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God's Calling

One woman, one man = covenant is between the man and his wife. Each marriage within a polygynous marriage involves one woman and one man. The women are not married to each other. Therefore when the man dies, the women are no longer tethered together and can make independent decisions about where they go on from that point.

The law does not prevent a man from marrying 2 sisters. It does prevent him from marrying a mother and daughter. It does prevent him from marrying his father's wife. It puts a CONDITION on marrying sisters - do not do it if it will vex her. So as long as it is not vexing, he may proceed.

I always joke that it is very easy to raise children. Right up to the point when you actually have them. For some reason they have not read the same parenting manual you did and do not follow the script!

It is a similar experience with living in a plural family. It does not matter how prepared you are. People sit around and discuss at great length: do we tell the neighbors, which family members do we tell and how do we tell them, what traits will the SW we select have (Hah - God already picked someone different for you), should we have a ceremony, how will we handle the finances etc. All good things to discuss. Keep in mind you are having the discussion with a critical person missing from the discussion and the new SW might have some opinions and thoughts on those subjects herself.

The people on this forum are not trying to criticize you to rain on your parade. They do it with a spirit of love and caring because they want you to be prepared and not to stumble into the same mistakes that are made over and over again. You will find that people who have been living in plural marriage will have a somewhat heightened knowledge of the scriptures pertaining to plural marriage - this is a necessary life skill because they have to defend their lifestyle on a regular basis.

As for scriptures - you will find a wide variety of people here. Some are not believers, some are believers but are "baby Christians" with a shaky grasp of the Bible and some are very knowledgeable. All of the above are accommodated with love and tolerance wherever they are at on their path of life.
 
Mary, I am very glad that you have come to understand that polygyny is a Godly option for marriage. I also understand that this is extremely difficult for you - it is for many people. The people on this website have been through this, have studied it and some are even practicing it and have been for years. We are very happy to have you here, and wish to offer you support.

Unfortunately you are starting from the presumption that people are going to hate you for this knowledge, and every minor disagreement you are taking as a personal attack. You even start insisting you are not attracted to women - but nobody had accused you of that. You are so sure we will hate you, it is very sad to see.

Yes, the world will hate you for coming to this understanding - but we love you.

We are one of the few groups who will actually accept you, and offer you support, prayer, and fellowship where you can discuss polygyny openly without fear of being labelled an evil lustful sinner... As part of that support individuals will at times disagree with you - that is healthy, if we all thought the same we would never learn anything new. But disagreement does not mean hate, on the contrary, we love you enough to be willing to take the time to discuss this with you.

Whenever you do need someone to talk to, we are here. With open arms.
 
You can do whatever you want. Just because I have been told to do this a certain way doesn't mean you have to, neither does it mean I have to do it your way. Personal preference does not doctrine make. God has allowed liberty in this area.

The following article provides good biblical understanding in this area.

http://www.righteouswarriors.com/contro ... icle8.html

"Menage a Trois"

We have determined that there is no Scriptural condemnation of female-female sexual relations, except perhaps if we expanded the definition of whoring (zanah) to apply regardless of gender. In any event, there are no specific prohibitions as there are for male-male relations. So the question remains as to where the boundaries lie in the female-female relationship within a polygynous marriage.

To be completely honest, I'm not sure I have a Scriptural answer for this one. Elohim's Word does not prohibit a polygynous man from enjoying sex with his wives simultaneously. It is neither condemned nor approved in the Bible, and although I have an opinion on this matter, I believe it's important to stick close to what the Bible says (or doesn't say) in this regard.

Certainly the best way to look at this issue is to clarify what "sin" is. People can debate all day long about whether such-and-such practices are advisable, beneficial, hurtful or dangerous. But when it comes to defining something as "sinful", our opinions cease to matter.

Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. (1 John 3:4, The Scriptures)

Sin is specifically defined in 1 John 3:4 as "lawlessness", or "transgression of the law". That gives us a clear objective point on which to discuss whether something is sin or not. The Bible lists the various things which in Elohim's eyes are sexually immoral: whoring (zanah), a man uncovering the nakedness of specific family members, a man uncovering the nakedness of a woman during her menses, adultery, a man having anal sexual intercourse with another male, and a man or a woman having sexual intercourse with an animal. Beyond that, the Bible is pretty much quiet.

