Honor in this context means value. She is my most valuable possession.
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How to love your wife (like Christ loves the church)
- Thread starter Slumberfreeze
- Start date
Honor in this context means value. She is my most valuable possession.
"Weaker" could be read as "more delicate". For instance, she can't be expected to just cope with stuff that wouldn't bother you, but needs to have a living environment that is easier for her. Bachelor pad vs home... Providing a comfortable home takes more work, but is giving her honour as the weaker vessel.
Thank you guys. That is actually a phrase that I have been struggling to understand in practical application. Excellent points!
Here’s a consideration to your question. Physically weaker and would have a struggle defending herself if necessary against a guy. (Generalization) emotionally weaker in that feelings can get hurt than a guy. Certain words to my wife and daughters will crush them. Say the same words to me and I’ll shrug it off and think what an idiot.
Plus, I don’t want my women to have hides like leather.
I've wondered that often.
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Guest
What if it's not an actual thing but an attitude?
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Guest
The honour part as in, a relationship of honour towards a weaker vessel will over time produce fruit pleasing to God.
OK, I'll take the bait 
We give honor to weaker vessels all the time in our society. We provide parking for the handicap. Parents carry children when they can't walk so far. We give participation trophies those who lose the game and on and on. If a wife is weaker physically, she should be treated not as an equal in that regard. She is probably "weaker" emotionally in some areas (there can be exceptions) and if the man is striving diligently for spiritual things, she will most likely be weaker in insight, and understanding and will. His leadership should take into account her level emotional and spiritual maturity and strengths as well as her physical abilities. His delegation of tasks to her should not overload her abilities. He must carry more of the responsibility and loads of life when she is the weaker. In some areas she probably has strengths he may be weak in and he should be wise enough and willing to allow her to function at her best, keeping a proper overall perspective. He must accept the ultimate responsibility even for the authority he may delegate to her. (he was the delegator)
We give honor to weaker vessels all the time in our society. We provide parking for the handicap. Parents carry children when they can't walk so far. We give participation trophies those who lose the game
and on and on. If a wife is weaker physically, she should be treated not as an equal in that regard. She is probably "weaker" emotionally in some areas (there can be exceptions) and if the man is striving diligently for spiritual things, she will most likely be weaker in insight, and understanding and will. His leadership should take into account her level emotional and spiritual maturity and strengths as well as her physical abilities. His delegation of tasks to her should not overload her abilities. He must carry more of the responsibility and loads of life when she is the weaker. In some areas she probably has strengths he may be weak in and he should be wise enough and willing to allow her to function at her best, keeping a proper overall perspective. He must accept the ultimate responsibility even for the authority he may delegate to her. (he was the delegator)
A quick and dirty definition for vessel is "container". A scholar would crap all over that, but it'll do for now I think.
But in a great house there are not only vessels G4632 of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
I consider that men are strong vessels, say... iron pots and women are like earthen vessels or clay bowls. A great house has vessels of all sorts and we have no lack of analogs in our own kitchens.
I can drop kick and chuck around all my pots and pans, and for the most part I could still use them. I'd have to really try to ruin them. My coffee mugs are not so sturdy.
I treat my mugs with a degree of understanding. I take special care not to drop them, I certainly don't stack them like a heathen would, because they may chip. Indeed I treat them with honor. My mugs have their own place and I prefer them not to be touching each other if at all possible. Especially if I have a mug that I like the design on it or some such. My pots and pans are precariously stacked in nonsensical physics defying ways because it basically doesn't matter what I do with them.
Women to me are just like that. Not as strong, not as tough, not as emotionally resilient, not as readily able to focus on abstract principles. Not as easy for them to hold to the truth in the face of deception, if the garden incident is to be included. And yet, of no less value to their owner. (remember... heirs together) God LIKES His coffee mugs. We pots and pans have our place, and they theirs. We work fantastic when He's cooking. Just put us on a red hot stove for an hour and watch us go. We're terrible for drinking out of. A good coffee mug should be smooth, ya?
Moving away from the metaphor, I should understand and have knowledge that my wife is in many different fashions, inferior. And that knowledge should not lead me to mistreat her or look down upon her, because in these things she is as God designed her to be. The end goal for me isn't to continually attempt to equip her and toughen her up to be able to handle the same things I am able to. There may be some of that here and there, but the bible is clear that our roles and responsibilities and expectations are quite different. If my wife ever succeeds in being as good a man as I am, it is a great shame to me for not being much of a man,
In specific application I think I can only mirror what has already been said. I don't expect her to work like a man. It is enough to work like a woman! It is known she can't just logic her way out of an emotional tempest, like I can. Hormones are wack, yo. I can insist on some standards of behavior, but she needs someone to be gentle with her in a way that is never really afforded to me. If I needed someone to just be understanding for a little while while I had a good cry... well I'd be a pretty thin skinned man. For her, that's fairly normal. Part of giving honor to a weaker vessel is respecting structural tolerance. I can't just keep on her to "fix the issue" whatever it is. Generally speaking the issue isn't even the issue and it's some horrid blend of misapprehension and estrogen that is the issue. I give her space that I would never need and infuriatingly long amounts of time to puzzle her way through things on her own that I promise you I've already explained 10 times. This is not unusual, Jesus does it for His men all the time.
