Cohabitation?

[FollowingHim]

In the end the point is likely mute. If one believes the increase in temperature is natural then there is likely not mich that can be done. If it is man made then it is likely to late to do much about it. Perhaps prevent things from becoming worse. In the end preparations need to be made.

On that at least we are in agreement. Regardless of whether you believe humans are causing the climate to change or not, what a sensible person should do is the same - we should be trying to live sustainably and resiliently. The climate always changes, and we need to be ready for it.

The stupidest thing to do would be to try and reduce CO2 emissions if that means impoverishing ourselves and making us less able to survive. A good example of that is what is going on all over the West: encouraging everyone to have heatpumps instead of fireplaces (increasing reliance on electricity), while pushing for solar / wind electricity generation, which are unreliable (reducing the security of supply). Then you get more power cuts in winter (because the supply is less reliable), and more people get diseases brought on by the cold or even freeze to death, as they don't have fireplaces.

Of course, it may not be stupidity, it may be deliberate. Some people really do want to reduce the global population, even if that means leaving elderly people to freeze in the winter.

 

[FollowingHim]

If parents see a child not taking care of a toy they might not intervene but instead let the toy be destroyed, it could be that God is taking the stance let them destroy it.

One also has to ask if God has abandoned his little experiment. Humans often view Humanity as Gods masterpiece, which I have always found arrogant. Genocide, murder, rapes, poverty, starvation; Would a creator not be embarrassed by such foul creatures?

@Maia, are you a Christian? The questions you raise are immediately answered in the Gospel - people are fundamentally evil, but God loves us anyway and wishes to fix us up and draw us to himself.

Our little planet is not the center of the universe as religious scholars once thought. It is irrelevant in the vastness of space. A quasar emits more energy in a few seconds, then our sun does in billions of years, obliterating everything its burst touches. If the earth gets destroyed that sucks for us, but the universe will not care. Will God care? Debatable.

Why would the location of something make it more or less important? Is the grass plant in the exact middle of your lawn more important than all the other plants? Or do you care more about the interesting rose bush in the garden at the edge of the lawn? In the same way, it's irrelevant if the earth is at the centre of the universe or not.

Why does the amount of energy something emits change how important it is? What is more important to you, a giant heap of rubbish branches on fire or the little flame on your gas hob heating up your soup? Would you care more if the fire on the rubbish went out, or if the gas hob went out?

What actually makes something important?

 

[OttoM]

Our little planet is not the center of the universe as religious scholars once thought. It is irrelevant in the vastness of space. A quasar emits more energy in a few seconds, then our sun does in billions of years, obliterating everything its burst touches. If the earth gets destroyed that sucks for us, but the universe will not care. Will God care? Debatable.

I wouldn’t put much faith in what comes out from nasa. They have a serpent’s tongue on their logo, and nasa means to greatly deceive in Hebrew. “By their fruit you shall know them.”

—————————————————————
Psalm 37:7-11 NLT
Don’t worry about evil people who prosper or fret about their wicked schemes. 8 Stop being angry! Turn from your rage! Do not lose your temper— it only leads to harm. 9 For the wicked will be destroyed, but those who trust in the Lord will possess the land. 10 Soon the wicked will disappear. Though you look for them, they will be gone. 11 The lowly will possess the land and will live in peace and prosperity.

Men were created in His image. He does indeed love us and there’s great promises for those that choose to walk in his ways, and hold fast to the testimony of Yahshua (Jesus).

 

[paterfamilias]

https://www.meteo.psu.edu/holocene/public_html/shared/articles/mbh98.pdf

This one?

Based on the following report:

Climate myths: The 'hockey stick' graph has been proven wrong

Despite repeated claims that the famous temperature reconstruction is at best seriously flawed and at worst a fraud, all the evidence supports it

www.newscientist.com

They challenged some of the data, but later updated the article to state the even with this in mind, the conclusion does not change.

It was originally posted in Nature magazine, they are very hardcore.

It is not that the data was challenged. It is that there was a large scandal at the time predictably called climate gate where emails were leaked from the team who fabricated the data which was not replicable...also Mann refused to publish his actual data over the course of years against Canadian Supreme Court orders.

The point I am making is that this instance is an example of clear fraud. Whether you still believe in the ideas or not is less interesting to me. What I am trying to demonstrate is that there are lots of examples of fraud within the space and there is an enormous amount of financial fraud, resource extraction and extraction of liberties and options from regular people whe the idea of anthropogenic climate change is still debatable much less the rate at which man is having the effect as compared to demonstrable natural cycles.