We are told nothing about sexual conduct within a polygynous marriage. In fact, the only piece of love-making we have in the Scriptures, the Song of Solomon, describes the intimacy of one man and one woman and has traditionally been used as a lover's manual over the centuries. It is my belief that everything one needs to know regarding sexual conduct in a marriage is to be found in that book.

I personally would be unwilling to add restrictions that Elohim did not. We do not require special permission to do something that Elohim did not specifically prohibit while prohibiting a series of other relationships in the same area. He went to extraordinary lengths to cover the various prohibited sexual practices and yet there is no mention anywhere in Scripture regarding female-female intimacy.

It is quite likely that the very reason that Scripture is silent on this issue is due to polygynous marriages. It may simply be that Elohim chose not to place unmanageable restrictions within the marriage bed, such as "You stay on this side", "You face this way", "No moving your arm past this point", etc. I doubt that this was a total non-issue in a population of millions where polygynous marriage was common.

Where the Scriptures do not speak, we must seek personal direction from the Spirit of Elohim. Where we are unsure, we must live by our conscience to some degree while we discover the truth. But I must urge caution to those living within a polygynous marriage relationship today:

However, not all have this knowledge. But some, being aware of the idol, until now eat it as having been offered to an idol, so their conscience, being weak, is defiled. But food does not commend us to Elohim, for we are none the better if we eat, nor any worse for not eating. But look to it, lest somehow this right of yours becomes a stumbling-block to those who are weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's place, shall not his conscience, if he is weak, be built up to eat food offered to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Messiah died, shall perish through your knowledge! Now sinning in this way against the brothers, and wounding their weak conscience, you sin against Messiah. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I am never again going to eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. (1 Corinthians 8:7-13, The Scriptures)

As followers of Yahushua, we must take special care not to become a stumbling block to our brothers and sisters in Messiah. This is an exceedingly sensitive subject and one that could easily be misunderstood. It should be obvious that a woman doesn't need to be "abnormal" at all for enjoying her beloved sister-wife making love to their common husband. At the same time, we should be reluctant to place specific restrictions that Elohim did not, even for practices which we don't particularly want to engage ourselves. The best advice I could give on this matter is to take the "if it's not prohibited, it is permitted" stance, while at the same time clarifying that if you're in doubt, avoid it altogether.

Conclusion

Messianic believers within Western society have an inbuilt doctrine inherited from the Catholics and Protestants which teaches that sex is somehow "nasty" and "dirty", even between married people. That has largely been overcome, for good and evil, as a result of the 1960's youth rebellion, except now things have swung in the opposite direction where sex has been exalted and blown out of proportion relative to its true place within the human experience. If Biblical Polygyny is going to be successful and find a proper balance, it must excise both of these destructive elements.

This is a very difficult matter for some believers to accept. I myself struggled with this revelation for over a year, studying Scriptures for hours at a time, trying to find evidence to the contrary. But in the end, I had to accept what was written in His Word. There are no Scriptures anywhere in the Bible that indicate polygyny is wrong or sinful, and I can no longer condemn such marriages. In most cases, one-wife marriages will probably continue to be the most common arrangement. No man should be condemned for only having one wife, but neither should we condemn those with multiple wives.

My personal challenge to you is to search through your Bibles at home, research the Scripture references given in the Hebrew and Greek, and find anything that substantiates a condemnation of polygyny. Go through the Torah of Moses. Search the book of Proverbs. Read through the Prophets. Examine the Messianic Scriptures carefully. Check and recheck several times just to be sure. There is no verse of Scripture anywhere in the Bible that ever condemns polygyny as sin, or a work of the flesh, or represents it as being discontinued on account of the New Covenant.

Understanding polygyny and accepting it as a valid and Biblical form of marriage today is very crucial, because it brings healing and knowledge to those who have found themselves divorced by a spouse, as well as giving understanding and wisdom to missionaries who preach the gospel to polygynous families in other countries. How many marriages in other lands have been destroyed because we in the West with our Western culture and arrogant feeling of superiority have gone and demanded that others must divorce all but one wife to be saved?

