HE'S BAAAAACK!
And I assume you mean that you want an example of when "Satan" fell morally, not position-ally, right?
(Which, btw, I could not provide)
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Is God the source of evil?
- Thread starter Mage
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HE'S BAAAAACK!
And I assume you mean that you want an example of when "Satan" fell morally, not position-ally, right?
(Which, btw, I could not provide)
But doesn't this indicate that Satan fell morally? Otherwise what is evil doing in the presence of God in heaven. This shows he was in the presence of God then fell morally and was cast out of the presence of God. Does it not?HE'S BAAAAACK!
And I assume you mean that you want an example of when "Satan" fell morally, not position-ally, right?
(Which, btw, I could not provide)
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
I don’t have my study journal with me now, but there are several Old Testament references to lightning from the sky etc
I don’t have my study journal with me now, but there are several Old Testament references to lightning from the sky etc
Terms like "Fell morally" or "evil" need to be defined, but more importantly who or what they are being applied to also needs to be clearly understood. There was a reference to Lucifer in the other thread. The context and Strongs concordance agree that Lucifer is not a fallen angel.
Studying satan is interesting, and can really change the way one views the world and world events.
Examining critically the mormon doctrine I was raised with certainly made me ask the same kind of difficult questions about other denominations, and see similarities in familiar doctrines that may go unnoticed to members.
Context is key to understanding. How a word is used through scripture is what determines its true meaning. Popular use changing the understanding of words is as dangerous as rewriting the Scriptures, and is a sad historical fact.
Just look for example at the Hebrew word 'Goy ' Scripturally it denotes a large group of people like a nation, and was used to describe God's Holy nation of Israel but the biased modern use has given it an unbiblical negative conotation. To a modern Jew it is a dirty word and not one they would appreciate being used of them.
Jesus called Peter satan, but what did Jesus mean by that.....and what did it mean to Peter?
You make a good point @Joleneakamama we should be careful that were are not talking past each other.
@Slumberfreeze when you say, "fell morally" what do you mean by that?HE'S BAAAAACK!
And I assume you mean that you want an example of when "Satan" fell morally, not position-ally, right?
(Which, btw, I could not provide)
I would say fall morally and "evil" are the same thing. In Hebrew, they are anything in Rebellion to God.
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Satan fell before God made man. I'm a believer in the ruined recreation theory which pretty much states Satan fell between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. This comes from a Hebraic view so it may take a min to explain if you have never heard. Pretty much Genesis 1:1 God created the Heavens and the Earth. Satan is on the original earth as the worship/praise leader and then he says that he will ascend above the Lord so that everyone will worship him. He then tries and is cast out of heaven. When Satan Fell the earth was destroyed. A lot of neat theories out there about dinosaurs being killed off when a giant asteroid hit the earth and some tie that to Satan falling since he was fallen like a star. Then in Genesis 2 you have God moving on the face of the waters. Notice there isn't a day water was made on but God's face is moving over it. Jewish scholars say that when God is moving over the face of the waters and the deep in Genesis 1:2 he is actually creating Hell for Satan and his fallen Angels. It was never intended for us but rather them. Then God recreates earth and puts man in the Garden which is believed to be the same place that Satan was worshiping God before his fall which makes us Satan's replacement. Man was then told to keep the Garden. The word we translate to keep is shamar and means to guard or protect. So man was to guard the garden from an adversary that wasn't named at that time. Anyways I can go on but I really just said all that to this. Satan fell before man. That is why when Jesus died on the cross he had to ascend and place his blood on the mercy seat in Heaven. Because sin didn't originate on earth but instead in heaven with Lucifer.
Well, like @AmericanIsraelite, I hold that John's vision is of a future event. (Which is in the first verse of Revelation). If that is so, then Satan certainly has not yet been cast out by Michael. I add to that the fact that Satan (in Job) was travelling the earth and was called to assemble before God in heaven with the rest of the sons of God. Access to what we refer to as heaven is not yet denied him. After all, he does accuse us night and day...
I have always tied the Angels that kept not their first estate to the Angels in Enoch and Genesis 6 that went in to the daughters of men. They left Heaven willingly and are locked up right now. Satan was cast out of Heaven but he and his Angels are still allowed to operate and are not bound yet.
It may have originated on earth but it definitely had a contamination effect that affected the tabernacle of heaven, and to some degree all of the physical creation and possibly some of the spiritual creation as well.
This is one reason there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth.
Maybe I should have been more specific. The word satan appears many times in scripture but in context just means adversary. You find figurative speech like this used throughout the old testament.