I have a couple examples. Ezekiel was ordered to do a bunch of really uncomfortable things, but balked at eating food cooked over human poop, and God allowed him to cook over cow dung instead. A small comfort, but an actual concession nonetheless.
Better for my purposes is when Elijah had fled Jezebel in 1 Kings 19. Elijah does his best to undo his reputation as a great man of faith by just having a breakdown and asking to die. God feeds him by the hand of an angel a couple of times, and reveals Himself a little more to Elijah, but the man is still inconsolable. Therefore God gives him some final tasks and sends him to go anoint his successor. God does not rebuke Elijah at all in this chapter, but takes it easy on him the whole time. There is a point, I believe, where we need to recognize the breaking point of our women (which is probably well under Elijah's) and make sure not to push them that far. God pities us for we are but men. So too should we pity our women, for they are but women.
But in a great house there are not only vessels G4632 of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
I consider that men are strong vessels, say... iron pots and women are like earthen vessels or clay bowls. A great house has vessels of all sorts and we have no lack of analogs in our own kitchens.
I can drop kick and chuck around all my pots and pans, and for the most part I could still use them. I'd have to really try to ruin them. My coffee mugs are not so sturdy.
I treat my mugs with a degree of understanding. I take special care not to drop them, I certainly don't stack them like a heathen would, because they may chip. Indeed I treat them with honor. My mugs have their own place and I prefer them not to be touching each other if at all possible. Especially if I have a mug that I like the design on it or some such. My pots and pans are precariously stacked in nonsensical physics defying ways because it basically doesn't matter what I do with them.
Women to me are just like that. Not as strong, not as tough, not as emotionally resilient, not as readily able to focus on abstract principles. Not as easy for them to hold to the truth in the face of deception, if the garden incident is to be included. And yet, of no less value to their owner. (remember... heirs together) God LIKES His coffee mugs. We pots and pans have our place, and they theirs. We work fantastic when He's cooking. Just put us on a red hot stove for an hour and watch us go. We're terrible for drinking out of. A good coffee mug should be smooth, ya?
Moving away from the metaphor, I should understand and have knowledge that my wife is in many different fashions, inferior. And that knowledge should not lead me to mistreat her or look down upon her, because in these things she is as God designed her to be. The end goal for me isn't to continually attempt to equip her and toughen her up to be able to handle the same things I am able to. There may be some of that here and there, but the bible is clear that our roles and responsibilities and expectations are quite different. If my wife ever succeeds in being as good a man as I am, it is a great shame to me for not being much of a man,
In specific application I think I can only mirror what has already been said. I don't expect her to work like a man. It is enough to work like a woman! It is known she can't just logic her way out of an emotional tempest, like I can. Hormones are wack, yo. I can insist on some standards of behavior, but she needs someone to be gentle with her in a way that is never really afforded to me. If I needed someone to just be understanding for a little while while I had a good cry... well I'd be a pretty thin skinned man. For her, that's fairly normal. Part of giving honor to a weaker vessel is respecting structural tolerance. I can't just keep on her to "fix the issue" whatever it is. Generally speaking the issue isn't even the issue and it's some horrid blend of misapprehension and estrogen that is the issue. I give her space that I would never need and infuriatingly long amounts of time to puzzle her way through things on her own that I promise you I've already explained 10 times. This is not unusual, Jesus does it for His men all the time.
I have a couple examples. Ezekiel was ordered to do a bunch of really uncomfortable things, but balked at eating food cooked over human poop, and God allowed him to cook over cow dung instead. A small comfort, but an actual concession nonetheless.
Better for my purposes is when Elijah had fled Jezebel in 1 Kings 19. Elijah does his best to undo his reputation as a great man of faith by just having a breakdown and asking to die. God feeds him by the hand of an angel a couple of times, and reveals Himself a little more to Elijah, but the man is still inconsolable. Therefore God gives him some final tasks and sends him to go anoint his successor. God does not rebuke Elijah at all in this chapter, but takes it easy on him the whole time. There is a point, I believe, where we need to recognize the breaking point of our women (which is probably well under Elijah's) and make sure not to push them that far. God pities us for we are but men. So too should we pity our women, for they are but women.
When it comes to loving like Christ, I ascribe to the servant/leader model.
To finish your post phrase... Christ loved the church by "GIVING himself"
Go so loved the world, he...GAVE his only begotten.
Christ laid down himself WILLINGLY.
The redemption of man was a plan devised by God, not man. He wasn't listening to the wants of man; he was meeting our needs. As such, the Father led, Christ followed, then sacrificed himself willingly, according to the well crafted and predetermined plan.
