BOOM! mic drop....
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Churchianity Lacks PRACTICAL Answers For Single Women!
- Thread starter Frank S
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BOOM! mic drop....
I believe that you are reading way too much into that.
He merely invited her to eat with his workers and directed them to leave some extra grain for her to glean. A rich man providing for a old woman and a foreign widow.
He had no intentions towards her until she offered herself to him. Then he woke up and stepped up to the plate.
I believe that her actions were consistent with offering herself as a concubine and he vetoed that idea in favor of the full-meal-deal.
You're looking to slave away for 14 years in exchange for a bride?
Because you said so?
Can you add that to the golden quotes thread?
Amen and Amen! Preach it brother. BUT, it was my first wife that took me for a walk and asked me to marry her. My second had to question me enough about polygamy, and get us both to understand the biblical truth, to get to that same point. Women who want husbands need to be as proactive as men who want wives if they hope to get good outcomes.
And considering the OP, keep in mind that much of churchianity has failed so don't do it that way.
This deserves a Slow clap
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And, an important side note for the ladies, if you spot a married man that is worthy, imho, you would be wise to begin building a friendship early with the existing wife.... not a requirement, but in most cases will likely smooth the process a great deal...
Here’s an idea, find someone that catches your eye, say hi, over an unspecified amount of time and talking to her, see if she’d like to grab a burger and a movie, if all goes well, see if she’d like to see another movie with you.
But, don’t marry her in your mind on the first date. If she’s willing to marry you after the first date, RUN!!!
Or, over complicate this whole dating thing and you’ll watch girls run from you for a long time.
No not really applicable to this day and age. Several others above said "dating" seems to be cultural. What you CAN take away from Issac and Rebekah is that Rebekah was asked first and then her father AND brother were asked. I'm going to presume that a wealthy prospect was pretty favorable as likely bride prices/dowery's to the brides family were in store. See the problem is you have to read what ISN'T there and think about what the culture and practices were OF THE TIME to understand what was going on and how executed. And even then the servant could've just ran off with her..
So in this day and age, it's veritably a free for all. But there are some people who approach it more 'traditionally' and to know who that is or isn't is can be hard to figure out.
If you ask her and she says "you need to ask my father" then yes. But honestly I feel like you're over thinking this too much.
Others have noted quite appropriately that courting rituals change as one ages and change in respect to whether they are conducted between those who are inexperienced with marriage or between those who are experienced with marriage (such as widows, widowers or those who have been divorced).
Note, @James A, that the following is not intended as advice to you: @FollowingHim (and @FollowingHim2), I loved this anecdote. Kristin and I made some MAJOR mistakes in regard to how we started out marriage (primarily in regard to eloping when her parents didn't even know we were dating), but your story very much resonates with ours. I regularly still thank our Father for the fact that I was stone cold drunk the night Kristin first indicated her interest in me, because I know that otherwise I wouldn't have had the guts to voice what came out of my mouth when she gave me her first embrace: "I believe I would entirely rearrange my life to be with you." And suddenly it was on, after months of hardly knowing each other. 2 weeks later she asked me to marry her, and 2 weeks later we got married. 32 years ago.
Which doesn't negate the fact that I should have been communicating with Kristin's father, but @FollowingHim's point that you should consider the possibility that you're overthinking all this is probably right on the mark. What draws two people together and fosters any potential bonding (which requires that both people are feeling drawn to each other -- attraction on one person's part is never enough) is probably one of life's biggest mysteries. You simply can't be taught how to form that attraction, but if you are drawn to a young woman and don't know whether she'll be drawn to you (that is, when it's not entirely obvious), it certainly can't hurt to have a conversation with that young woman's father. Who would better know what she wants and what is best for her?
Note, @James A, that the following is not intended as advice to you: @FollowingHim (and @FollowingHim2), I loved this anecdote. Kristin and I made some MAJOR mistakes in regard to how we started out marriage (primarily in regard to eloping when her parents didn't even know we were dating), but your story very much resonates with ours. I regularly still thank our Father for the fact that I was stone cold drunk the night Kristin first indicated her interest in me, because I know that otherwise I wouldn't have had the guts to voice what came out of my mouth when she gave me her first embrace: "I believe I would entirely rearrange my life to be with you." And suddenly it was on, after months of hardly knowing each other. 2 weeks later she asked me to marry her, and 2 weeks later we got married. 32 years ago.
Which doesn't negate the fact that I should have been communicating with Kristin's father, but @FollowingHim's point that you should consider the possibility that you're overthinking all this is probably right on the mark. What draws two people together and fosters any potential bonding (which requires that both people are feeling drawn to each other -- attraction on one person's part is never enough) is probably one of life's biggest mysteries. You simply can't be taught how to form that attraction, but if you are drawn to a young woman and don't know whether she'll be drawn to you (that is, when it's not entirely obvious), it certainly can't hurt to have a conversation with that young woman's father. Who would better know what she wants and what is best for her?
This deserves a Slow clap
Thank you, @FollowingHim. I know that, in this thread, it borders on boring redundancy to heap praise on you about this, but I put this in the category of the thread @rejoicinghandmaid has recently started (https://biblicalfamilies.org/forum/...etter-off-seeking-polygamy.14922/#post-189939): too much emphasis is placed on men pursuing additional wives; it fails to highlight the value good men can be to women, so both your advice and @rejoicinghandmaid's assertions are not only valuable information for single women seeking to be sister wives but appropriately bolstering for those of us who go through periods of experiencing overwhelm in our desire to bring more women into our families.
