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Exodus 22:16-17: "pre-marital sex" = the beginning of marriage?

The word law is usually from the Hebrew word "Torah." Torah in Hebrew means instruction. Some english translations get it right by translating it to "Instruction" versus "law." For example:

Proverbs 3:1 (KJV)
My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments.

Proverbs 3:1 (Berean Bible)
My son, do not forget my instruction, and let your heart keep my commands.

The Hebrew word is "Torah." Torah means instruction:

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The Messiah - who is the word of the Father made flesh - is the Torah made flesh. If people don't get sanctified by the Father's instructions - rejecting the flesh of Messiah - they have no life.

John 6:53
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Peter in verse 68 - "You have the words that give eternal life."

Revelation 19:13
He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

When he met the adversary on the mountain - the Messiah quoted the Torah three times against the devil. He quoted the book of Deuteronomy. The Torah is a weapon against the devil. It prevents you from falling into his bondage. Why would any Christian celebrate it was nailed on the cross? I've heard it preached many times - "It’s too hard." Nonsense - the Father in Heaven says it's not too hard to keep his Torah.

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So Jewish language and English language concept of instruction isn't same. Why are using misleading English words?

In English, instruction is more intellectual understanding and definitely not behaviour which hitting mark implies.


Why are there so many Christian believers that say they love "Jesus", but hate the Torah? They are "Echad." Meaning Jesus is the word made flesh. You can't hate the instructions of the Father (His Torah), and love Jesus. It's a massive contradiction.

The woman's virginity goes back to the man - because the instruction is clear - the man that takes her virginity must marry her.
Most women today aren't virgins.

What this proves is your inability to think in concepts and principles over rules. This reminds me of something: some Jewish religious leader for whom Jesus did have choice word for perfection in following rules and not getting concepts of mercy.....

Fundamental reality is that your approach is totally useless in current situation. Do you understand that family formation and keeping family together is point of sexual rules in Torah?

West suffer from total breakdown of family formation. Young people don't even have any effective idea how to select partner and stay together.

And your solution is to insist that first guy to boink virgin must marry her. Do you even think of real life consequences of such idea? By following you, she almost certainly won't marry good guy for her. She will marry some idiot which will destroy her life.

Unskilled people can't avoid making mistakes, so advising them to some permenant solution only results in mistake cementing in concrete which is total idiocy. Best what can be expect is real try for "proper relationship".

Only real solution is to rebuild relationship skill of people.

I do hope that brands of Christianity with zero understanding of current reality and blindly offering solutions with regard for consequence will die as soon as possible.

Remember that 2nd command of love is supreme with regard to human to human relationship. Rest, including virginity command can be safely disregarded when it's in conflict with 2nd love commands.

Moral values must have hierarchy and since Torah commands must imply moral hierarchy therefore Torah commands between themselves must have hierarchy which means lower hierarchical commands can be throw away to fullfil higher hierarhical commands.
 
So Jewish language and English language concept of instruction isn't same. Why are using misleading English words?
I reckon it’s the same reason other words are mis-translated - to deceive.
Most women today aren't virgins.
All the more reason to return to the Father.

What this proves is your inability to think in concepts and principles over rules. This reminds me of something: some Jewish religious leader for whom Jesus did have choice word for perfection in following rules and not getting concepts of mercy.....
Yes, because Messiah saw right through them. They were weaponizing the Torah for their benefit; by doing selective enforcement.

Fundamental reality is that your approach is totally useless in current situation. Do you understand that family formation and keeping family together is point of sexual rules in

West suffer from total breakdown of family formation. Young people don't even have any effective idea how to select partner and stay together.

And your solution is to insist that first guy to boink virgin must marry her. Do you even think of real life consequences of such idea? By following you, she almost certainly won't marry good guy for her. She will marry some idiot which will destroy her life.
The first man she opens her legs to is her husband; unless her father says no. Perhaps she should had gone to her father first before opening her legs. Choices have consequences. If there are no consequences, then they will continue to sleep around. Which causes breakdown of society. See - rejecting the flesh of the Son destroys the family unit.

