This is addressed to everyone else, but
@MontanaDaniel you may listen in (haha): I think we may all be being provided a singular opportunity here. Mountain Man Dan has entered our midst with a big splash. We may never again experience someone who has done such a significant amount of observing, research, plotting and planning -- combined with being at a place in his life where he is in the infancy of actually implementing what he intends to implement. We have the honor of being spectators for what could be an example for many more to follow -- not to mention perhaps helping some of us recognize where we ourselves have gone wrong in our endeavors to form plural families. Of course, we could also watch him crash and burn (or disappear out of a misguided sense of embarrassment if his grand plans don't materialize), but I prefer to be some of the wind at his back. In a short period of time, Daniel has effectively articulated a combination of what a lot of frustrated men on this Biblical Families web site forum section have described related to their journeys, their cultural assessments, their views on how things
should be but aren't, and suggestions for how to change things. Mountain Man Dan has a Plan, and he sees a great many things very clearly. I desire to cheer him on for the most part, and, if he stumbles, I pray we will all be right there to help him dust himself off and get back on the path.
Shucks Keith... now i HAVE to make it to one of these retreats as soon as I can just to buy you a beer. Thanks for the kind supportive words. I dont want to derail every thread i comment on into off-topic tangents so i may try to avoid being less splashy, we’ll see.
I dont know if i will succeed or fail, only He does, but i can tell you my intentions to do this are absolutely bedrock deep, they cannot be undone, and so getting embarrassed and flailing out of here because i couldnt take a little criticism or my plans were delayed is unlikely, that much i know. in fact i was hoping to come here and sort of “let loose” alot that was in my mind and have it be somewhat eviscerated by experienced polygamists and very knowledgeable biblical Christians. I think a great strength of this community is that in order to ultimately justify, redeem and defend biblical polygyny that many of yall have had to dig DEEP into scripture, and ive been impressed by this front since arriving here. So no, i wont melt, i wont look at the sun once and be blinded and defeated. I am trying to be respectful, but ive also learned to speak my mind when i believe truth is with me. Its like, half confidence, half academic rigor, i suppose, you need both.
So, while were talking about this, by the way...
This is very likely a future thread to be created at some point but i will say here and now in relation to those “frustrated men” you mention that have come and gone with failed polygamous aspirations... we should do something to help out our own kind! Heck, to help me out too, im still single! Haha. And i will brag here a bit... i wager (just a hunch) im probably more resourceful and savvy when it comes to getting what i need and want out of life, polygamous wives included im hoping, than probably many men you folks have seen come and go through here. And so this idea is something i could do on my own, but i would really rather help out any good worthy men who aspire to biblical polygyny by making it a collaborative group effort here at BF, if i could, for the greater good.
And like i said, i might not initiate this project for some time, but, it seems to me that the greatest talent pool of young, quality Christian women out there who WOULD and COULD be converted to biblical polygyny are exactly those christian girls who have a genuinely deep love of God in their hearts and are true Bible-worshipping Christians. Cmon youve met these girls, so have i: They believe in just about everything biblically we would want them to... except of course polygamy. The good news is their numbers are large, i mean were talking about young, devout Christian, monogamous females here, the figure is in the low millions. Not too bad of a starting point.
So the key then becomes, how do people and men (and women) like us who believe in biblical plural marriage successfully find and convert these girls?
This is where my idea comes in, which like i said, at some future point i think would be a great collaborative project for this community to tackle, and i wouldnt mind leading the effort and doing most of the work of drafting even while others provided most of the content far superior to my own lone stabs at it (might have to wait a little while though, we’ll see).
So here it is:
I think there is an incredibly huge gap here between good intent (what BF stands for) and the reality of achieving this dream for aspiring men. I think there needs to be a well thought-out, well written, exhaustively researched, crowd-sourced (BF would provide the right crowd), vetted and edited guidebook of sorts for literally the most effective way to convert regular-society monogamous devout Christian girls to consider and eventually accept polygyny, which for the vast majority of men even me is an incredibly difficult thing to do! Most men would just read that problem statement and say “uhhhh nope. Impossible. Forget it.” But we know that it is possible, albeit very difficult and fraught with risk of failure.
This guidebook might (in exaggerated drastic summarization, obviously) read something like:
1.) find a very devout Christian girl. Could be online dating sites, could be a local church.
2.) Do NOT mention polygamy in any way shape or form right away.
3.) start talking to her, build a social connection and maybe even a romantic pre-marital dating connection, but have it be centered around a love of Christ and devotion to His faith all the while.
4.) still not talking about polygamy, whether in person, online or by phone, suggest the idea to have “bible dates” where you read scripture together and discuss dogma and tenets, and then make it a regular part of your interaction with her. Take the lead on this, show your enthusiasm for God.
5.) increasingly moreso, go over fundamentalist bible material even monogamous Christians adhere to, i.e. the wifes submission to the husband, gender roles, Gods design for men and women, among other topics of course to not be too narrow-tracked about it.
