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Broken Promises

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Wesley

Wesley

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What can a man do about broken promises?

I have more exes than I care to count. In each case the situation played out exactly the same.

  • First, the women promised that they would accept my polygyny.
  • Then the woman gets verbally (and in two cases physically) abusive, especially when the subject of polygyny comes up.
  • I try to be accommodating to their feelings, doing things such as in one case agreeing to take a year off from searching for a second wife to let her adjust to the idea.
  • Then another woman shows up that I'm actually interested and the whole thing blows up.

My response up to this point when a woman has threatened to leave over my practice of polygyny (after having promised to accept it) has always been "Would you like me to help you pack your bags?

I've gotten mixed results from "Sure, you put the clothes in that closet into this suitcase while I get my things out of the bathroom" to "You stay the hell away from me. You're becoming more irrational by the moment.

Is there a better response?


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On a side note: A woman hits me, insults me and threatens to leave over an issue she promised to accept and I offer to help her pack her bags... but I'm the one being irrational???
 
Since things keep playing out the same with different partners, the best response is probably self-examination. Maybe you'll find that you unconsciously steered each relationship in a way that made the same outcome inevitable.

Counting on explicit verbal understandings is a problematic strategy; it leaves little room for a wife to save face.
 
I grew up in a continuously broken home and one thing I know is that "rational" is in the eye of the beholder. There is a chain of unbroken rational thought that leads all the way to holding your partner in a head-lock while you run a water hose over her head. Rational, but not right. Or righteous, as it were.

I would venture a guess that women tend to speak out of emotion. A female promise to accept polygyny (especially in this culture) is likely to be a worst case scenario theoretical that only could apply under the strangest of circumstances. Like a man saying he would crawl over broken glass for his beloved. We mean it well enough, unless our sweetest little sugar dumpling starts non-nonchalantly breaking beer bottles in the kitchen. Then we realize that we may have misspoken. Women are not Vulcans. At no point will it be safe to rely upon their sense of logic to overcome their emotionality.

Also- If we are viewing this marriage thing through the Christ-lens: I would say that it matters less what your actual response is and be aware that this stewardship requires more than merely accommodating their feelings. He isn't merely accommodating us, He is sympathetic.(Heb 4:15) If you truly are trying to be accommodating, but have no actual sympathy, it will be known.

The idea of my wife walking out on me makes me nauseous. The idea of another man ever touching her fills me with rage. Doesn't it do the same for you?

If I can keep guessing: If you are looking for another woman, your first woman feels insecure. If you actually are not sympathetic (just reading into it, don't shoot me) she feels disconnected from you. If she is threatening to leave, and you respond by telling her that you will actually assist her: all I really see this doing is appearing to validate what she already feels. Her position really is in jeopardy, she really is replaceable, you really don't love her, you really don't care.

Just off the top of my head?

"Don't you dare. You are mine and I keep what's mine. We can and will work through all of our problems, every single one of them, because I love you and won't ever let you go. Stay with me, or spend a few nights at your mother's, but know this: you are coming back"

(Full disclosure... I've told my wife that if she ever cheated on me I would probably forgive her, but her boyfriend might not survive the process. I don't know if I would advise throwing that in there, but just letting you know where I'm coming from)

Anyways, that would be my response, but you can't deliver it cold. You can't be the robot that suddenly develops a heart in the fourth quarter. She has to already know that she means more to you than she could understand.

I do find your usual response to be quite rational, even civil. I have not known any women to interpret that as love, tho.
 
@mystic,
You may be closer to home than you realize. Over the past year I've been working with the VA on overcoming my PTSD. It stems from a lot of things, not just my military service. One of those is child abuse by my mother. The therapists pointed out to me that men who have been abused by their mothers frequently choose abusive women as partners because that is what they are familiar with and what they know.

Thanks for the response.

@Slumberfreeze,
Your guesses are a bit off the mark, at least according to my current wife and my therapists. Thanks for the response though.
 
Hi Wesley.

Thanks for sharing your situation.

Yes there is a better reply.

Here are a few suggested alternatives:

"I love you"

"please don't leave me"

"I need you"

"please share why you are saying that"

And now some general observations:

. More exes than I care to count - I agree with mystic, self-examination is the next step. For a start, these are lovely human beings, not exes. They have names, back stories, and lives. Were you a positive experience in their life, did you add value? did you build trust? did you help to maximize their potential? To call someone an ex is to reduce them into a past statistic in your life, to eliminate their name and define who they are by their former relationship with you.

Were you married to these women?

If no, why not?

Were you committed to these women?

How committed?

Committed until death do us part?

What are you going to do different in the future to prevent this situation from EVER recurring?

What is your selection process for finding a wife? How did you fail to detect these abusive personality profiles? Or are they a response to your own behaviour?