The verses that tell of Lucifer "falling from heaven" or the anointed cherub in which iniquity was found who was said to have been in "Eden the garden of God" are telling of earthly kings being judged and losing their high position that God gave them. God brought them very low. In Revelation Michael and his angels fight against the dragon who is called the devil and satan. These are end time prophesies about the judgment of this thing called mystery babylon that has been warring against the people of God.
When Jesus started teaching the truth there were many afraid of losing their positions. The religious authorities in Judea tried to shut him up because they were afraid the Romans would "Take away our place and our nation." There were many false gods being worshiped in that day, and those selling merchandise relating to false religions wanted to protect their livelihoods. So when His taught ones went out teaching the good news and casting out evil spirits (evil motivations) hearts were changed.
Both Jesus and John the Baptist called "Certain of the Pharisees" vipers, or children of their father the devil. I believe this is all figurative speech and Jesus' comment "I beheld satan as lightning fall from heaven" was about the political and maybe religious figures of that day losing their position because The Kingdom was at hand and liberty was being preached.
History shows they did indeed fall from their positions of power.
How can an earthly king be a cherub when a cherub is an angelic being? That reminds me of something i heard from Perry Stone that is pretty neat. Satan is a cherub which is not a normal angel. Cherubs have 4 faces and you can see Satan described as each of those 4 faces through scripture.
Ezekiel 28:12“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
Another neat thing is that Satan had a covering of 9 stones. These are 9 of the same stones that the high priest wore on his vestment but the high priest had 3 more Satan didn't have making 12. Each stone represents a tribe and an aspect or better yet, blessing of that tribe. Satan was missing the tribe of Judah, Levi, and I believe Dan was the last one. What is neat about that is that Judah represents kings, Levi represents priest, and Dan represents Judges and Satan never never will have the anointing for those 3 things.... but we do
haha I thought you were a hebraic guyDooooood!!!! @Soldier's Psalm layin the Truth down thick bruh... bustin out some Hebrew and such ...I like this guy. We can be GOOD friends!
#GodofGood
#GodofOrder
Same in Gad.
Gad... the prophet?
Well @Soldier's Psalm, when I read Ezekiel 28 I see nothing but prophetic figurative speech foretelling the destruction of a king along with the city he ruled over.
It does tend to make my head hurt to try and make these verses about anything else. He was a satan (adversary) for sure, but clearly a human king.
It does tend to make my head hurt to try and make these verses about anything else. He was a satan (adversary) for sure, but clearly a human king.
Yes
It can be found here https://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Book...ords=Gad&qid=1565138137&s=digital-text&sr=1-1
Chapter 14.
1And it came to pass on the first day of the seventh month, at New Year’s, in the four hundred and seventy-eighth year after the children of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the second year of King Solomon’s reign over Israel, I had a vision from the LORD, when I was upon the Gihon spring [south of the city of David] 2And I raised my eyes, and lo, the heavens rolled back like a scroll, and I saw the glory of the LORD, sitting on an extremely high throne. 3And here is the appearance of the throne: twelve stairs led up to the throne (six of gold and six of silver), and there was a square back to the throne, like a sapphire stone. 4And at its right side were three chairs and at its left side were four chairs near the throne, like the seven[ xl] that see the king’s face, covered with gold and silver and precious stones. 5And the glory of the LORD had the appearance like that of the rainbow, His covenant. 6And the host of heaven were standing before Him on His right hand and on His left, and Satan was standing by them, but behind them. The Books 7And then a man dressed in linen brought before the glory of the LORD three books that contained the records of every man. 8And he read the first book and it contained the just deeds of His people, and the LORD said, “These are granted eternal life.” 9And Satan said, “Who are these guilty people?” And the man dressed in linen cried to Satan like a ram’s horn saying, “Silence! This day is holy to our Lord.” 10And he read the second book, and it contained the unintentional sins of His people, and the LORD said, “Put that book aside, but save it, until one third of the month passes by, to see what they will do.” 11And he read the third book, and it contained the wicked deeds of His people. 12And the LORD said to Satan, “These are your share. Take them and do what you want with them.” 13And Satan took the wicked to a waste land to destroy them there. 14And the man dressed in linen cried like a ram’s horn, saying: 15“ Blessed are the people who know the joyful shout [who look toward the Rapture], O LORD, who walk in the light of Your countenance.”
Brilliant.
He was just an earthly king who was also a Cherub and was in Eden and also walked in the fires of creation? Maybe its just me but that seems like one heck of a stretch. I mean isn't it simpler to believe its Lucifer the fallen cherub who is named earlier and has the same imagery used to describe him in multiple books. I think maybe you are getting hung up that Satan means adversary but that is how all Hebrew names work. Like the name Asher means blessed and it is the word for blessed that you would use to describe someone or something. The name given to Satan is the word adversary which describes his character but is also his name.
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