Please understand my heart in this matter. At the time I am writing this article, I am a 38-year-old man, happily married to a wonderful 27-year-old Godly woman for the past 7 years. She has taught me, by her own example, more about living a Messiah-centered life than I learned in my first 30 years. When I first discovered this information regarding polygyny in Scripture, I was very much against it and needed to ask Yahweh to touch my heart and get my thinking lined up with His. Over time, I began to discern the spiritual implications of polygyny related to the body of Messiah, and of marriage in general. Today I find myself reading Scriptures with a newfound clarity, as though a veil of fog had been lifted from my eyes. If nothing else, I praise Yahweh for giving me the wisdom to understand His Word better.

Although my wife and I have discussed the polygyny matter amongst ourselves and she wouldn't object to such a union, I nevertheless believe it would take an exceptional man and exceptional women to make a polygynous marriage work properly in today's world. It certainly is not for most people with a Western-culture upbringing. Even if I can't see myself in that role, that doesn't mean I can condemn other believers who want to pursue a polygynous marriage for themselves.

No matter how much you may have difficulty in accepting this principle, I urge you to submit to the Word of Elohim alone as the final authority, NOT the teachings of man.
 
Mary, don't presume you will be judged by us for your views. This is obviously a very sensitive issue. I agree entirely that this is a matter for the individual to do what they are fully convinced in their own mind is correct. Plenty of us will be fully convinced that female sexual contact is incorrect - but as the only passage in the entire Bible that may speak to this issue (Romans 1) is ambiguous and can be interpreted a number of ways, there is certainly plenty of flexibility there for alternative views to be held on this issue. We cannot condemn what God does not condemn.

I think you are confusing a couple of issues here - female sexual contact, and the nature of marriage.

The Bible is very clear that marriage is between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:24). However the Bible also makes it abundantly clear that a man can have more than one wife. Although the women are not married to each other, the Bible also does not say much about the nature of the relationship of those wives to each other, so different views are held on this issue.

Don't expect universal support here, but also don't expect complete condemnation. You are clearly dealing with a lot of strong emotions at present, and I think you could benefit enormously from discussing all the issues going through your mind with the women in this forum. I would highly recommend the Tuesday night ladies chat. Not that I've ever taken part myself, but I've met a number of the women in person, and my wife says the chat is valuable!
 
As Samuel stated, it seems the two arguments are being thrown in together, one in which most everyone agrees and then another in which we vary greatly in our beliefs. Let's be sure to address the issues individually, and not suppose anything that is not written to be backhanded comments or judgment. Regarding marriage, God's Word has been abundantly clear, as the Bible speaks of men and names those women his wives. Commands exist which prescribe polygyny in some cases, yet every marriage is between one man and one woman, no matter how many of those relationships a man has. Think of Christ and the church, one man and one bride. Yet, this collective term, while singular, is applied in one Head with many members (one body) and one Bridegroom with many espoused virgins, yet one Bride. One universal church with individual local expressions in every city. These all speak singularly to some extent, but allow for or even imply or demand multiple parties involved. Most of us know about and agree with these principles, so let us leave that part of the discussion and head back to the other.... within very limited boundaries of which I may be overruled also.

While a man having sex with two wives at once is not expressly forbidden, it is also not commanded. Thus, we are left with the quandary about what to do in such situations where the Bible seems silent, yet we hold that the Bible is not written to scholars, but that the Holy Spirit indwelt Christian will be able to know and obey God's will without the intellect of a college professor.

While we cannot expressly condemn some things, we also may not be wise to prescribe them nor agree to them wholeheartedly. When in doubt I personally don't think it is wise to claim the "God told me to do..." card, as it is akin to a parent saying "because I said so" and leaves no room for counsel and often is pride and stubbornness. That is not always the case, but everyone would be wise to remind themselves that you are here on this forum because we are not terribly judgmental folks and are speaking in love and compassion even if we disagree. Don't jump to conclusions that folks are judging you, and don't suppose that everyone who asks difficult questions even disagrees with you.