I do hope that brands of Christianity with zero understanding of current reality and blindly offering solutions with regard for consequence will die as soon as possible.

Remember that 2nd command of love is supreme with regard to human to human relationship. Rest, including virginity command can be safely disregarded when it's in conflict with 2nd love commands.

Moral values must have hierarchy and since Torah commands must imply moral hierarchy therefore Torah commands between themselves must have hierarchy which means lower hierarchical commands can be throw away to fullfil higher hierarhical commands.
They are already dead. They reject the flesh of Messiah, so they are the walking dead until they repent.

The first step is to acknowledge that just like heaven is higher than earth; so are his ways higher than our ways.

The first commandment is to love the Father. Keep his instructions, and walk in his ways. Where people have failed - he will deliver. The chess pieces are already being moved into their positions, and the kings of the earth are building underground bunkers for what’s coming. Including the Trump family.

Genesis 15:16
After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction

I reckon with how quickly they want their underground bunkers built - the sins of the western world is coming close to warrant our destruction.
 
You don't instruct someone by killing him. Literally, dead can't learn.

Are you admitting physical violence in your father's house? How do you think law is enforced?


Rulership based on violence doesn't make you popular among people, but hated. Lord must know this.
You are really making some ridiculous arguments.
 
I reckon it’s the same reason other words are mis-translated - to deceive.
Maybe. It can be innocent mistake.

Strange how only reason for mistranslation for you deception.

Yes, because Messiah saw right through them. They were weaponizing the Torah for their benefit; by doing selective enforcement.
That was description of you, too.

The first man she opens her legs to is her husband; unless her father says no. Perhaps she should had gone to her father first before opening her legs. Choices have consequences. If there are no consequences, then they will continue to sleep around. Which causes breakdown of society. See - rejecting the flesh of the Son destroys the family unit.
Lol, still useless advice.

If knowledge is lost society wide, running to father won't help since he has no idea what is doing too.

Man, maybe you should think more before running to Bible?

Btw, if rejecting Son destroys family, then how did Muslims after converting Christians in Middle East keep having functional families?

Maybe because family formation is social technology which can be figured out without Bible?

They are already dead. They reject the flesh of Messiah, so they are the walking dead until they repent.

The first step is to acknowledge that just like heaven is higher than earth; so are his ways higher than our ways.

The first commandment is to love the Father. Keep his instructions, and walk in his ways. Where people have failed - he will deliver. The chess pieces are already being moved into their positions, and the kings of the earth are building underground bunkers for what’s coming. Including the Trump family.

Genesis 15:16
After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction

I reckon with how quickly they want their underground bunkers built - the sins of the western world is coming close to warrant our destruction.

No, they are only one with any hope to stay alive.

Something doesn't stay because Lord wills it. It must be socially useful too. You know, humans have free will and therefore they must choose to accept it.

Just look at your virgin idea. You can scream and threathen how it's Lord's will, but people don't accept it.
 
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You are really making some ridiculous arguments.
It's not.

You can't take one concept and translate it in another language where it means something different. When you do, you get something like my post.

Nobody with right mind translate English "gift" to German "gift". In English it means to receive something good, while in German it means poison.
 
You are exactly correct. So build on the TRUTH or you guarantee failure again and again.
But are you out of touch as @Otto?

Telling people what they should do differently in past doesn't help them with their current situation. But it does help with your feelings of moral superiority.

For example, what is @Otto's advice for 35 year woman with several ex-boyfriends? Sorry, you should married your hymen breaker. Or her father should force "boyfriend" into marriage. Yea, telling father to do what society explicity rejects.

See, it's totally useless advice.

And his virginity marriage is totally unenforcable by any meaningful scale in Western society. There won't be any morality police checking girls virginities in schools in next decade at least. Neither, social pressure exist to force your couple into marriage. And what are you going to do in case older man? Shame him? Lol.

Unless you mean to run to homestead/compound and hide children from world and children protection service.

If Christianity wants to remain mainstream religion, it needs to speak to mainstream with real benefits to their current life.

West could potentially normalize polygyny in next decade because all those cat ladies still want a husband, but you here are obsessed with virgins.
 