In the end I am asking you to do what you seem to have done with polygamy. Polygamy while wholesome and life affirming is considered to be the last real cultural taboo. Something caused you to question the cathedral of cultural norms.
Consider questioning the cathedral once again. Just like I mentioned with respect to the covid shenanigans, there is an enormous amount of counter information to what the power structure is pushing.

Besides...(as he origamis a tinfoil hat behind his back) the geomagnetic excursion is accelerating and will make all the climate panic look like squeezy time romper room tier worries. So even if the official narrative is not entirely a resource extraction grift, we have vastly larger problems to consider.
Do consider what I said about the fact that you are willing to question authority in one area but not in others.
You are clearly sharp and I have confidence that were you to see the proverbial confounding variables, you would see more and more and more until you too would become a crafter of tinfoil hats.
Being intentionally silly to make the point that I am not trying to harange you but hopefully make the point that the official narratives are more control mechanisms than necessarily the truth or perhaps all the truth would be better.

 

[Joleneakamama]

If the earth gets destroyed that sucks for us, but the universe will not care. Will God care? Debatable.

Do you know why it is called a universe? Because YHWH spoke it all into existence with a single phrase..."Let there be...."

Jesus told us "I have spoken nothing of myself" neaning he only spoke his father's words. I keep this in mind when reading the record of what our creator spoke through Jesus.
A sparrow cannot fall to the ground without Him knowing...and we are worth more than many sparrows."
There is also that oft cited verse...John 3:16
For YHWH so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes on him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
So, for believers there is no debate.

 

[phaedrus]

Brace yourself. My parents looked into it and gave up. Unlike solar and hydro there was no small scale regulatory process. Basically you have the same rules as Hoover Dam. This might depend on jurisdiction however.

In my location micro hydro is doable. 1. You need to be on the right type of river. 2. You need to own both sides of the river. 3. You need to own enough length of the river not to have the rising water levels damage other people's property. 4. You must fill the reservoir slowly so that you do not noticeably limit your down-river neighbor's access to the water.

If you check off those boxes, you can dam a river. Like everything else, if you made it big enough, I'm sure the Feds would love to get involved though we recently had a supreme court case that invalidates organizations like the EPA from making and enforcing rules so I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on. If it's legal with my state, that's all that matters to me.

 

[phaedrus]

Do you have a architectural plan or something you would wish to share? Do not wish to impede, but that sounds interesting.

Not that I'm willing to share publicly. Not sure if you can send private messages. Reach out that way if you want more info.

 

[paterfamilias]

In my location micro hydro is doable. 1. You need to be on the right type of river. 2. You need to own both sides of the river. 3. You need to own enough length of the river not to have the rising water levels damage other people's property. 4. You must fill the reservoir slowly so that you do not noticeably limit your down-river neighbor's access to the water.

If you check off those boxes, you can dam a river. Like everything else, if you made it big enough, I'm sure the Feds would love to get involved though we recently had a supreme court case that invalidates organizations like the EPA from making and enforcing rules so I doubt they'd have a leg to stand on. If it's legal with my state, that's all that matters to me.

In re the recent decision, while it is a wonderful first step, unfortunately it won't stop their attempts to jack with our lives. If that was the case then the ATF and several of the maladaptive leftist authoritarian anti firearms states would have backed off after the Bruen decision. So my guess is the every single issue will need to be litigated one at a time as part of a lawfair effort at continued control.

The idea of private hydro though... swoon worthy

 

[Mark C]

I have a bank of them, imported direct from China. Mine are good (I've got a couple of poor performing cells at present, after some years of service, but overall they're really good, and I'm hopeful my poor cells will come back to life when I find time to change their electrolyte). However, I have a friend who imported some from China, different brand, and his are absolute crap. So it depends which factory makes them. There seem to be two main factories as far as I can tell, or at least two patterns of battery are produced, and one is crap, but they are visibly very different so you can tell them apart.

Mine are manufactured by Zhuhai CIYI, and used to be sold with different stickers as the Iron Edison brand in the USA. Their factory equipment is of German origin. The manufacturer claims to supply the Chinese military, which I took as a good recommendation, militaries don't buy crap. They have their own downsides, and I do not know if the quality is as good as Edison's original, but I'm fairly happy with them myself.