I have personally seen people deceived into outright sin, rejecting and re-interpreting God's Word for their own gain, lying expressly to family and friends for years(one need not tell all they know, and may do well to avoid answering some things), and a dozen other things all based on this arbitrary argument that God spoke to them personally. One way we come into trouble is to say that God approves of or commands individuals to do anything that the Scriptures do not expressly command. My motive here is not judgmental nor heavy handed, but as I would ask myself these questions on any ambiguous Biblical issue, it might be well to consider the following:

1. While I know that God's Word accept polygyny as a righteous form of marriage, I know it is not commanded in my own case from God's Word. Have I worked through the process the same way I would if it were my mother, friend, or other person considering this specific situation?

2. As marriage is a picture/type of Christ and the Church, is the earthly expression of the relationship I am considering in all ways glorifying and exemplary of this picture of Christ as Bridegroom and the Church as the Bride?

3. Even if there is no express condemnation of this thing I feel led/called to do, is such going to further the Kingdom of God and in agreement with the right dividing of the word of truth?

4. Am I being selfish in my decision?

5. If I feel conflicted about this decision, would it be wise to act now or wait until God gives confirmation? While not obeying the will of men, will I prayerfully consider the questions and recommendations of those who accept God's truth (even if it is unpopular) if they are indeed godly and wise people?

6. (this one is always hard for me) Am I making a martyr of myself or pursuing a controversial thing due to pride in my own life?

I was once counselled against a certain doctrinal position primarily based on my being well-known to hold controversial doctrines. In fact, I have an anonymous blog (won't tell you where to find it) that is focused on doctrines that most Christians would reject but that I believe are true. Plural marriage is not even on that list, but let's just say that I like to argue. :o

Regarding the specific topic at hand, that of sexual contact between women, along with a few other issues, Biblical Families has a policy of not allowing discussions of certain issues to be on public forums. Folks are welcome to discuss those issues via private message, personal email, etc. if they like, but we are going to curb this public discussion quickly. All moderators, please err on the side of caution in moderating this thread. Thank you.
 
Cow fam said:
5. If I feel conflicted about this decision, would it be wise to act now or wait until God gives confirmation? While not obeying the will of men, will I prayerfully consider the questions and recommendations of those who accept God's truth (even if it is unpopular) if they are indeed godly and wise people?
This is extremely good advice. It strikes me Mary that you are not emotionally comfortable with the views you are coming to hold. I wouldn't rush into anything until you have come to a place where you are not only willing to follow purely through obedience, but actually have peace in your heart about the rightness of the course you believe God is leading you to pursue. If you find it upsetting, that is a good reason to pause and spend time in prayer and Biblical discussion with others, until you come to the point where you both understand where God is leading you and have peace about it.

Getting to that point might mean simply becoming at peace with the course you currently believe is right, or it could mean changing your understanding of that course until it is something you are able to be more at peace with - and most likely it will be a combination of both. Polygyny is complicated enough for people who are comfortable with it, and you do not appear comfortable with it but rather upset and emotional that God would send you down a path which you dislike. If He truly wants you to do this, He can make you comfortable with it.
 
Hello all,

I appreciate all of your concerns for me and my beliefs and my well-being and I hope that this post brings you a little closer to seeing or even just acknowledging where I am coming from. But before reading this post, or after, I would entreat you to please take a moment and go re-read my first 3 posts as I believe several of you responded to me without reading them fully. (Oh, and Isabella - I am not a lesbian, nor do I have lesbian tendencies or leanings. At all.)

I think the main thing I would like to address at this time is what marriage is. I'm going to "pick" on ChrisM because he is an easy target since he put the ideas in a succinct form. Thank you, ChrisM.

ChrisM said:
Commands exist which prescribe polygyny in some cases, yet every marriage is between one man and one woman, no matter how many of those relationships a man has.

I think it would be good to start here. This is a misunderstanding that is leading to many subsequent misunderstandings.

Nowhere in Scripture does it say that "every marriage is between one man and one woman". Nowhere. I would love to find it, because this would uphold monogamy, but we know the Bible doesn't teach monogamy only, it teaches that each person must choose whether singleness, monogamy, or polygyny is right for them.

