Is the glass half full or half empty?

[Phillip]

I saw @Keith Martin post this in another thread. Since that thread seemed to be serious, I decided to respond to his words in another thread;

As I frequently assert, I'm the kind of guy who looks at the glass as half full even when it's almost empty.

I look at it this way, if the glass was filled to the halfway mark, then it is half full. If it was emptied to the halfway mark, then it is half empty. Basically, what is the point you perceive from?

 

[Keith Martin]

I look at it this way, if the glass was filled to the halfway mark, then it is half full. If it was emptied to the halfway mark, then it is half empty. Basically, what is the point you perceive from?

Before I can adequately respond, I first need some clarification when it comes to your orientation: what distinction do you go with when you weren't in the room to observe whether the glass was just filled half-way or emptied half-way? What then?

 

[Cap]

To me it's not whether the glass is half empty or half full, it's how do we get more of whats in the glass, no matter what the state is, to the point of overflow.

Positive progression is always the best course.

 

[Phillip]

Before I can adequately respond, I first need some clarification when it comes to your orientation: what distinction do you go with when you weren't in the room to observe whether the glass was just filled half-way or emptied half-way? What then?

Keith, I would assume, if we are unable obtain the method used to get the glass to the halfway mark on the glass, we take a poll to see what the average guy on the street wants to know and then make our distinction as to whether it’s half full or half empty. Poli-tic-tions do it all the time.

 

[frederick]

Keith, I would assume, if we are unable obtain the method used to get the glass to the halfway mark on the glass, we take a poll to see what the average guy on the street wants to know and then make our distinction as to whether it’s half full or half empty. Poli-tic-tions do it all the time.

But, more importantly here, will you have sufficient representation from the LBGTQRST transgender community for your poll to be accepted?

 

[Jim an Apostle]

To me it's not whether the glass is half empty or half full, it's how do we get more of whats in the glass, no matter what the state is, to the point of overflow.

not if the Glass contains poison

 

[Cap]

not if the Glass contains poison

In that case it only matters what the operator of the poison hotline thinks.

 

[paterfamilias]

I have never understood this debate. I get that it is an analogy obviously, are you an optimist or a pessimist. Being a third position kind of guy, I see it differently and reject the binary solution set that everyone else embraces.

It is not half empty and it is not half full. Those are value based judgements where ones opinions or prejudices come into and interfere with observation of facts.

The glass is at 50% capacity. Measurable, demonstrable, observable observations that you replicate.
So like I said, third position as compared to the optimist and the pessimist, I present to you the realist.

Though if one puts aside the silly glass metaphor, I would tend to lean heavily pessimistic and remain a devotee of Murphy's law to such an extent that it irritates those closest to me.

 

[Foxlily]

I have never understood this debate. I get that it is an analogy obviously, are you an optimist or a pessimist. Being a third position kind of guy, I see it differently and reject the binary solution set that everyone else embraces.

It is not half empty and it is not half full. Those are value based judgements where ones opinions or prejudices come into and interfere with observation of facts.

The glass is at 50% capacity. Measurable, demonstrable, observable observations that you replicate.
So like I said, third position as compared to the optimist and the pessimist, I present to you the realist.

Though if one puts aside the silly glass metaphor, I would tend to lean heavily pessimistic and remain a devotee of Murphy's law to such an extent that it irritates those closest to me.

You, like my husband, are an optimistic pessimist... Just like speaking/writing with eloquent coarseness (aka bluntness). So fun to make simple words sound better than they are.. heheheh

 

[Verifyveritas76]

I have never understood this debate. I get that it is an analogy obviously, are you an optimist or a pessimist. Being a third position kind of guy, I see it differently and reject the binary solution set that everyone else embraces.

It is not half empty and it is not half full. Those are value based judgements where ones opinions or prejudices come into and interfere with observation of facts.

The glass is at 50% capacity. Measurable, demonstrable, observable observations that you replicate.
So like I said, third position as compared to the optimist and the pessimist, I present to you the realist.

Though if one puts aside the silly glass metaphor, I would tend to lean heavily pessimistic and remain a devotee of Murphy's law to such an extent that it irritates those closest to me.

Welcome @paterfamilias Glad you’re here! When you have a moment, would you mind introducing yourself here so we can all properly welcome you?

 

[Jeff Ray]

I get that it is an analogy obviously, are you an optimist or a pessimist. Being a third position kind of guy, I see it differently and reject the binary solution set that everyone else embraces.

It is not half empty and it is not half full. Those are value based judgements where ones opinions or prejudices come into and interfere with observation of facts.

As an engineer I have a great deal of sympathy for a fact-based point of view. That said, I think you understand the question has nothing to do with the problem, and is actually about our attitude toward problems.