VERY interesting, Samuel! (And, if we need to fork this to a new thread, or talk privately, fine...) Others may be interested; Iron Edison WAS a major importer in the US, and those are the ones I have/had. (Long story, Iron Edison shipped replacements for failing cells several at a time, the old ones weren't evidently worth a return trip.) But I still have quite a few 'in service' and hope to keep them running at "reduced capacity'" for a long time.

The trick SEEMS to be charging the heck out of them (make SURE you regularly get to exactly 1.65 V/cell - some older charge controllers have difficulty with that.)

And test for failing "weak sister" cells UNDER HEAVY LOAD, in the dark (i.e., no charge input.) You will see a notable IR drop on the ones ready to fail - get 'em out if you can. They will hurt the rest.

I can tell you a LOT about the failure mechanisms; I (and several neighbors) saw many of them fail over time; I eventually consulted with their chief engineer and founder/CEO (also an engineer) about what I had learned as a customer, and who had "learned the hard way" about things they had not recognized.

They are now bankrupt, sadly, largely as a result of the China Syndrome. (I, and my neighbor, were able to get warranty replacements - that's how I ended up with a redundant/backup system and LiFePO4 cells - before they went belly-up.)

There is a manufacturing "defect" (I have yet to see definitive info on what it IS - I suspect Ni plate 'shortcuts' but can't prove it) - and it is POSSIBLE that replacing the alkaline electrolyte may help. I'd be very interested if you try - I have about 20 bad cells here that I may eventually do, "when time permits." Ha...

I bought my neighbors old cells when he unloaded them after a replacement, essentially for scrap. My intent is to see if I can get them to be useful at, say, 50% of rated capacity. (Which still beats lead acid.)

PS> There WERE differences in the Iron Edison imports over time (they didn't share that proprietary data with me, but the label differences were obvious, and I saw a variety of cells over the two-year drama.)

 

[Mark C]

If one believes the increase in temperature is natural then there is likely not mich that can be done.

Whether one 'believes' the bought-and-paid-for narrative is immaterial. Even the alleged "increase" in temperature (see 'heat island," and a dozen other better explanations than will be allowed in what now passes for 'scientific', peer-funded journals) is CYCLICAL, and almost certainly over - for this cycle.

Samuel is correct. And what "can be done" - by those with eyes to see - is prepare for the DOWN part of the cycle, which is cooler, and will involve crop failures.

And you don't even mention that vulcanism (which produces more CO2, dust, ash, and other particulates than man could if he tried) is "statistically" linked to solar cycles. (There are several; the 11-year sunspot is just the most obvious.)

 

[Mark C]

On that at least we are in agreement. Regardless of whether you believe humans are causing the climate to change or not, what a sensible person should do is the same - we should be trying to live sustainably and resiliently. The climate always changes, and we need to be ready for it.

The stupidest thing to do would be to try and reduce CO2 emissions if that means impoverishing ourselves and making us less able to survive. A good example of that is what is going on all over the West: encouraging everyone to have heatpumps instead of fireplaces (increasing reliance on electricity), while pushing for solar / wind electricity generation, which are unreliable (reducing the security of supply).

And don't forget the idiocy of EV mandates. Kalifornia is ALREADY unable to meet grid power demand, and is actually talking about sucking power OUT of the dupes who connect their EV to their grid, to provide buffering for what they fail to provide!

They're "green," - until the hit the landfills. Or the Tyrants learn to do simple math.

Which brings me here:

Of course, it may not be stupidity, it may be deliberate. Some people really do want to reduce the global population, even if that means leaving elderly people to freeze in the winter.

I used to frequently quote the old saw on current events-related radio shows, "never ascribe to Conspiracy that which can b explained by Incompetence" (or stupidity.)

After COVID, mask, socialist distancing, and Poison Poke mandates, and EV mandates (which include subsidies and disincentives like MPG rigging), and "lawfare," and the most recent Spectacularly Failed Hit and Standown - it's hard to argue that ANYONE in positions of power could really be that stupid. The supply chain, from rare earths to food, has been destroyed.

The agenda is Death. And so far, they're batting over .400...

 

[paterfamilias]

VERY interesting, Samuel! (And, if we need to fork this to a new thread, or talk privately, fine...)

Vote for breakaway thread on solar, hydro and even those wind hippies
I imagine there is plenty of interest to sustain (dad joke practice) a conversation

 

[Mark C]

Or efficiency. The Lucid Air has half the battery of a Silverado EV, but twice the efficiency.

You miss the point. "Efficiency" at WHAT, defined by WHAT?"

Joules of energy per unit VOLUME? Or per unit WEIGHT? Or, "total power out divided by total power in?" And OVER WHAT TIME PERIOD? Does it self-discharge?