Cow fam said:
Think of Christ and the church, one man and one bride. Yet, this collective term, while singular, is applied in one Head with many members (one body) and one Bridegroom with many espoused virgins, yet one Bride. One universal church with individual local expressions in every city. These all speak singularly to some extent, but allow for or even imply or demand multiple parties involved.

Here you actually seem to be upholding what I believe the Scriptures teach. See, the word "church" is nowhere in the original language, it was made up. It's what they call an "ecclesiastical term" and it has no meaning beyond the translations of the Scriptures you find it in. The literal meaning of the Greek word (ekklesia) behind "church" is congregation, synagogue, assembly, etc. Sure, you can have one assembly, but it is still plural because you can't have an assembly of one since that would be an individual. So, the church-which is the bride-is of necessity made up of many people, it is plural. And even if you look at it the way you wrote it, "one man and one bride", the bride you refer to is understood as a plurality of people. I agree with what you said about how the terms you spoke of, "allow for or even imply or demand multiple parties involved." So you prove my point. If not, you contradict yourself.

Just look at how God uses his covenant to represent marriage. How many New Covenants did Jesus die to bring to us? One. Yet, it is each individual's choice to enter that ONE covenant (or not) that Jesus is offering to everyone. There isn't a separate covenant between each person and God. They can enter the one covenant or not. They join the ones who are already there in the covenant. If one of us breaks the covenant we have with God, does that nullify the entire covenant for everyone? No. The same way Jesus is the head (groom) of the collection of believers in the New Covenant (bride), so is the husband with his wife/wives. Each man has one marriage covenant to offer to whomever he chooses. If a wife breaks the covenant her husband has with her, she breaks it between her husband and herself, not the other wives, the same as between the believer and God in the New Covenant, yet there is still one covenant (one marriage covenant-it belongs to the husband).

This is what I am saying. We have to see God's example of marriage as it truly is. It is a polygynous marriage covenant just like the New Covenant.

Now, this is my understanding of marriage and I believe the Scriptures uphold this view. The Scriptures even mention a Jew and a Gentile bride in the New Covenant. So, I guess God is giving us believers a very good example of acceptable polygyny.

Thank you for reading.
Hadassah

P.S. Since God doesn't command specific "living arrangements" they are to be left up to each husband to the benefit of his wives. (Although, God HAS commanded my husband specifically.)
 
Very well argued Hadassah! Ultimately, I think we're splitting hairs about terminology here. There are places in the Bible which clearly illustrate marriage as being the union of two (e.g. Matthew 19:5-6), with the Bible clearly allowing multiple wives. Then there is the Bride in Revelation who is a group of people. However even in this second case, as you correctly state, all the relationships are between the individual brides and the husband - they individually join Him or are separated from Him, and the action of any individual does not affect the others. At the end of the day, this is describing exactly the same thing using slightly different terms.

I think we agree that a patriarchal polygynous family involves (without using the word "marriage"):
- One man.
- Women who are bound in individual relationships to that man.
- The women are not bound to each other, but to the man, and their relationships to the man can start and end independently of each other.

Please read the next bit of this post from the perspective of somebody on the outside, who has not heard from God what you believe you have heard, hearing from you for the first time.

The caution that most of us are applying here is not so much about the definition of the word "marriage", but around your belief that God is calling you to form a symbolic relationship that will be a "new covenant" between Jew and Gentile. This underlying concern has been expressed in questioning your understanding of the nature of marriage. This whole "new covenant" thing sounds like the sort of justification people make to start cults etc, hence our strong caution here. There are so many nutters who happen to be polygynous that "God told me to do this thing that sounds a bit strange" is a red flag to most readers here, and we would advise extreme caution. Ensure you are absolutely clear about what you are hearing. Ensure it is truly God speaking, and test every detail against the scriptures.

As you post further, it becomes clear that you are testing this against scripture, and do understand scripture on polygynous marriage very well. This is extremely encouraging. But I've still got a bad feeling about this "new covenant" aspect of what you are following. How do you see this fitting into scripture, Christian theology, and our relationship with Christ?