6.) Get to a point where the girl fully agrees with everything biblical and fundamental BEFORE entering or even suggesting polygamy territory, such as hearing her agree that men should lead their households and women and decide whats best for their families based on the bible, statements of affirmation which clearly delineate gender differences and roles per the book.
7.) Then, start reading scripture and discussing polygamy but in a very subtle way that does not seem like you outright either wanting it nor disavowing it, by casually going over scripture which mentions polygyny and multiple wives, and talk about it.
8.) even if done very smoothly and non-chalantly to where the girl doesnt think the man “went there intentionally” she will still have pushback against the idea of it, even if not directed at the man, even if just in open friendly and mutual theological discussion... doesnt matter, she WILL voice her qualms and condemnation soundbytes against polygamy, expect it. Ok, maybe 1/1000 will blurt out “i love the sound of that, lets try it!” In which case great, youve got a winner. For all other 999/1000, keep reading.
9.) be prepared, WELL prepared for her pushbacks and biblical arguments against polygyny (and this is why we would need a collaborated guide for this which is far beyond my skills or knowledge just on my own) so that at every turn, at every possible biblical wall, the man has a biblical sledgehammer and dissolves the barrier, at every possible moral outrage, the man has a biblical morality affirming polygyny (and of course, only “soft” defenses at first to not seem suspiciously outspoken about it just yet), for every negative remark she has, you have scripture backing up a positive counter-remark.
10.) if at some point along steps 8-9 she suspects an ulterior motive (and women are very smart so this is likely) and calls you out on it, i.e. “why do you keep reading verses dealing with polygamy and multiple wives and then talking to me about it, is that what you want?” Then this is a potentially precarious moment, answer honestly but wisely. If she still needs a lot of work and convincing to soften her pre-existing biases, provide a true but mitigated response: “well to be honest it is a recent line of inquiry for me as i dig deeper into the Bible and Gods holy word and discover new wisdom, so i dont yet know what to think completely one way or the other. Im still just exploring it, along with you if you dont mind, but at the end of the day i have to listen to God, and if the bible turns out to accept and condone multiple wives as it did for Moses Jacob and the Kings of Israel among many others, then who am i to go against God? Wouldnt it be my sacred duty as a biblical Christian man to seek out what God truly wants for men and women based on what the bible teaches us? What do you think?” And then depending on how she answers, you have further lines to talk about and keep probing it. Or who knows, at the slightest hint of you NOT strongly condemning polygamy maybe she rages out and you never see her again. There is always that chance. However, if the girl “calls you out” in a very optimistic and friendly, even slightly curious and enticing way, then you know your good work has been paying off, and perhaps a more direct and affirmative (while still somewhat casual) answer might be in order. Step 10 depends alot on what came before and how it goes down.
11.) ??? Blurt out and just ask her to be a 1st/2nd/3rd wife ???
..........
See, this is why we need a more thoroughly researched, crowd-sourced and serious document-like “guide”, to give our (especially younger) men a fighting chance. Otherwise yeah, i suspect the overwhelming number of them will indeed face impossible odds, with no magical pool of available polygamous girls to talk to (even with online poly dating sites theyre pretty scarce, especially with younger women) and quickly find their hopes dashed, get frustrated, wave the white flag and usually quietly slink away back into regular society and begrudging failed monogamy.
Now, if the Bible really does condone and even promote polygyny, and i firmly believe it does and God does as well, despite the modern Christian world having become ill-convinced of monogamy (which makes no sense when you think about it biblically, biologically, sexually, socially, financially, etc), then should we not as responsible Christians create the means by which our own kin, fellow polygamous fundamentalist Christian men, would be able to successfully (or at least with far higher rate of probability) convert monogamous Christian girls into biblical polygamy, Gods true intent for men and women?
I mean, im completely open to feedback on this idea (sorry if its the wrong thread, just sort of happened here i guess), but just for starters i would warn that anybody arguing “No, this is a bad idea because its too conniving and Machiavellian, youre asking people to help you create a Christian psychological-CIA-brainwashing document to subvert young girls. If it works with a girl its because you asked her directly from the beginning and she either said yes or no” ... to please remember that all it amounts to is a carefully considered collection of biblical truths sprinkled with social/dating/ladies advice composed in such a way to help men talk to, navigate and ultimately (with the girl’s own conscious willing approval) convert monogamous Christian girls into what we all here believe is better, polygamy, in a way that, despite any practical and tactful approaches used, is honest and not deceptive in spirit, while still being tailored to getting results.
Furthermore i would add that it would and should be the WOMEN here at BF to help out and contribute the most, because without them it would not be a very good guide in the end. It would require biblical knowledge in spades and the men here too have this, but with a deeply considered feminine viewpoint at every line of every page, since of course the whole point of such a guide would be to understand and interact with the minds and hearts of real female girls. And who better to help advise and compose such a document than real polygamous females. I think both sexes working together should be involved, but yeah, i stand by that.