The fact you focus entirely on the facts is perfectly valid for many kinds of technical problems. But there are many other kinds of problems where the facts are mostly irrelevant, and the real problem is about the relationship between people, or some emotional value not shared between them, or some other extraneous, meta- aspect of the situation.

Thus many husbands cannot understand why a logical answer to their wife's problem misses the point and leaves both parties unsatisfied.

By the way, as an engineer I will say the glass is exactly the right size, with a safety factor of 2.

 

[cnystrom]

Computer guy response: Yes, it is.

 

[cnystrom]

I have never understood this debate. I get that it is an analogy obviously, are you an optimist or a pessimist. Being a third position kind of guy, I see it differently and reject the binary solution set that everyone else embraces.

It is not half empty and it is not half full. Those are value based judgements where ones opinions or prejudices come into and interfere with observation of facts.

The glass is at 50% capacity. Measurable, demonstrable, observable observations that you replicate.
So like I said, third position as compared to the optimist and the pessimist, I present to you the realist.

Though if one puts aside the silly glass metaphor, I would tend to lean heavily pessimistic and remain a devotee of Murphy's law to such an extent that it irritates those closest to me.

It looks like we have a new contender for the meaty debates!!!

Welcome!

 

[paterfamilias]

@Foxlily you are too kind
@Verifyveritas76 I will do that, thanks
@Jeff Ray I would think that applying the glass metaphor i.e. pessimist vs optimist in general personality type to the Mars vs Venus (I prefer the linear vs annulated myself as neither manage to encapsulate the huge mental and emotional chasm that the two sexes present to us but at least mine does not cast men as entirely conflict focused and women entirely focused on love) equation you are referencing, is a conflation that could quickly become problematic as both sexes are capable of being either an optimist or a pessimist. It will be a rare instance of extreme soy consumption or complete lack of male role models during formative years before you find a man whose mental processes are very similar to a woman's. I would actually, while we are on the topic even in a peripheral sense argue for woman being the more flexible sex mentally and more apt to be able via training to put themselves in a man's linear mindset. I personally can understand how women think conceptually and follow their process just fine and even on occasion realize that they simply want a sympathetic ear rather than a bullet pointed delineated solution. Emulate their thinking though... not a bloody chance. They remain in that respect an inscrutable mystery and I imagine that this may well be as intended.
So in short I don't see it applying to the sexes in general terms.
@cnystrom I have only heard this reference in passing but not had the opportunity to read enough on the site to fully appreciate it or its context to date. That being said, I am going to make a concerted effort to avoid engaging in discourse on any but the most trivial topics like this one as one of my wives is concerned that my opinions which are not likely to dovetail well with many other participants on the site, will end up making her a bit of a pariah. She has an investment of time here whereas I do not so it is no skin off my nose to just read and only occasionally remark.

 

[Cap]

Hey, another polygamy patriarch to pick his brain. That's cool.

Agreeing to adhere to morality absolutes will always outdo the rules we come up with on our own.

 

[cnystrom]

@cnystrom I have only heard this reference in passing but not had the opportunity to read enough on the site to fully appreciate it or its context to date. That being said, I am going to make a concerted effort to avoid engaging in discourse on any but the most trivial topics like this one as one of my wives is concerned that my opinions which are not likely to dovetail well with many other participants on the site, will end up making her a bit of a pariah. She has an investment of time here whereas I do not so it is no skin off my nose to just read and only occasionally remark.

None of our opinions dovetail with each other so you will fit right in!

 

[FollowingHim2]

The glass is at 50% capacity. Measurable, demonstrable, observable observations that you replicate.
So like I said, third position as compared to the optimist and the pessimist, I present to you the realist.

I like this! I also think it depends on what position the glass was in before. If it was empty, and was then filled half way, then it's half full - because it was being filled. If it was full and then drunk down to half way then it's half empty - because it's being emptied. Seems logical to me.

 

[Cap]

I like this! I also think it depends on what position the glass was in before. If it was empty, and was then filled half way, then it's half full - because it was being filled. If it was full and then drunk down to half way then it's half empty - because it's being emptied. Seems logical to me.

Good point, the process of filling is more important then the glasses static state, I think.

 

[cnystrom]

I like this! I also think it depends on what position the glass was in before. If it was empty, and was then filled half way, then it's half full - because it was being filled. If it was full and then drunk down to half way then it's half empty - because it's being emptied. Seems logical to me.

Unless it is Tuesday.

 

[frederick]

I like this! I also think it depends on what position the glass was in before. If it was empty, and was then filled half way, then it's half full - because it was being filled. If it was full and then drunk down to half way then it's half empty - because it's being emptied. Seems logical to me.

Uh oh, logic..... !