I ask this question to help, not to thrust you away.
 
Thank you for clarifying on the sexuality?

And also to expand on what Samuel is saying, and referencing another thread, regarding practical issues, how might this new covenant work in a practical sense? Does this mean you will legally divorce your husband because this is a new union that is being created? So you will all be coming together anew?
If a new legal union needs to be created for tax reasons, can the new wife be that legal wife since it is only a legal issue?
If something were to happen to your husband, will you wives be bound together forever since you are joined so if you seek another husband you will consider yourselves a package deal? What if one man is attracted to you and not your sisterwife? You care for him but he says he does not want to marry her, would you reject him?

Thank you in advance,

B
 
Thank you, FollowingHim. I'm sorry you think we are splitting hairs, but there is one aspect I guess I didn't explain thoroughly enough. Let me address it for a moment.

FollowingHim said:
I think we agree that a patriarchal polygynous family involves (without using the word "marriage"):
- One man.
- Women who are bound in individual relationships to that man.
- The women are not bound to each other, but to the man, and their relationships to the man can start and end independently of each other.

I have one bone to pick in this. You may think I am being overly specific, but I feel it has an impact on other understandings. If someone wants to have more than one wife and have each of them non-interacting by having them in different houses that are away from each other and where they really don't interact, I guess that is their business. But MY OPINION is that in doing that it really doesn't seem to fulfill the needs of each of the wives as well as their children. Depending on how many wives a man has, the time that each wife gets with him as well as the time her children have with their father is so much more reduced than the same members in a monogamous family would experience. If you have all of his family together in one house, it seems more like a family, and everyone has pretty much the same access to the father. The children have his influence and the wives can interact with him on a continual basis. We already complain about the amount of influence the world has on our families, why reduce the ratio of the father's influence?

Now, Biblically, what relation does one person in the New Covenant have to other people who are in the same covenant (i.e. one man's wives to one another)? Are they totally separate from each other and the only thing they have in common is the same betrothed? I don't think this is what the Scriptures teach.

Joh_13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

Joh_15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

There are to be NO DIVISIONS in the body.

John 17:21-23 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

1Co_12:25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.

Gal_5:13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Eph_5:21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

1Pe_5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

I believe that in these verses and others in the New Covenant we are taught that no one individual is autonomous. We are encouraged to be one. We (wives) are to submit to one another as equals. This is what God is prescribing for my family. We still have a head, our husband, but we are to be one with him and each other. God showed me a picture of this on a spiritual level and it was beautiful.

I understand the cautions you mentioned you feel. But we have to realize and admit that a caution doesn't make something wrong. It may simply be that we haven't considered something in that way yet with a truly open mind to see how it could be a benefit or even good (not that everyone has to do things the way God has TOLD my husband to do it). Also, I would think a pro-polygynous person would have to agree that those outside poly usually think it is wrong right off the bat and we know that isn't the case. In fact, we also can see that just because something is misused; i.e. poly, guns, bats (kill more ppl yearly than guns), monogamy, etc. doesn't mean that that particular thing is wrong in and of itself. It is how we use it that makes it bad, as well as our intentions.


Isabella, please see Romans 11 regarding how God grafted the gentiles into the Jewish root. He, from the two have made one new man with Jesus as the head. See Eph 2.14-15 where it teaches how Jesus has united the Gentiles with the Jews to be "one new man" in Messiah. This is the motif God is causing our marriage to be a parable to. It's quite beautiful.

Blessings, I have to get to work!
Hadassah
 
I think you misunderstand me when you think I am saying that separate marriages = separate households. I am certainly not saying that, more stressing that each marriage is independent in that they exist independently of each other.

I don't have a problem with people wanting separate households, but just like you I feel that for me that would be counterproductive. I would wish to have one large household, where the wives can cooperate and share their loads. From my first wife's perspective for instance, a second wife to help in the one household should theoretically make life easier, while having me away half the time and having to run the same household herself still would simply make life a lot harder. And I'd prefer to see all my kids every day.

That's what I want. Practical reality can differ, separate households can ease tensions between wives where they exist for instance. There are a range of living arrangements in the members of this forum, and the one family can change their living arrangements over time as well.