In an off-grid house, I want maximum power storage, reliability (long-life) and efficiency is a minor point. IF I have to charge to 110% to get out 80% tomorrow, that's actually better than any EV battery that EXISTS, to the best of my knowledge!

Why?

- I don't want my whole house to spontaneously combust!
- I don't really care how much they weigh, or what "weight efficiency" they might have - I ain't gonna MOVE 'em once they're in!
- Likewise, I don't care much about "volumetric efficiency" - if they're a bit bigger or heavier, but I can discharge to 80% over and over for 30 years: SOLD!


Mandates tend to be made by power-hungry morons who think they know better than a customer what said "customer" had better want.


Back when we had a free economy, engineers understood what was called a "cost function." What is MATTERS to the customer who might BUY the thing? Not what we can slam down their throats, because they have no other option.

 

[FollowingHim]

Vote for breakaway thread on solar, hydro and even those wind hippies
I imagine there is plenty of interest to sustain (dad joke practice) a conversation

I just started going through the thread to see how to break it up, and it's very difficult to see where to draw the line on which post to pull out - many are obvious but where does the line lie? Someone just start a new thread and link back to this one.

 

[MemeFan]

Plant reaction is the most difficult to asses. However more plant food itself is not an argument, otherwise dumping nitrogen into the water etc. would not be an issue. Also it does not help if more CO2 leads to a larger forest since if the forest burns, as they do every ~25 years, the CO2 gets released again.

Assesment doesn't matter. Amount of food is always limiter for eater size.

Nope, care less about the politicians, but my parents have taught me the wisdom of peer reviewed work, and that on any given topic there are only about ~ 100, 200 people who are really an authority in their field. It can be difficult to assess who they are.

Biggest proof climate change is scam is oushing of idea that everybody needs to participate and we all need same solution.

Well, climate will always keep changing. Horewer, on different areas of Earth it will have different influence. So it's best to leave to locals how to adapt. But, but, then there is no need global governance or even better global government.

While you lack interest in politicians, they don't lack interest in you.

 

[Jack P.]

Our family has done both, living together and living in 2 separate homes, and now we are back all together. As the others have stated, there isn’t a right or wrong way but I think understanding the reasons supporting your choice is important. Also, situations are rarely “forever” especially if you are a family that is devoted to doing God’s work. We lived together for about 7 years, and then for various reasons we needed 2 homes to work out some things between the 3 of us. It wasn’t supposed to be more than a couple of years but ended up being about 15 years. Thankfully, God provided 2 homes a few minutes away from each other for that season. (I will let @nathan tell you his experience with going back and forth.) Then a new season started and we needed a home that included Nathan’s aging parents. We are now all together, including his parents, in a home God provided for this season.

The season of separate homes was a time of separately growing in maturity while still making an effort at coming together for dinner every night at one of the houses. We vacationed all together and many other things. It gave me and my sister wife time together and time alone to understand more about ourselves and each other. We both have children also, which was a connecting thing as the kids went back and forth between homes for various things.

We were in a much better place relationship wise by the time God asked us to care for Nathan’s parents and get one home. It was still a difficult adjustment to do this, let's face it no one likes major changes. We also had 3 households to combine, and we also had to learn the needs of Nathan’s parents. Kids were moving out, some were coming home and then Covid-19 happened a few months after we moved into the new home. It was a stressful time, to say the least.

It has taken us about 2 years to really get adjusted to things, communicate our needs and desires, and learn to use that muscle of flexibility with each other. God has continued to be faithful and kind to us through it all. We have continued to grow in maturity with Him and with each other. Nathan has continued to guide his family as best he can and to seek the Lord’s help for wisdom as each conflict or insecurity arises.

I personally would encourage you to try and keep your family together under one roof if possible. It will take a lot of prayer, leadership and love from you to make it work. You set the tone of your home, or at least you should, so you need to be intentful about what positive things go on that develop communication, spiritual growth, and connections with your wives and children. That being said, some women need more space to grow in maturity than others for a season but the mindset of intent should still be a priority about how your family functions in two homes. Maybe a new home for both of them is a solution for the second wife to feel more “a part” of the family? In the end honest communication has to happen for anything to move forward in a positive way; I would start there. Well, of course after lots of prayer.

