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Helpmeet - Ruprecht Wachter

Example of Sarah said:
That's actually not an interpretation at all. It's a verbatim quote.
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Well, if you want to make that argument... assuming KJV, a direct quote of a translation 1600+ years removed from the extant text (which almost certainly isn't the original source), translated by committee, which is also wholly lacking in cultural context. Sure.
 
IndianaLife said:
Well, if you want to make that argument... assuming KJV, a direct quote of a translation 1600+ years removed from the extant text (which almost certainly isn't the original source), translated by committee, which is also wholly lacking in cultural context. Sure.
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She’s basing the reference in the Greek, not the KJV.
 
IndianaLife said:
Well, if you want to make that argument... assuming KJV, a direct quote of a translation 1600+ years removed from the extant text (which almost certainly isn't the original source), translated by committee, which is also wholly lacking in cultural context. Sure.
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Although I think long term lease is a better description than “ownership”. The man has to return the woman to her true owner and he will get charged for excessive wear and tear!
 
What kind of church do you go to IndianaLife?
 
IndianaLife said:
Well, if you want to make that argument... assuming KJV, a direct quote of a translation 1600+ years removed from the extant text (which almost certainly isn't the original source), translated by committee, which is also wholly lacking in cultural context. Sure.
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I'm not using the KJV. I'm chiding you for using an English translation MORE removed than the KJV. I specifically stated on multiple occasions that I was referring to the original Hebrew (and yes, we most assuredly do have that; look up the Dead Sea Scrolls for starters).

Do you read what you're replying to, or just skim for keywords and answer what you think you heard?
Asking because on multiple occasions you've asked questions that were already answered.
 
Well, there’s a lot of unscriptural beliefs in the mormon church. Doesn’t surprise me tbh.
 
Con8 said:
I joked with some of my tenants that if they call me Mi'lord I would lower their rent by 10%....I had no takers.
Not relevant to the discussion, my apologies. But it gave me a funny memory.
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I would take discount. I also get salute.
 
IndianaLife said:
There's a thread on here where someone, actually several, flat out stated women shouldn't even have the right to vote,
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There is good correlation between giving women right to vote and creation of welfare state which has destroyed family and increased taxes.


IndianaLife said:
and another advocated using physical violence in the form of spanking to discipline their wives;
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Yes, me. First, you can spank for fun too. ❤♥️

Secondly, you obviously aren't familiar with power exchange relationship. Or taken-in-hand relationship. Please don't speak evil about my kink. Open-mind is virtue.

Nobody is advising wife beating. All can be done voluntary and with care.

IndianaLife said:
none of this is consistent with my understanding of scripture or what my Church teaches nor is "Women reading this often recoil and say "you make it sound as though my husband owns me."
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I wonder how more patriarchal relationship types are more wrong. Expectations are opposite.

IndianaLife said:
Well, plot twist: he does."
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Correct.

Here is joke from Croatia for you.

Woman starts complaining to her man that she is being treated as property. Him: public or private?
 
Example of Sarah said:
Again, this is because Scripture does make precisely this declaration, more than two dozen times.
Are you aware there was no Hebrew word for "husband?" In nearly every instance in the Old Testament, the word that becomes "husband" under King James's guidance was originally Baal, which meant "Master." It's the same word used to refer to the owner of goods in Deuteronomic property dispute laws. Quite literally every time you see the word "husband" in an English translation you are reading what was yet another declaration of a man's ownership over his wife in the original language of Scripture.
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Ba'al was a pagan God. Why would the (Christian) God want a christian wife to call her christian husband after the (pagan) God of fertility and weather? That makes zero sense.

Also keep in mind Hosea. "
“you will call me ‘my husband’; you will no longer call me ‘my master. I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;"

Now this was God talking about his relationship with Israel. Israel was to call God husband not Master like the old God. We can therefore conclude with elegance that husband does not equal master.
 
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Maia said:
Ba'al was a pagan God. Why would the (Christian) God want a christian wife to call her christian husband after the (pagan) God of fertility and weather? That makes zero sense.

Also keep in mind Hosea. "
“you will call me ‘my husband’; you will no longer call me ‘my master. I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;"

Now this was God talking about his relationship with Israel. Israel was to call God husband not Master like the old God. We can therefore conclude with elegance that husband does not equal master.
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What verse is that in Hosea?
 
Maia said:
Ba'al was a pagan God. Why would the (Christian) God want a christian wife to call her christian husband after the (pagan) God of fertility and weather? That makes zero sense.

Also keep in mind Hosea. "
“you will call me ‘my husband’; you will no longer call me ‘my master. I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;"

Now this was God talking about his relationship with Israel. Israel was to call God husband not Master like the old God. We can therefore conclude with elegance that husband does not equal master.
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Interesting verse, the word “husband” per the usual is just “man”. There is no word for husband in the Greek or Hebrew.
 
NickF said:
Well, there’s a lot of unscriptural beliefs in the mormon church. Doesn’t surprise me tbh.
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LDS theology has been watered down a lot in the last, say 50 years. My parents are mormon....I grew up in it. It is not even a shadow now of what it was. All things controversial were abandoned. It is like most other denominations at this point....a social club where everyone makes each other feel good about how much "their church" has right.
I believe there are sincere people in most every church.. ..but there are sincere believers too that don't "go to church" too.
 
Understood and definitely agreed. Some of the most godly people I’ve ever met were LDS. Their theology definitely produces some of the most outwardly wonderful people.

But like all “churches” these days… full of traditions of men taught as doctrines.
 
NickF said:
@Maia you might be interested to watch this video. Addresses your misconception about the word ba’al.

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In addition to this video, Maia, I would also recommend you pick up a copy of K. Owen White's "Studies in Hosea." How the term "Ba'al" went from a Hebrew word meaning "Master" to the shorthand for a Babylonian god (Merodach to be specific) is found on pages 41-43. The worshippers of Merodach feared that they would invite his wrath by using his name so they simply called him "the Master (or, in their language, "Ba'al")," eerily similar to the way modern Christians refer to Yahuwah only as "the Lord." But it was a Hebrew word meaning "Master."
And I reiterate, in quite literally every surviving text of the original language, absolutely every word that is translated as "husband" in any English translation, was "Ba'al," meaning "Master," in the original text.
 
Example of Sarah said:
In addition to this video, Maia, I would also recommend you pick up a copy of K. Owen White's "Studies in Hosea." How the term "Ba'al" went from a Hebrew word meaning "Master" to the shorthand for a Babylonian god (Merodach to be specific) is found on pages 41-43. The worshippers of Merodach feared that they would invite his wrath by using his name so they simply called him "the Master (or, in their language, "Ba'al")," eerily similar to the way modern Christians refer to Yahuwah only as "the Lord." But it was a Hebrew word meaning "Master."
And I reiterate, in quite literally every surviving text of the original language, absolutely every word that is translated as "husband" in any English translation, was "Ba'al," meaning "Master," in the original text.
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I find it curious that some actively strive to seek out information as to why they should be submissive. I wonder if Memefan (I am sure he will be chiming in soon) is correct that some people actually enjoy the submissive role.

Here is my issue. It is my experience that many males assume with a certain audaciousness that scripture gives them the right to command, failing to understand that leadership requires certain skills, that 90% of people do not have.
 
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