of a god they worship.

They have mouths, but they cannot speak;
eyes, but they cannot see;
6 they have ears, but they cannot hear;
noses, but they cannot smell;
7 they have hands, but they cannot feel;
feet, but they cannot walk;
neither can they speak with their throat.
8 Those who make them are like them;
so is everyone who trusts in them.

And 1 John 4:7-8:
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8. Anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
 
Transformator Reformator said:
I provided incomplete answer. Adding it here: those who were written in the book of life, their deeds will be judged for a reward not for a punishment.
Click to expand...
And those who are written in His book of life are saved by grace, through faith, and are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5). Praise God for His work in delivering sinners from His punishment through His work in Jesus Christ. It's all about what He has done giving resurrection life to those who were dead in trespasses and sins. Hallelujah.
 
frederick said:
And those who are written in His book of life are saved by grace, through faith, and are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5). Praise God for His work in delivering sinners from His punishment through His work in Jesus Christ. It's all about what He has done giving resurrection life to those who were dead in trespasses and sins. Hallelujah.
Click to expand...
Amen. Hallelujah!
 
I am glad I am not living in this type of society proposed by John Calvin. It is not enough to be a heretic to be killed, you have to be ok to kill them as well.
"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death, knowingly and willingly incur their guilt. It is not human authority that speaks, it is God who speaks and prescribes a perpetual rule for His Church.”

John Calvin followed Augustine’s biblical justification for burning heretics. Augustine excused extreme measures through his interpretation of Jesus’ Great Banquet parable in Luke 14:16-24. When the master could not fill up his banquet in the parable, he commanded his servants in Luke 14:23 “to compel people to come so that my house will be filled.” Augustine and Calvin believed burning heretics would “compel” more people to enter their house of God. Interpreting “compulsion” as a license to kill without consideration for Jesus’ other teaching to “love your enemies” is a major hermeneutical error. Any part of Jesus’ teaching should be interpreted in light of the whole. (https://www.reenactingtheway.com/bl...led-and-bad-bible-interpretation-justified-it)

"But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" (Matthew 6:23)
 
Transformator Reformator said:
I believe perseverance of the faith equals eternal security.

I may differ from John Wesley on certain nuances, however good quote to think about.

John Wesley once said: Perseverance of the Saints, Eternal Security?


"Calvinists, who deny that salvation can ever be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin’s lamp can go out; no promising harvest be choked with thorns; no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfulness; no pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God’s book! They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; nobody can ever “receive the grace of God in vain”; “bury his talents”; “neglect such great salvation”; trifle away “a day of grace”; “look back” after putting his hand to the gospel plow. Nobody can “grieve the Spirit” till He is “quenched,” and strives no more, nor “deny the Lord that bought them”; nor “bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found. John 17:12; that if one falls, he never stood. Rom. 11:16-22 and Heb. 6:4-6; if one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never green. John 15:1-6; and that “if any man draws back,” it proves that he never had anything to draw back from. Heb. 10:38,39; that if one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened. Heb 6:4-6; that if you “again get entangled in the pollutions of the world,” it shows that you never escaped. 2 Pet 2:20; that if you “put salvation away” you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of faith, there was no ship of faith there!! In short they say: If you get it, you can’t lose it; and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning!"


— From John Wesley’s sermon “Serious Thoughts Upon the Perseverance of the Saints” (1754).


He also wrote:


"in the worst and bloodiest idolatry that ever defiled the earth, there is nothing so horrid, so monstrous, so impious as this (i.e., Calvinism)"
Click to expand...
That’s about as good of a salvo as I’ve ever read.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top