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James A
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I did not mention the retreat. I also find it very uncomfortable that it is even brought up in the post. This was not directed towards any family. Nor did I approach anyone at the retreat with attentions of courting. This is my last post from the Biblical families forum goodbye And I proably wont be attending a retreat again
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Here’s the odd thing, most girls pick guys that have some type of characteristic of their father. If she’s interested in you, that characteristic makes her feel safe. Depending on which characteristic it is, you will either hit it off with her father or butt heads. But, if the father sees a man of character who will take care of his little girl (they will always be our little girl) you will win the father over. The father wants a Godly man for his daughter. Both Godly and Manly. Manly, not a jerk. Big difference.
A plain simple answer to your question. My wife’s father passed away years before we got married. I did not have the option to ask him. Oddly, she has told me many times I would have liked him cause we had many things in common. I have some characteristics of her father.
Yes, you can have dinner with her before meeting the father, if she wants to have dinner with you. But if it starts getting serious, then you’ll want his approval. If she likes you, has fun and enjoys your company and it’s getting serious, she’ll make sure you meet the father. And if she comes from a family where the father wants to meet you first, well, I already know you’re ok with that.
For anyone else who may have also gotten the idea that @James A approached someone from my family at this retreat, that was not the case to my knowledge.
Go back and re read my posts, James. I did not say that you did, I was only replying to what my response would have been for anyone who asked my daughter to go on a hike with them. FWIW, your initial mention of that, followed by your explanations have not improved my personal opinion of your initiation process for several reasons which I will spare you here out of love and respect for your parents.
Just a heads up for anyone else who may be reading this thread now or in the future. It is considered by most in this community highly inappropriate for a man to make a beeline for a woman alone (i.e. no one else is around, not one who is a wallflower in the packed room) to initiate a conversation with them at the retreats. This goes for both singles and married women, but especially for our older daughters who are still in the home and simply there to enjoy the company of others their own age.
IF there is a woman alone, there’s probably a good reason for it. For example thinking through difficult subjects and topics or just to get some quiet time with God, or enjoying the beautiful scenery that so many of our camps are blessed with. If you are an unrelated guy . . . . Leave em alone unless they are in need of medical attention or something like that! If you feel the urge to approach them about an interest in discovery or courting, wait until they are back with others or speak with their fathers or brothers. IMO the latter is the best way to avoid a messy, embarrassing situation.
There are myriad opportunities for public conversations/introductions with virtually everyone at a retreat. That’s primarily why the retreats are facilitated, because there is no substitute for face to face fellowship. But, the retreats are not intended to be a hookup site or dating/courting event. Does that happen? Absolutely! Is it frowned upon? Not really! What is discouraged is causing our daughters and women to feel uncomfortable whether in a crowded room or when they’re alone. Our goal is to make the retreats a place where we can all just relax and feel safe and loved and allow our kids to run and play and interact with other kids.
As a father, there is nothing more reassuring than to see other adults being concerned for the safety and well being of my children. There was an instance at the first retreat that we brought our children too. After the introductions, a middle aged man (who was a first timer to the retreats) made a beeline for my oldest daughter. No doubt just for introductions etc. Before I could cross the room, and before he could begin to introduce himself, there were two other women and another friend of mine that were conveniently part of the circle. For the record, he behaved in an entirely appropriate manner otherwise.
We have enough stigma associated with the idea of plural families. The retreats are not, and should never be a place where families cannot feel safe and secure in bringing their families with them.
And for those parents wondering about the advisability of bringing their children or concerned about the caliber of children that attend, my own children would much rather hang out with the Bib Family kids than the kids in their church youth group when we were part of Corp. Christianity.
The story of Abraham, Isaac and Rebecca actually does give us a useful pattern. The use of a third party.
Granted, sending your servant out isn’t an option and accepting a marriage proposal from an as yet unseen person probably won’t fly, but having a mutual friend check for possible interest would take a lot of the tension out of the situation.
And it works both ways, some very good families are not actively courting and a single female could easily see them as uninterested. Check with a mutual friend, it worked back in the third grade.
Granted, sending your servant out isn’t an option and accepting a marriage proposal from an as yet unseen person probably won’t fly, but having a mutual friend check for possible interest would take a lot of the tension out of the situation.
And it works both ways, some very good families are not actively courting and a single female could easily see them as uninterested. Check with a mutual friend, it worked back in the third grade.
I hope you realize that this is a cultural idiosyncrasy unique to your group that is not common sense nor in common with the rest of our culture where men and women are more or less treated equally like adults and in a usual group setting someone off by themselves would likely be assumed to be a little more socially shy who would appreciate someone to come talk to them. Your example behaved entirely appropriate otherwise because it's normal human behavior to introduce yourself to people you'd like to meet without reservation. Even a person who might hold themselves back from introducing to an alone teen would feel that a group including adult women was an appropriate situation to talk to them (because they're adults, possibly including her mother).
There is another practical reason for this. One of the problems with delayed marriage is most women have over-inflated sense of how good a man they can secure for marriage. They're so used to all the hot guys hitting them up for easy sex that they do not have an appreciation for how attractive they actually are or how good a candidate for marriage they are. Nothing like a few rejections to put their actual status into stark perspective.