Thank you for sharing

 

[Maia]

A good example of that is what is going on all over the West: encouraging everyone to have heatpumps instead of fireplaces

In Germany for a house in a more rural area we have a furnace that burns wood chips (not pellets, which have the problem that a lot of energy is used to compress them) from an Austrian company called Fröhling. This one:

Hackgutkessel T4e: Pellet & Hackschnitzelheizung 350 kW - Fröling

Der ► Fröling Hackgutkessel T4e ist bis 350 kW erhältlich. Diese Pellet- und Hackschnitzelheizung ist ✔ sparsam, kompakt & effizient!

www.froeling.com

it auto scoops the wood chips from an adjacent storage room. It is mostly automatic. The wood all comes from surrounding forests, that are sustainably managed. Problem: In terms of nitros oxides, and particulates it is much more dirty then a natural gas furnace, even if it has filters. Not an issue in rural areas, but you would not want to heat all of New York City like this.

@Maia, are you a Christian? The questions you raise are immediately answered in the Gospel - people are fundamentally evil, but God loves us anyway and wishes to fix us up and draw us to himself.

Well there was the flood. Even of God he would not do that anymore, he can get annoyed.

Why would the location of something make it more or less important? Is the grass plant in the exact middle of your lawn more important than all the other plants? Or do you care more about the interesting rose bush in the garden at the edge of the lawn? In the same way, it's irrelevant if the earth is at the centre of the universe or not.

What was the issue with Galileo Galilei then?

Why does the amount of energy something emits change how important it is? What is more important to you, a giant heap of rubbish branches on fire or the little flame on your gas hob heating up your soup? Would you care more if the fire on the rubbish went out, or if the gas hob went out?

What actually makes something important?

I wouldn’t put much faith in what comes out from nasa. They have a serpent’s tongue on their logo, and nasa means to greatly deceive in Hebrew. “By their fruit you shall know them.”

I do not know if this is a joke or not.

The swoosh you view as a serpent? That is like searching for symbols in clouds. It took a 5 second google search to find that the 2nd part is wrong.
nâshâ’

naw-shaw’

Close but no cigar.

In the end I am asking you to do what you seem to have done with polygamy. Polygamy while wholesome and life affirming is considered to be the last real cultural taboo. Something caused you to question the cathedral of cultural norms.
Consider questioning the cathedral once again. Just like I mentioned with respect to the covid shenanigans, there is an enormous amount of counter information to what the power structure is pushing.

Personally I do not find most counter points convincing.

Do consider what I said about the fact that you are willing to question authority in one area but not in others.

I have no issue in questioning authority. I am not concerned with anyone's assessment.

You miss the point. "Efficiency" at WHAT, defined by WHAT?"

Joules of energy per unit VOLUME? Or per unit WEIGHT? Or, "total power out divided by total power in?" And OVER WHAT TIME PERIOD? Does it self-discharge?

Well for a car the main criteria is kWh per distance driven.

Weight with cars is a concern, however the chassis and suspension engineers seem to be miracle workers. For a sailboat would actually not be an issue if one could mold the batteries into the keel, while keeping them accessible.

In an off-grid house, I want maximum power storage, reliability (long-life) and efficiency is a minor point. IF I have to charge to 110% to get out 80% tomorrow, that's actually better than any EV battery that EXISTS, to the best of my knowledge!

Obviously in a house the weight is not an issue, and optimizing the system with silicon carbide inverters might also be excessive.

 

[paterfamilias]

What was the issue with Galileo



Personally I do not find most counter points convincing.


I have no issue in questioning authority. I am not concerned with anyone's assessment.

Politics is what I believe I remember being the actual issue.

Re the counter points, I don't know if you are referring to those presented here on the site or if you have consumed others elsewhere or to what extent

Re questioning authority, I sm glad to hear it. Re not being concerned with others assessment, i am not sure if you me us loons here or more broadly.
I do know that on this particular topic, in many areas one could be castigated and penalized for disagreeing the opinion of the cathedral though.

Glad to see that you have not abandoned the site as a bad investment though

 

[NBTX11]

I thought one (sound proof or off to the side) master bedroom where the wives can visit the husband. Each wife can then also have her own bedroom, but they can be side be side no need to worry about "sound."

We don’t worry about sound in our home. We shouldn’t have to be quiet in our own home. It’s our home. If something is heard then it’s heard. Everyone knows what’s going on anyways.

 

[paterfamilias]

We don’t worry about sound in our home. We shouldn’t have to be quiet in our own home. It’s our home. If something is heard then it’s heard. Everyone knows what’s going on anyways.

Ideal world is that if there is happy making and it is overheard, others should be happy for them.
That is not always the case however.