"Another woman shows up" - where are these women coming from? outer space? I suggest you stabilise your home situation first before looking for a new woman. I really don't believe second wives just "show up".

"your practice of polygyny" - first things first please. I don't see any real biblical marriage here, just a series of informal relationships. Biblical marriage involves lifetime commitment, family and hopefully children as a blessing. Do you have any children? If you have a ton of "exes", where are all the children? Or are you just using these women for your own gratification.

I know this is a harsh post.

You can reject it if you want.

In case you think I am against polygamy, I am not.

And I have personally experienced the gap between theoretical agreement and practical denial.

And yes I believe it is the man's right to take additional wives.

But its no good if you burn the original wife in the process.

Cheers,

ylop
 
I had to agree with ylop...a woman shows up....they come from somewhere.

Im wondering how you are meeting these women? Online poly dating sites or another online service? The local grocery store? Church?

You said you bring up the subject of practicing poly in the beginning of the relationship and they are fine with it but when the other woman is there they turn. Are you having a continuous conversation flow about the topic of plural marriage? Or is it like a checklist and making sure they are okay with it and not brought up again until a woman shows up? Because their response seems like they are shocked or hurt very badly. The reason why i ask this is because i have come across two seperate families in the past oh..lets say...few months... where the husband was looking for a second wife online and the first one wasn't aware. I almost fell out of my seat when they told me. It didnt affect me in the least except i deleted our conversation. I felt so terrible for those wives that were not part of an active conversation about becoming a plural family. The wife and wives definitely need to be a part of the conversation or in my opinion its doomed before it starts.

Just .02 from a single gal.
 
@ ylop and starlit,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. If I ever run into a situation where any of that is relevant I will keep it in mind.
 
I would appreciate it if everyone would actually read the originating post (OP) before responding. Here is a quote from the OP that some seem to have overlooked.

Wesley said:
Then the woman gets verbally (and in two cases physically) abusive, especially when the subject of polygyny comes up.
Click to expand...

In other words all of the women in question became verbally abusive when I tried to talk to them about polygyny and two of them actually hit me and threw things at me over the subject.
 
ylop said:
Why do you think they respond in that way?
Click to expand...

Let me turn that question around on you. If a man were hitting, throwing things at and verbally abusing a woman, would you ask "Why do you think [he] responds that way?"

Or would you simply recognize that there is no excuse for such behavior (regardless of which gender is doing it) and try to sympathize with the victim because the abuser was definitely out of line?
 
Wesley, my gut feeling is that the thoughts of everyone who has posted here are a lot more relevant to your situation than you care to admit.

Good on you asking for advice. Seriously, that is awesome. Us men tend to try to conquer things on our own too often rather than seeking advice.

But now you're here, you've got a lot of advice. Don't dismiss it. This won't be all the fault of the women in your life, nor will you simply be choosing abusive women (although that may well be part of the problem, I highly doubt it's the whole thing). I am glad you accept the need for self-examination. I suspect the posts you have dismissed may be quite helpful for you in that self-examination if you are willing to ponder them more deeply.
 
Wesley said:
Let me turn that question around on you. If a man were hitting, throwing things at and verbally abusing a woman, would you ask "Why do you think [he] responds that way?"
Or would you simply recognize that there is no excuse for such behavior (regardless of which gender is doing it) and try to sympathize with the victim because the abuser was definitely out of line?
Click to expand...

I am going to create a double-standard here and say that I do not accept the behaviour as being the same pattern or treatment from either gender.

Men are in general more physically strong than women.

Of course its not an excuse. Violence is not acceptable behaviour.

But if multiple women start hitting, throwing things or issuing verbal abuse to you in response to certain behaviour, you really need to look at your behaviour that triggers it.

And not just the specific words or actions at that time, but the previous behaviour, the expectations in the relationship that you have created.
 
Not to dogpile, but I have to second the double standard. My wife turning her fists on me is a poor choice, a discipline problem, a sign that that something is drastically wrong in my house. It would even amuse me if I didn't know it meant my wife was suffering. If I were to unleash my fists on her, um.. it would mean all those things, and also my wife would never feel safe again. The shepherd has turned on his flock and is an utter failure.

I once witnessed my first step mother chasing my father wih a knife. What can I say? I took his side because I was still a kid, and what I saw was what I knew. When I later found that my stepmom was routinely slapped around by him, and had discovered that he had taken a girlfriend (let's have some sympathy for monogamists.Any Poly behavior is a betrayal of their vows) and she was basically a prisoner in her own house by a man who was a danger to her... eh... I say I could at least understand her craziness.

I'm not accusing you of abuse or anything of the sort. But if you are dealing with PTSD and have reason to believe your abused background is leading you to choose abusive women as partners, and you have already alienated five wives/girlfriends... then I think I would declare you unfit for command. Why not keep your one wife who understands you? At some point you will be fully healed from your past, and your wife might even be enthusiastic about poly, and then you could walk right into it without a hitch. But what's the point of dragging another potentially abusive woman chosen by your masochistic subconscious into your home over the protests of your current wife?

