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Birth Control: Is It Taking Life?

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Re: Caring for the Fatherless

The Bible says, and I agree, that we should care for the Fatherless, in general. But, this caring is NOT unconditional, ever. There are lot's of conditions, and it is not a free pass for the army of Satan to be supported by us. The Mormons have a pretty good understanding us this and I understand none of their families or children are on Welfare. So, let's not get bitter about supporting those who need it AND deserve it.

But, life is about tough choices, that is what this life here is all about. Choices that qualify us for our role in the hereafter.
 
T-C's Rebeka said:
Itsoktobesingle said:
how many children you are to have is God's prerogative
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Absolutely.

Onan was killed for the reason of preventing a child from coming into the world
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But only because he disobeyed a direct order to produce a heir for his brother.... He didn't want his brother to have a child, the child was not going to be considered his but to the brother. So he was greedy and didn't want compentition to his father's wealth for his children. His brother was the Firstborn without an heir HE got to be next in line. Greed was the root of the problem.

The bible says go forth and multipy..... It does not give a command as to how many you multiply because that is an individual's (couple's) walk with God. It might be 0, 1, 2, or 7.

And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name [was] Tamar. And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled [it] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. Gen. 38:6-10
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This is an extreme gross misinterpretation of what transpired in Genesis 38. It is a very common twisting of the Scripture that people with an ax to grind constantly engage in. Onan was killed by God and sent to hell for one reason, and one reason only. For committing one single act of birth control, medically called coitus interuptus, that every kid knows all about.

In other words, He withdrew just before ejaculation and allowed his seed to fall the the ground to take the life of an expected child that would ensue if he finished the act without recourse to BC. He was killed just for this ONLY.

But, people who don't want to face this, who want to justify the unjustifiable, resort to a bunch of Scripture distorting pettyfogging. They say, NO he was not killed for BC, he was killed for disobeying God. Hello, there is no death penalty in the Bible for disobeying God, or we would all be six feet under as I speak.

Nor was he punished for failing to comply with the Leverite rule requiring raising up sons to his dead brother. The punishment for this violation is to pay a small fine, be upbraided in church by the widow and slapped in the face with her sandal. That is all. So, cut the poppycock and get down to the facts.

Our God is a fair God and there are only a few specified crimes that call for Him to impose the death penalty. One of them is taking innocent life, which is exactly what Onan did when he practiced BC in this instance. I am sick of these purposeful distortions of the clear Word of God in the Bible. I have researched this story for hundreds of hours, and have turned over every stone that can be turned over, and consulted ALL the experts. Some of them lie to cover their own sins, but others tell the truth just as I am telling it. I have gone to the original Hebrew and to the Greek, and to the scholars, and other than the ones who purposefully lie for their own convenience everything agrees with my interpretation.

I have committed this sin, but I am different than most who commit this sin, I HAVE REPENTED IT. Something I would suggest to everyone. It takes just less than 5 seconds, costs nothing, and you are free and clear. And you can do it again, but you must stay in a contrite spirit regarding this. If we have a contrite spirit like David, God will forgive our sins, but our lies to Him blaspheme the holy spirit and cannot be forgiven. It is the cover-up that does people in, both in DC and in God's holy realm.
 
Thnak you Founder for backing me up on this. I was just trying to get time to do more research to have a more comprehensive explanation as to why I made the original comment. In other words that there is even more biblical and historical christian truth to back up what I said originally and what you repeated. I must say in defense of people on this forum:It is a hard truth for someone raised in this country in these modern times. Sometimes it takes years for people to come to know deeper truths of God just because our world that we are born in has gotten soooo far from the Bible and some people never will get to many truths in their lifetimes. It is similar with plural marriage. Also this particular topic "having as many children as you want/can afford/are convenient/are 'right' for your family" is so engrained in our society that it is very easy to be a target of ridicule and critisism as a hypocrite such as "why don't u adopt all the unwanted kids" etc. which is unrelated to the original biblical argument.

This is the verse that maybe sums up your point about why we cannot all be equal in this world:
Romans 9:21:Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
SweetLissa once had a really good post about this but it was related to women in a plural marriage, how no one was really meant to be equal. I hope I have helped to shine some light on something here.
 