Remember the church is to love each another as one, as you have referenced, even though the majority of us do not live in the same house.

You have shown well from scripture that the wives should cooperate as one, thankyou. I'd be keen to hear the take of some of the wives here on the verses shown, they are good food for thought.

Still however, what do you mean by a "new covenant"?
 
Hadassah said:
Isabella, please see Romans 11 regarding how God grafted the gentiles into the Jewish root. He, from the two have made one new man with Jesus as the head. See Eph 2.14-15 where it teaches how Jesus has united the Gentiles with the Jews to be "one new man" in Messiah. This is the motif God is causing our marriage to be a parable to. It's quite beautiful.

Blessings, I have to get to work!
Hadassah


I have no idea what that means to be honest. I would much rather it if you answered the question I asked you please?

B
 
Isabella, I'm sorry I somehow got confused and answered the wrong question. Let me try again.

Isabella said:
And also to expand on what Samuel is saying, and referencing another thread, regarding practical issues, how might this new covenant work in a practical sense? Does this mean you will legally divorce your husband because this is a new union that is being created? So you will all be coming together anew?
If a new legal union needs to be created for tax reasons, can the new wife be that legal wife since it is only a legal issue?
If something were to happen to your husband, will you wives be bound together forever since you are joined so if you seek another husband you will consider yourselves a package deal? What if one man is attracted to you and not your sisterwife? You care for him but he says he does not want to marry her, would you reject him?

We are not positive yet how it will all be worked out, God usually reveals a little here and a little there. Our best understanding at this time is that we will have to be divorced legally and then have the new marriage between the 3 of us. Meaning my dh will bring both of us into his new marriage covenant at the same time. We don't care about "tax reasons" or "legal issue(s)" and aren't sure at this time how God will have us handle this. Some type of legal granting of rights between us probably. DH says he doesn't want one wife to be over the other in any way, we are to be equals, and because of this, neither will become a "legal" wife.

If something were to happen to my dh, it would be the same as in the Bible. We would be free to go our ways and each find another husband if that is what we what. We are joining the marriage covenant of our husband, so there would be no more marriage covenant when he dies, just like the Bible teaches (Rom 7). Who knows, we may desire to remain in the same house until one of us finds a husband or something, I don't know, we may not want to split up our children who are siblings until one of us finds a husband. This would be wise financially. Your last question really has no bearing, since we wouldn't be bound as wives to each other after the covenant is broken.

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Blessings,
Hadassah
 
Yes it does, thank you. I do not have any particular issues with these plans and you are, of course free to choose what you wish to do with your legal marriage. My only problem remains with this bed sharing front, as intimacy is such a private and individual thing, I think making it some sort of rule, before the new wife even gets an input is unwise, I have no doubt it would be something you would discuss with this potential wife, but what if after the marriage happens she realises that she feels her intimate time with your shared husband is inhibited and uncomfortable with you in the bed (I find it hard to imagine any woman being comfortable with it really, it sounds much more like something a husband would suggest) and decides that separate sleeping quarters would be best. Would you accept that, since she is an equal in every way, she does have the right to make decisions on her account?

B
 
Isabella said:
My only problem remains with this bed sharing front, as intimacy is such a private and individual thing, I think making it some sort of rule, before the new wife even gets an input is unwise, I have no doubt it would be something you would discuss with this potential wife, but what if after the marriage happens she realises that she feels her intimate time with your shared husband is inhibited and uncomfortable with you in the bed (I find it hard to imagine any woman being comfortable with it really, it sounds much more like something a husband would suggest) and decides that separate sleeping quarters would be best. Would you accept that, since she is an equal in every way, she does have the right to make decisions on her account?


Isabella, let me assure you that neither my dh nor I asked for nor wanted it this way. Actually my dh and I were planning on separate rooms for each of us. But, God has commanded us to do it this way. God has chosen the other lady as well, we did not. God knows what each of us will be able to handle. He is a good God and he would not pick someone who couldn't handle it. I never said everyone else has to do as we are being told to. Relax. We will discuss it with her, but in the light of this is how God has told us we have to do it. She will be an equal to me, but our husband will have the final say, as he is the "head" of the house. Everything will be handled with love and compassion for one another's feelings.