You can't take one concept and translate it in another language where it means something different.
The concept of laws or instructions are the same in either language.
A law is generally an instruction on what not to do. The further instruction from Yah teaches us what to do with people that break those instructions/laws.

Putting a person to death who cannot follow instructions is not intended to teach him anything, it is intended to teach others the consequences of ignoring those instructions.
Society has gone soft on punishing crime and we are living with the results.
 
The concept of laws or instructions are the same in either language.
A law is generally an instruction on what not to do. The further instruction from Yah teaches us what to do with people that break those instructions/laws.

Putting a person to death who cannot follow instructions is not intended to teach him anything, it is intended to teach others the consequences of ignoring those instructions.
Society has gone soft on punishing crime and we are living with the results.
Yes. I would add to that, the death penalty removes the option/possibly for re-offending. As far as I'm aware it's been 100% effective. :)
 
Yes. I would add to that, the death penalty removes the option/possibly for re-offending. As far as I'm aware it's been 100% effective. :)
Yup, if that don’t learn’em……..
 
The concept of laws or instructions are the same in either language.
A law is generally an instruction on what not to do. The further instruction from Yah teaches us what to do with people that break those instructions/laws.

Putting a person to death who cannot follow instructions is not intended to teach him anything, it is intended to teach others the consequences of ignoring those instructions.
Society has gone soft on punishing crime and we are living with the results.
They are not the same concept.

Law implies existence of court and enforcement mechanism which instruction.

If friend ask you for advice and he doesn't do as you have instructed him, can you drag him to court? No.

So, not the same concept.

Just checking English dictionary disproves they are.


Law is connected with legal system, while instruction with teaching. But teaching law isn't same as law per se.
 
No, because some here have married women who were raped or divorced, or were women who were like Rahab, but like Rahab, God saved them by His grace.
You have changed the topic.

You are like government bureaucrat happy with high salary job not noticing rest of population is dealing with 25% unemployment rate.

I write @Otto's advice is stupid for general society and you write "I and my friends have working situation". So this is passivity in another form. I don't need to do anything because my personal situation is fine.

Does anyone here have any vision greater than their own ass and their own family?

Do you even ask yourself in what kind of society would you like to like? Will you do anything to make society more rightneous?

I'm certain that men here will bitch about public school than do anything to take public school board seat from commie.

This is what happens with narrow vision. Others create society where you have to hide as mammals from dinosaurus. Maybe opposite is better.
 
Will you do anything to make society more rightneous?
Since you measure righteousness by your standard we are not going to agree. According to the Word of God the only One who can make a sinner righteous is Almighty God; not you, not me. The part I have been given is to proclaim the gospel so that sinners might hear, believe, and be saved by His grace - which I have actively been doing. When sinners hear, believe, are saved, and obey, society is made more righteous. One of those sinners who heard and who God made righteous is now my wife. Cheers
 
The Creator says why:

Duet 22:21
Because, she has done an outrageous thing in Israel by whoring in her father’s house. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

In the example above - her father didn’t know his daughter was whoring. Why? Because the husband paid the bride price for virgins. So it was something the daughter did in secret (she hid it away from her father).

There is zero room for whoring in the Father’s instructions. Even if the man purchases a slave - if he takes her - then she is upgraded to a wife. If he gives her to his son - she then becomes his daughter-in-law.

What about a boyfriend? If he takes her virginity - he must marry her. What if he doesn’t want to? She needs to report it to her father, so the man can be punished. It doesn’t mean she can’t ever marry. Of course she can - but the difference is the man marrying her knows she’s not a virgin - and there is no bride price to be paid. Versus the husband assuming she’s a virgin, and her father accepting the bride price. These instructions ensure whoring is not present. The punishment for secretly whoring in her father’s house is severe on the woman, and every woman is born with a hymen (so it can’t be hidden).
What outrageous thing has she done? What is this sin of whoring? Where is it defined for us?
 
You don't instruct someone by killing him. Literally, dead can't learn.

Are you admitting physical violence in your father's house? How do you think law is enforced?


Rulership based on violence doesn't make you popular among people, but hated. Lord must know this.
I love this movie.
 
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