A bit ago this came up on another thread.
We were as surprised as others on that thread seemed to be, to find out that some believers saw these passages as unfulfilled.
Many people really don't get into theology or scripture and are fine ignoring most of what is before and after John 3:16
For these, whatever the pastor preaches on is fine and he's a really good pastor too! He just preaches it right out of the bible. *nods head*
We have long seen those passages as fulfilled, and are curious as to how you reconcile some of these following scriptures that suggest (I would say proves) a past/present fulfillment.
There is much confusion surrounding the term gentile, with most thinking it means non Jew/non Israelite. Probably in part because no one knows the meaning of the Latin word that "gentiles" derives from. These gentiles were the "lost sheep of the house of Israel." (See John where they wondered where Yeshua would go where they couldn't come....to the dispersed among the Greeks?)
Hosea said that the two houses would come together and appoint themselves one head. Paul wrote about this fulfillment when he wrote about Yeshua breaking down the wall of partition to make of twain one new man. Also in Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Now that sounds like the "two sticks" of Ezekiel became one long ago!
Paul in Romans 9:23-25 wrote the following
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Now Osee is Hosea, and it surely appears Paul is referencing these being called as fulfilling that prophesy.
Here is another passage. Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Now that is describing an aspect of the new covenant of Jer. 31:31 that was present at that time, how can this be if this is all still future?
I understand some verses read differently in different translations. Look at the difference in these two verses in Eze. 36
Kjv
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Niv
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
Verses talking about gathering need to be considered in light of Gen. 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Verses talking about the "land I gave your fathers" may look different in light of Jer. 7 There are some BIG IFs in that chapter....and Yeshua spoke some of those words cleansing the temple....and later lamenting over Jerusalem.
So, how do these verses fit or get reconciled with the view that holds the new covenant being a future event?
We were as surprised as others on that thread seemed to be, to find out that some believers saw these passages as unfulfilled.
Many people really don't get into theology or scripture and are fine ignoring most of what is before and after John 3:16
For these, whatever the pastor preaches on is fine and he's a really good pastor too! He just preaches it right out of the bible. *nods head*
We have long seen those passages as fulfilled, and are curious as to how you reconcile some of these following scriptures that suggest (I would say proves) a past/present fulfillment.
There is much confusion surrounding the term gentile, with most thinking it means non Jew/non Israelite. Probably in part because no one knows the meaning of the Latin word that "gentiles" derives from. These gentiles were the "lost sheep of the house of Israel." (See John where they wondered where Yeshua would go where they couldn't come....to the dispersed among the Greeks?)
Hosea said that the two houses would come together and appoint themselves one head. Paul wrote about this fulfillment when he wrote about Yeshua breaking down the wall of partition to make of twain one new man. Also in Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Now that sounds like the "two sticks" of Ezekiel became one long ago!
Paul in Romans 9:23-25 wrote the following
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Now Osee is Hosea, and it surely appears Paul is referencing these being called as fulfilling that prophesy.
Here is another passage. Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Now that is describing an aspect of the new covenant of Jer. 31:31 that was present at that time, how can this be if this is all still future?
I understand some verses read differently in different translations. Look at the difference in these two verses in Eze. 36
Kjv
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Niv
24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.
Verses talking about gathering need to be considered in light of Gen. 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Verses talking about the "land I gave your fathers" may look different in light of Jer. 7 There are some BIG IFs in that chapter....and Yeshua spoke some of those words cleansing the temple....and later lamenting over Jerusalem.
So, how do these verses fit or get reconciled with the view that holds the new covenant being a future event?
