How do you know you belong in the 10 Percent?

[FollowingHim]

If this is mainly about helping your wife understand and deal with this emotionally, is she talking to the ladies here? Does she go on the Tuesday night ladies chat? Send her there with her questions and concerns and they'll help her out far better than you or we ever could.

 

[andrew]

I agree, I am probably over thinking this whole thing, but the only one in my situation that is really having to do 'mental' work here, is my wife, and I am trying to do what I can to make absolutely sure that what she is trying to be obedient to is God's Will and not some other way of thinking.

Sounds good so far!

But, am I correct in understanding your statement about the messenger could only be considered 'called' if he has a message to deliver? My understanding of that would mean that one is only considered 'called' to be in a plural marriage if they are actually in a plural marriage? Is that correct?

Almost. You can 'consider' yourself or someone else just about anything (and boy, people do...), but you know when you're doing it. You could get an advance notice of something God has for you (God told Abraham he would have a son, God called Moses to lead his people out of Egypt, &c.) that is so dramatic that you're pretty sure it's God, and then you wait for it to be fulfilled, or wait for further instructions, but so far you haven't referenced any burning bushes, angels, or even dreams or visions, and the fact that we're having this conversation indicates that there haven't been any such encounters. So far all I'm hearing is that you've come to understand that the western church culture is fundamentally wrong about the basics of male/female relationships.

So if you're trying to figure out if you're called to be polygamous, then you're not, at least not yet, because if you were you would know it. And if you're trying to figure out whether some day you may be called to be polygamous, I'm suggesting that the way you're going to experience that call is to be told to add a particular woman to your particular family. God didn't tell Moses he was called to be a leader and a worker of miracles and then sit back and let him sort out what he was supposed to do next. He gave Moses specific messages for Pharaoh and the elders of Israel and told him to be on his way. Does that help?

Also, saying that "All you've uncovered so far, and all you really need to uncover, is that should you find such a woman, the fact you are already married would not biblically prohibit her from joining your family in a lifelong covenant relationship.", would be nice if that were all but at this point, trying to figure out HOW another women would fit BEFORE she is even here is what seems to be going on here. And, if I can figure out that there is not really going to be one then I could take the pressure off my wife. Like I said, she is the one doing the heavy emotional lifting right now and I would like to make it easier for her and if I can figure out that we were only shown patriarchy as a biblical family structure and nothing more then I guess maybe at some point if a women did show up we would be ready to face those hurdles when they come.

Yes and no. There is certainly a difference between knowing and doing, and to the extent you are or more importantly she is stressing about stuff that hasn't happened yet and isn't even on the radar, then yes, relax, let God be God, remember that "all things work together for good" and "sufficient for the day is the trouble thereof" and so forth, and be at peace.

On the other hand, I know or know of a fair number of women that have had a reaction along the lines of "well, that may be okay with God but it's not happening in my house". I think that's missing the point (and that's the nicest way I can put that). A true understanding of what the bible teaches about marriage and family should have an effect on just about any modern marriage, and one way you would know it's having its intended effect is that fear of adding another woman should become less of a concern.

So there is a particular application, and there may be some stress, but at this point it's not about adding another woman, and whether it ever will be can be taken up mañana. What is real at this point, though, and very much "today's trouble", is whatever light is being thrown on your existing relationship with your present wife. To whatever extent there's work to be done to bring that relationship into conformity with God's word to you, then you can focus on doing that work.

Maybe what you are saying is that understanding plural marriage is all that is required now, if it is God's Will that another women would be added at some point in the future then He will provide the strength (for my wife) as needed.

Bingo! (With a proviso that the more thoroughly you 'tune up' your relationship now in light of new truth, the less strength will be needed later.)

But, that still leaves open the amount of effort in 'searching' that one is suppose to do in this state.

Yeah, and my two cents is you should keep that close to zero. "When the student is ready the teacher appears." When you and your wife have really assimilated this new/old truth into your relationship, and if you have been focused on doing kingdom work in the meantime, then you won't have to search very far or for very long.

 

[mystic]

When andrew said, "You're a messenger when you are being sent out with messages", it reminded me of the time a friend accompanied me to an equipment rental shop as I returned an item called a tamper. My father's hired man had used it after repairing a drainage pipe in the yard.

This was the first time I'd seen or heard of a tamper (or tamp), which for the home user is basically a heavy metal plate, perhaps 10 or 12 inches square, with a long handle arising from its center. When you have some freshly disturbed earth and can't wait for it to settle, you drop one of these on it repeatedly.

This particular tamp could've been made in any local fabrication shop: Instead of wood, its handle was a length of heavy metal pipe, and the part into which it was screwed had been welded onto the plate instead of it all being forged as one. Being accustomed to mass-produced tools sold in hardware stores and the like, I found this unfamiliar object both amusing and impressive.

My friend was less impressed. "But how do you know it's a real tamper?" she asked. "How do you know they didn't just attach a square piece of metal to a pole and tell you it's a tamper?"

"That's what a tamper is," I said, feeling confident of this despite never having seen one before. "It tamps dirt, so it's a tamper." She remained unconvinced. I didn't know what else to say.

 

[FollowingHim]

Mystic, and that makes me think:

"Yes, they're living together, even have three kids together, but how do you know it's a REAL marriage? How do you know they didn't just move in together and TELL you they are married?"

So many people in the church are rather confused about that point. I'm quite off topic now though!

 

[mystic]

The spot in need of tamping was in front of a picturesque Victorian bed-and-breakfast near the center of a thriving town.

Which, come to think of it, might've made a 4x4 a lot of fun.

Samuel, that's an apt comparison. Whether you've made your own tool, your own marriage, or your own entry into the culture of polygamy, the thing can seem fake to one who expects an institutional product.

 

[NetWatchR]

"Yes, they're living together, even have three kids together, but how do you know it's a REAL marriage? How do you know they didn't just move in together and TELL you they are married?"

So many people in the church are rather confused about that point...

...Samuel, that's an apt comparison. Whether you've made your own tool, your own marriage, or your own entry into the culture of polygamy, the thing can seem fake to one who expects an institutional product.

It's nuggets like this, that, when put together, make all the sense in the world.

Ciao.

 

[FollowingHim]

I was thinking along those lines because of this recent news article about a woman who has had her church membership revoked for being in a de-facto relationship. She was told "marry him, leave him, or lose your membership". Very sad and completely twisted thinking. She IS married - but doesn't recognise that she is as her husband doesn't think he's ready to sign on the dotted line.

She is not sinning. If she left him she would be sinning, and the fact that they don't recognise the relationship as marriage increases the likelihood of that happening. The church SHOULD be saying "you're married. If you leave him we'll consider that divorce". Instead they tell her "get a worthless piece of government paperwork, sin by divorcing him, or lose our worthless piece of church paperwork". What a massive fuss over nothing, turning people off the church for no reason at all and promoting sin.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9986758 ... him-church

 

[pebble]

I'd be happy to leave any church for any crap they force on me. But that' just me.

Any church who turns people away from YHWH, well, we already know whose tool they are.

 

[cnystrom]

"It tamps dirt, so it's a tamper." She remained unconvinced. I didn't know what else to say.

LOL!