You sound like it is a personal affront. It is not. You don't have to do it this way, we do. Unless God tells you otherwise. Also, I don't care for the way you automatically assume the worst of me or my husband. You remind me of the judgmentalism of the monogamous about something they are automatically afraid of when it come to polygyny. Did you have this same reaction to polygyny at first and think that whoever actually wanted it was perverted in some way or out to get something from ulterior motives?

What we are doing, this marriage, is not carnally driven. We are both VERY satisfied in our marriage and each fulfills the needs of the other, we are best friends. We are not doing this to save our marriage, improve it, try something new, have a fling, get some excitement, entertainment, or anything else. Look, we are simply serving God and this is how he has - so far - told us to do things. You cannot fault us for this. We cannot fault you for not desiring everything he has told us to do. It is your choice. We also have a choice, though the alternative to doing as he has instructed is pretty much akin to being swallowed by a whale.

Blessings,
Hadassah
 
Hadassah said:
Isabella, let me assure you that neither my dh nor I asked for nor wanted it this way. Actually my dh and I were planning on separate rooms for each of us. But, God has commanded us to do it this way. God has chosen the other lady as well, we did not. God knows what each of us will be able to handle. He is a good God and he would not pick someone who couldn't handle it. I never said everyone else has to do as we are being told to. Relax. We will discuss it with her, but in the light of this is how God has told us we have to do it. She will be an equal to me, but our husband will have the final say, as he is the "head" of the house. Everything will be handled with love and compassion for one another's feelings.

I understand you believe that, however, my simple question is 'what if she does not want it?' She may indeed be able to handle it but simply says no. What would you say to that?
You sound like it is a personal affront. It is not.

I certainly do not think it is a personal affront, I feel for you, truly I do because I think you are mistaken, but that is not my problem, it is yours.

You don't have to do it this way, we do. Unless God tells you otherwise. Also, I don't care for the way you automatically assume the worst of me or my husband. You remind me of the judgmentalism of the monogamous about something they are automatically afraid of when it come to polygyny. Did you have this same reaction to polygyny at first and think that whoever actually wanted it was perverted in some way or out to get something from ulterior motives?

I am sorry but this is defensive nonsense, anyone who has read my posts knows I am a staunch supporter of Polygamy and if you want to know when I DO feel personally affronted, it is when people make sweeping comments about women who seek Polygamy, especially single women whom Monogamists assume are sad, ugly, lonely, fat, insecure and lacking in personal ambition, they 'have to be' because otherwise they would not be stupid enough to allow themselves to be put in such a powerless position, like, for example, being pressured to sleep in the same bed as her sisterwife because God said so.

B
 
My pet peeve is the "equal" word.

"equal" means my son has to join ballet class and wear a pink tutu because it isn't fair that my daughter gets to participate and he doesn't. Similarly, I should make my daughter go out in the back yard and find the slimiest frog to play with because for some unknown reason that is something boys (or at least my boy) seems to like doing!

I know what you mean by "equal", but really do not get so hung up on the word, because you will drive yourselves crazy and paint yourselves into a corner trying to make sure everyone is treated the same at all times. You need to focus on making sure everyone gets their unique and individual needs met with equal importance.

Wives are not equal people. If they were identical there would be no need for the 2nd or subsequent wives. They each bring their own strengths and weaknesses to the table and need to be treated accordingly.
 
Isabella said:
I certainly do not think it is a personal affront, I feel for you, truly I do because I think you are mistaken, but that is not my problem, it is yours.

Isabella, Yes, I agree with you, and this is why we need God's help to get through this. Thank you.



eternitee said:
You need to focus on making sure everyone gets their unique and individual needs met with equal importance.

Eternitee, I agree with you. You just said it better than I did. Thank you.
 
eternitee said:
My pet peeve is the "equal" word.

It reminds of the Islamic thing to, like if one wife gets a new car, all wives get a new car because they must all be equal. What if I don't want a new car? What if I am find with my old car but I need a new washing machine?

B
 
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