Can something be true without it being a law?And a rule with an exception is not a Law.
Can something be true without it being a law?And a rule with an exception is not a Law.
1 Corinthians 11 is a very confusing passage and I am grateful that we have Eph. 5 to turn to when addressing God's established hierarchy. For this topic though, I think the following article is very relevant. I find it very convincing.1 Corinthians 11 is talking about a literal covering. That covering is obviously symbolic of authority, but doesn't teach us much theology about that authority, nor does it show that the authority itself should be called a "covering".
Of course but that’s not the question. We’re trying to figure out what “covering” is in order to find out if it’s required. We talk about covering as being an imperative.Can something be true without it being a law?
And a rule with an exception is not a Law.
Fair enough.What about Shabbat? We are told not to do work on that day unless it is for a good deed.
The translation of the text is accurate.According to the article 1 Cor. 11:10 should read: 10. Therefore the woman is morally obligated to have authority on her head, because of the angels.
Are you suggesting my wives are not modern but are archaic and old?? Shall I send them to visit with a rusty scalpel to do a vasectomy?Sorry fellas but your modern woman doesn't need you, she has her Snuggy™, Slanket™, bottle of Skinny Girl chardonnay and corporate dystopia reinforced social anxiety to keep her warm at night
When is doing a good deed work?What about Shabbat? We are told not to do work on that day unless it is for a good deed.
I think you misread what I posted or its meaning.When is doing a good deed work?
I don't think doing a good deed on rest-day, even if not a matter of life or death, is truly an "exception."
I think there are those who hide behind legalistic but false holiness to either practice evil or avoid doing the good their conscience calls them to do. Jesus was very good at identifying these folk, and Paul also, among others, emphasized this.
Maybe you could help my understanding if you gave me an example of a good deed that when performed on the Sabbath is a violation of Keeping Sabbath.I think you misread what I posted or its meaning.
I was stating Keeping Sabbath is a Law and yet the exception is when you do a good deed. So a Law with an exception.
Maybe you could help my understanding if you gave me an example of a good deed that when performed on the Sabbath is a violation of Keeping Sabbath.
Then, I could consider that, in order for that good deed to manifest, an exception to the Law regarding Keeping Sabbath is required.
If no such example exists... then there is no exception.
Oh, and I'll reread your post to see what I might have previously misread.
But is there anywhere in Torah where it forbids healing on the Sabbath? It is possible that Jesus is not giving an exception, but rather in his capacity as Rabbi simply expounding the existing law. The Pharisees may have incorrectly thought Torah forbids healing on the Sabbath, and Jesus' point may be that healing is not "work" so was never covered by the law in the first place.Luke 13:14
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Not only do I like that answer, but I like the gentleness of it.But is there anywhere in Torah where it forbids healing on the Sabbath? It is possible that Jesus is not giving an exception, but rather in his capacity as Rabbi simply expounding the existing law. The Pharisees may have incorrectly thought Torah forbids healing on the Sabbath, and Jesus' point may be that healing is not "work" so was never covered by the law in the first place.
This is a bit of a sidetrack though, if you want to go into that in detail it's probably better elsewhere.
Very interesting to read. Thank you.What is a covering
1st Corinthians 11 does not say what many think it says. Between doctrines of men and bad translations, we can get a poor understanding of it. It never talks about a physical (literal) covering other than the woman's hair. It is talking about authority and headship. Remember the context. Messiah is the head of man, and man is the head of woman, and Yahweh is the head of Messiah. If you don't believe me, go study when we first see Jews using head coverings. To anyone that thinks they are required, I will point you back to the Torah and Prophets. Show me one verse that they are required. Btw I have no quarrel with men who ask their women to cover. Its not biblically required but men are free to rule their own house.
Do we have scriptures that mention coverings?
Ezekiel 16
8¶And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time is a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine
.
The spreading of the skirt over her is Him covering her.
Ruth 3
7And Boaz eateth and drinketh, and his heart is glad; and he goeth in to lie down at the end of the heap; and she cometh in gently, and uncovereth his feet, and lieth down.
8¶And it cometh to pass, at the middle of the night, that the man trembleth, and turneth himself, and lo, a woman is lying at his feet.
9And he saith, 'Who art thou?' and she saith, 'I am Ruth thy handmaid, and thou hast spread thy skirt over thy handmaid, for thou art a redeemer.'
10¶And he saith, 'Blessed art thou of Jehovah, my daughter; thou hast dealt more kindly at the latter end than at the beginning -- not to go after the young men, either poor or rich.
11And now, my daughter, fear not, all that thou sayest I do to thee, for all the gate of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman
.
Ruth is asking to have Boaz spread his covering over her.
Psalm 91
4With His pinion He covereth thee over, And under His wings thou dost trust, A shield and buckler is His truth
.
The word wing is the same Hebrew word as skirt. Either way that its translated into english shows us it's a covering.
Exodus 19
4Ye -- ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself
.
Again same Hebrew for wing/skirt
Exodus 25 and 37 show us the Cherubim use their wings to cover (protect) the mercy seat.
Deuteronomy 22
30¶'A man doth not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's skirt
.
The father has his skirt covering the woman.
Deuteronomy 27
20¶'Cursed is he who is lying with his father's wife, for he hath uncovered his father's skirt, -- and all the people have said, Amen.
Deuteronomy 32
7Remember days of old -- Understand the years of many generations -- Ask thy father, and he doth tell thee; Thine elders, and they say to thee:
8In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam -- He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel.
9For Jehovah's portion is His people, Jacob is the line of His inheritance.
10He findeth him in a land -- a desert, And in a void -- a howling wilderness, He turneth him round -- He causeth him to understand -- He keepeth him as the apple of His eye.