When men servant lead, they are following the Master's plan, then serve and sacrifice many of their own wants accordingly. If done correctly, it's not to be a servant/slave to the whims of the wife, but only to fulfill the plans and designs of the Master. "Nevertheless, not my will...." Ultimately, he is a servant of Christ, but he is also a servant, in love, to his wife and family.
To finish your post phrase... Christ loved the church by "GIVING himself"
Go so loved the world, he...GAVE his only begotten.
Christ laid down himself WILLINGLY.
The redemption of man was a plan devised by God, not man. He wasn't listening to the wants of man; he was meeting our needs. As such, the Father led, Christ followed, then sacrificed himself willingly, according to the well crafted and predetermined plan.
When men servant lead, they are following the Master's plan, then serve and sacrifice many of their own wants accordingly. If done correctly, it's not to be a servant/slave to the whims of the wife, but only to fulfill the plans and designs of the Master. "Nevertheless, not my will...." Ultimately, he is a servant of Christ, but he is also a servant, in love, to his wife and family.
Agreed to both of those.
I think probably where we tend to drift in to the submission topic on this forum is in those last two segments, @Slumberfreeze and @Mojo ... we sacrifice and lay down and seek to be patient, yes. But there still ultimately is the role for the man to be decisive and follow God's leading. A mentor of mine said "give her a good month of praying and hugging and talking softly, and if she still disagrees with the decision then you have to firmly follow God, reassuring all the while because it can be scary for her". I love both my women and always strive, over and over, to explain and comfort and understand. To do whatever I can to meet their needs and cherish their hearts. But it would be unloving of me to love them more than God's direction, or to love them in a sacrificial way that it hurt others.
I think probably where we tend to drift in to the submission topic on this forum is in those last two segments, @Slumberfreeze and @Mojo ... we sacrifice and lay down and seek to be patient, yes. But there still ultimately is the role for the man to be decisive and follow God's leading. A mentor of mine said "give her a good month of praying and hugging and talking softly, and if she still disagrees with the decision then you have to firmly follow God, reassuring all the while because it can be scary for her". I love both my women and always strive, over and over, to explain and comfort and understand. To do whatever I can to meet their needs and cherish their hearts. But it would be unloving of me to love them more than God's direction, or to love them in a sacrificial way that it hurt others.
People have pointed out above how women are weaker vessles in the physical and emotional senses and that is true. It is also true in the spiritual sense. The very language should bring this to mind; vessle for what? The spirit. Think Romans 8:9 and the surrounding verses.
The American church likes to say women are 'more spiritual'. But the truth of the matter is there are good reasons (1 Tim 2:14) why men are the spiritual leaders in the family and the church. And we need to keep this in mind as we are dwelling with understanding.
The American church likes to say women are 'more spiritual'. But the truth of the matter is there are good reasons (1 Tim 2:14) why men are the spiritual leaders in the family and the church. And we need to keep this in mind as we are dwelling with understanding.
But "slave to the whims of the wife" is exactly how it usually turns out. And that's exactly what the churches are teaching when you dig into the details. I used to like the term servant-leader; it captures an essence of leadership that is necessary. But it is an unbiblical term created by those who wish to invert the authority in the home, who can't see anything but in terms of power exchange.
To me, "sacrificial leadership" more accurately portrays the biblical essence without the unbiblical baggage. I don't know. It is hard for people to understand the burdens and costs of leadership. To Christ we are servants, to family we are leaders. We serve by leading.
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Honor
Honor
Respect. Esteem.
That's actually a really good practical example. Seeking out her opinion on things. Of course that can go wrong, her thinking it means you're asking for her direction or thinking you don't value her opinion if you disagree with it, but nonetheless.
But really it is a more day to day treating her respectfully. And this is important as your children will follow your example.
Another good example is not speaking ill of your wife to others. I.e. not backbiting. And like respect and love, this goes both ways.
Very well put. I have long been opposed to the idea of servant leadership as I find no biblical support for it. At least the way it’s typically presented in Christian circles...
I’m going to quibble with you on this one... I think respect is reserved for someone in authority... I value, esteem, love, honor etc my wife but I don’t respect her. I realize this is mostly semantics but I do think it’s important... some translations render the word respect in Ephesians 5:33 which imo is watering down what is actually said. (Reverence is the better translation imo) But my big problem with it is that even men who understand the proper dynamic between a husband and wife will then use the same word without any distinction when speaking about the attitude a husband should have towards his wife.
The word is honor.
Thayer's Definition
- a valuing by which the price is fixed
- of the price itself
- of the price paid or received for a person or thing bought or sold
- of the price itself
Polygyny is an unbiblical term, but we all use it.
It doesn't really matter how others use words and terms, as long as I know what those words mean to me. Dr. Seuss made a living off of that.
Again, I am encouraged to love as Christ loved the church...he gave; he sacrificed. He provided a Comforter. In due time he will judge. The two are not mutually exclusive.