I think the rational thing is to cool it and make sure you've got your head right.
 
Broken promises go both ways. When a husband constantly breaks his promises to his current wives, sometimes they feel completely betrayed when another wife comes in and is all smiles. It is hard to see a husband keeping his promises to the new wife while ignoring the broken promises to the existing wives.

SweetLissa
 
Sweetlissa that was a very thoughtful reply. I had never thought of it that way before.

I dont think you deserve any of this abuse either Wesley, no one hear does i figure.

But im still curious about my question i had asked you earlier....do you keep an active line of communication with your wife or mate about plural marriage? Or is it something that is only brought up once and then you assume she is okay with whomever you bring into the home? Because that was my original thought about why maybe the behavior was triggered.

Just some thoughts i had, good luck in your search.
 
starlit said:
But im still curious about my question i had asked you earlier....do you keep an active line of communication with your wife or mate about plural marriage? Or is it something that is only brought up once and then you assume she is okay with whomever you bring into the home? Because that was my original thought about why maybe the behavior was triggered.
Click to expand...

I already answered that question. The answer to that question is in the OP in the second and third bullet points.
 
sweetlissa said:
Broken promises go both ways. When a husband constantly breaks his promises to his current wives, sometimes they feel completely betrayed when another wife comes in and is all smiles. It is hard to see a husband keeping his promises to the new wife while ignoring the broken promises to the existing wives.
Click to expand...

Could you perhaps elaborate on what promises you believe that I broke?
 
Wesley I understand your frustration. I know what its like to have people accuse you of things you never even dreamed of doing.

But I've also come to realize that others are not able to see things thru your eyes or understanding. So they are responding according to the picture you have shared. A painter can paint a picture that in his mind portrays a terrifying storm. Someone else can look at it and see a raw beauty and the splendor of Heaven.

And sometimes if we look from a different perspective we see a different picture. So Wesley. If their perspective is wrong maybe it will apply to someone else who reads it. Trust in the Holy Spirit to lead you to the advice that you need but first make sure you are open to hear His voice.

Peace and Blessings
 
yoderfamily said:
Wesley I understand your frustration. I know what its like to have people accuse you of things you never even dreamed of doing.

But I've also come to realize that others are not able to see things thru your eyes or understanding. So they are responding according to the picture you have shared. A painter can paint a picture that in his mind portrays a terrifying storm. Someone else can look at it and see a raw beauty and the splendor of Heaven.

And sometimes if we look from a different perspective we see a different picture. So Wesley. If their perspective is wrong maybe it will apply to someone else who reads it. Trust in the Holy Spirit to lead you to the advice that you need but first make sure you are open to hear His voice.

Peace and Blessings
Click to expand...

Kind words have been in extremely short supply in this thread. I appreciate you for adding these.

I understand what you're talking about with differences in perspective. I don't see it as applying in this case but I understand where you're coming from. In fact, the first time anyone ever jumped to the conclusions in question that's exactly what I thought too. I assumed that it was just a difference in perspective or that I wasn't clear in my statements.

That was umpteen bajillion times ago.

So far in this thread...
  • I have been accused of breaking promises with no evidence to support the accusation
  • I have been asked if I did any kind of continuing communication in spite of the fact that my OP clearly states that I attempted continuing communication and their responses became increasingly hostile.
  • I have been directly accused of being "unfit for command" again without any evidence.
  • I have been accused of "dragging another potentially abusive woman chosen by your masochistic subconscious into your home over the protests of your current wife? once again without any evidence.

In other words I asked a simple question about communication and people declared open season on me for no apparent reason. As I said, this is not the first time I have seen this behavior.

Perhaps it is time to stop vilifying people simply for having an Y chromosome.

I have a licensed therapist to assist me with dealing with my PTSD. I neither need, nor want, any advice on that issue from a bunch of unlicensed practitioners who are too busy jumping to conclusions to be bothered with actually reading what I wrote, asking questions for clarification or dealing with the real situation.
 
Slumberfreeze said:
...over the protests of your current wife?

I think the rational thing is to cool it and make sure you've got your head right.
Click to expand...

Okay, looking back at my OP I see where this one came from. On this point I was legitimately unclear.

There are no objections from my current wife. That's not the issue. In fact the reason for my renewed interest in a second wife is exactly because my current wife desires it so greatly. She wants a sister. She has always wanted one or more sisters right from the start but that desire has intensified now that we know that she is medically incapable of having children of her own. She wants a family as much as, if not more than, I do.

As for the rest, thank you for the unlicensed medical advice but I'm going to listen to licensed practitioners rather than unlicensed advice on that topic.
 
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