Founder said:
Onan was killed by God and sent to hell for one reason, and one reason only. For committing one single act of birth control, medically called coitus interuptus, that every kid knows all about.

In other words, He withdrew just before ejaculation and allowed his seed to fall the the ground to take the life of an expected child that would ensue if he finished the act without recourse to BC. He was killed just for this ONLY.
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Medically....It doesn't work.

Sin is conceived in the heart and the birthed in the act, but it is still sin.

Onan was ordered by his father.
Genesis 38:8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
Onan was greedy...
Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his...... lest that he should give seed to his brother.

Ananias & Sapphira, both greedy.....

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried [him] out, and buried [him]. Acts 5:1-6


Onan, Ananias, & Sapphira were all greedy and are all dead because of it.
 
You totally have. You are a saint. But to whom much is given much is expected. I just want to reach across this sea of virtual reality and bless you, and anoint you. God has given you the gift of discernment, and leadership in your own special way. My heart goes out to every poster here and to those who have made this forum possible. To make this place for me and others. :)
 
Re: Caring for the Fatherless

Founder said:
T The Mormons have a pretty good understanding us this and I understand none of their families or children are on Welfare. .
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How many do you know?????


And understanding??.... LDS doesn't believe that the holy bible is accurate (in other words, the God who made the world cannot manage to keep His message pure) and thus needed additional books to clarify- that contradicted the previous scriptures. If the bible is wrong, then all that we believe can easily be taken as a lie.
IMO

I believe it spirituously dangerous to add to scriptures. If a passage is hard to understand I go back to the original language. It is not that hard to study the languages enough to do so..... I started in the fifth grade and continued in high school; Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek. Lexicons are not that difficult to use. Regular word studies are very fruitful.

What I have not seen here is the scriptural passages that state that life is before the uniting of man's and woman's seeds.
After that Yes it is life. I know of the scriptures that make it undeniable to say describe it as anything but life.

I know of scriptures that state that walking in disobedience of God's will is sin. Thus if you know God's will is for you as a couple is to have a child and you purposely do whatever method to prevent that child due to any reason regardless of the cost to self, then that couple is guilty of walking outside of God's will and will be held accountable for that blatant disobediance. - not to mention any additional sins that might have been committed in the method of prevention, such as abortion.

What I am understanding from these posts are that any attempt from an individual or couple to prevent pregnancy in any way, including abstinence, is a sin as to murder. It is this view point I can not recall any scriptures that would support this, and it is not from a lack of reading, meditation, or study. (perhaps sin yes.)

I am all for exhortation, so if this is the view you are trying to disseminate then post the scriptures that have lead you to this truth so that those of us who might be sinning due to ignorance can be corrected, repent, and turn away from sin.
But I can not act on something that I have not found backed up in the scriptures, because I have not been called as a prophetess. (And all true righteous prophesies are proved as it is in His scriptures.)

Truely, I would like to attempt to be noble and be as the Bereans were with Paul in the book of Acts.
 
The moderators have locked this thread after some discussion, we are uneasy about some recent comments made on it, and feel that the issue has been covered.

Thanks to Itsoktobesingle for posting links to some good information (I'm particularly fond of Nathan Wilson and his knack for generating national publicity - see his "Shroud of Turin" theory - having sort of "watched him grow up" while reading his father Doug Wilson's books and articles. That's a plug for Credenda Agenda, a great thinking Christian's mag, even for those of us not from a Reformed tradition: http://www.credenda.org/)

It's this we find over-the-line:
It is a very common twisting of the Scripture that people with an ax to grind constantly engage in.
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We assure you that many true Bereans, lovers of God and the Word, including many on this site, do indeed find Onan's sin as the refusal to create his brother's heir, AFTER marrying his widow - the lesser "fine" applying to those who don't agree to marry their brother's widow. It's a legitimate difference between caring Christians - just one of many. If you believe otherwise, that's between you and God, we still call you 'brother'.

And since the entire subject is one that must come under Grace in one's current walk with God, we at Biblical Families are absolutely in agreement with an earlier poster in this thread who said the question must ultimately be answered by each family individually, after hearing from God for themselves. Or as Nathan Wilson put it so well in the linked article: "What matters is that you can stand before God with a clear conscience on this issue."

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