11As an eagle waketh up its nest, Over its young ones fluttereth, Spreadeth its wings -- taketh them, Beareth them on its pinions; --
12Jehovah alone doth lead him, And there is no strange god with him
.
Psalm 17
8Keep me as the apple, the daughter of the eye; In shadow of Thy wings thou dost hide me
.
Psalm 36
7How precious is Thy kindness, O God, And the sons of men In the shadow of Thy wings do trust.
Psalm 57
1¶To the Overseer. -- 'Destroy not.' -- A secret treasure of David, in his fleeing from the face of Saul into a cave. Favour me, O God, favour me, For in Thee is my soul trusting, And in the shadow of Thy wings I trust, Until the calamities pass over
.
Psalm 61
4I sojourn in Thy tent to the ages, I trust in the secret place of Thy wings. Selah
.
Psalm 63
7For Thou hast been a help to me, And in the shadow of Thy wings I sing
.
H3671 - kānāp
̄wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt
wing
extremity
skirt, corner (of garment
)
For those interested, this is the same word used of when He commands us to where our tzitzit. He wants us to show that He has covered us. He is our covering.
I disagree . The whole context of 1Cor.11 is a woman covering her long hair and if she doesn't then she should shave her head, but if it's shameful for a woman to have short hair like a man then she should cover. The statement in verse 15" for her hair is given her for a covering" does not mean that the hair is the covering but that the long hair is the incentive for a woman to cover, thus serving a twofold purpose of covering the beauty of her long hair and symbolizing man's authority over herWhat is a covering
1st Corinthians 11 does not say what many think it says. Between doctrines of men and bad translations, we can get a poor understanding of it. It never talks about a physical (literal) covering other than the woman's hair. It is talking about authority and headship. Remember the context. Messiah is the head of man, and man is the head of woman, and Yahweh is the head of Messiah. If you don't believe me, go study when we first see Jews using head coverings. To anyone that thinks they are required, I will point you back to the Torah and Prophets. Show me one verse that they are required. Btw I have no quarrel with men who ask their women to cover. Its not biblically required but men are free to rule their own house.
Do we have scriptures that mention coverings?
Ezekiel 16
8¶And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time is a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine
.
The spreading of the skirt over her is Him covering her.
Ruth 3
7And Boaz eateth and drinketh, and his heart is glad; and he goeth in to lie down at the end of the heap; and she cometh in gently, and uncovereth his feet, and lieth down.
8¶And it cometh to pass, at the middle of the night, that the man trembleth, and turneth himself, and lo, a woman is lying at his feet.
9And he saith, 'Who art thou?' and she saith, 'I am Ruth thy handmaid, and thou hast spread thy skirt over thy handmaid, for thou art a redeemer.'
10¶And he saith, 'Blessed art thou of Jehovah, my daughter; thou hast dealt more kindly at the latter end than at the beginning -- not to go after the young men, either poor or rich.
11And now, my daughter, fear not, all that thou sayest I do to thee, for all the gate of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman
.
Ruth is asking to have Boaz spread his covering over her.
Psalm 91
4With His pinion He covereth thee over, And under His wings thou dost trust, A shield and buckler is His truth
.
The word wing is the same Hebrew word as skirt. Either way that its translated into english shows us it's a covering.
Exodus 19
4Ye -- ye have seen that which I have done to the Egyptians, and I bear you on eagles' wings, and bring you in unto Myself
.
Again same Hebrew for wing/skirt
Exodus 25 and 37 show us the Cherubim use their wings to cover (protect) the mercy seat.
Deuteronomy 22
30¶'A man doth not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's skirt
.
The father has his skirt covering the woman.
Deuteronomy 27
20¶'Cursed is he who is lying with his father's wife, for he hath uncovered his father's skirt, -- and all the people have said, Amen.
Deuteronomy 32
7Remember days of old -- Understand the years of many generations -- Ask thy father, and he doth tell thee; Thine elders, and they say to thee:
8In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam -- He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel.
9For Jehovah's portion is His people, Jacob is the line of His inheritance.
10He findeth him in a land -- a desert, And in a void -- a howling wilderness, He turneth him round -- He causeth him to understand -- He keepeth him as the apple of His eye.
11As an eagle waketh up its nest, Over its young ones fluttereth, Spreadeth its wings -- taketh them, Beareth them on its pinions; --
12Jehovah alone doth lead him, And there is no strange god with him
.
Psalm 17
8Keep me as the apple, the daughter of the eye; In shadow of Thy wings thou dost hide me
.
Psalm 36
7How precious is Thy kindness, O God, And the sons of men In the shadow of Thy wings do trust.
Psalm 57
1¶To the Overseer. -- 'Destroy not.' -- A secret treasure of David, in his fleeing from the face of Saul into a cave. Favour me, O God, favour me, For in Thee is my soul trusting, And in the shadow of Thy wings I trust, Until the calamities pass over
.
Psalm 61
4I sojourn in Thy tent to the ages, I trust in the secret place of Thy wings. Selah
.
Psalm 63
7For Thou hast been a help to me, And in the shadow of Thy wings I sing
.
H3671 - kānāp
̄wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt
wing
extremity
skirt, corner (of garment
)
For those interested, this is the same word used of when He commands us to where our tzitzit. He wants us to show that He has covered us. He is our covering.
While that's your opinion and your welcome to it, that's not what the scripture says. Every matter is to be established by the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses. Provide the witnesses.I disagree . The whole context of 1Cor.11 is a woman covering her long hair and if she doesn't then she should shave her head, but if it's shameful for a woman to have short hair like a man then she should cover. The statement in verse 15" for her hair is given her for a covering" does not mean that the hair is the covering but that the long hair is the incentive for a woman to cover, thus serving a twofold purpose of covering the beauty of her long hair and symbolizing man's authority over her