• Biblical Families is not a dating website. It is a forum to discuss issues relating to marriage and the Bible, and to offer guidance and support, not to find a wife. Click here for more information.

Jealousy

Perhaps YHWH is giving you this jealousy so that you know what it feels like and can empathise better with your wife. Maybe this is something that you need to learn, a future tool.

Our God is a jealous God. The bible makes this abundantly clear. Jealousy can be normal and healthy to a certain extent.

For those who don't know, I have been unsuccessfully using OK Cupid (the dating site) in an attempt to find another wife. As part of that, one has the opportunity to answer thousands of personality/match test questions. One of the earlier one is, "Is jealousy healthy in a relationship." Originally, which was over 2 years ago, I answered, "Yes," but after a short while I changed it, because I knew that my reason for doing so wouldn't be obvious, so I changed my answer to "No" and added the following explanation:

"This is a very interesting question. I could also answer this Yes. Soul-wrenching jealousy isn't healthy in a relationship. On the other hand, in general, jealousy is an excellent internal feedback system that warns one that some need is not being met -- or that a significant threat to the relationship may exist. If one is jealous because a partner is seeking something elsewhere that one is not willing to provide, then one's jealousy is simply selfish. If, however, one is jealous because a partner is seeking something elsewhere that one IS willing to provide, then one's jealousy is useful information that should be used as inspiration to either confront one's partner or consider the possibility that one's partner's behavior represents a deal-breaking betrayal. In addition, one always has to be very wary of being in relationship with anyone who would feel no jealousy if they contemplated their lover being someone else's lover, because that is likely an indication of a failure to sufficiently value one's partner. So, in that sense, jealousy is a highly healthy component in any relationship. As one who believes in the legitimacy of Biblical polygamy, I recognize that my partners and I will always struggle with jealousy, but I have seen that it is something that is manageable when everyone involved is committed to keeping jealousy in perspective. Relationships are always a matter of give and take. In a polygamous arrangement, one trades exclusivity for other advantages that wouldn't be available in other, exclusive relationships, including the opportunity to share someone who fits like a glove with more than one person."​

F

I do not think that feelings are right and wrong. They are just signals. They are telling you something.

As far as it being fair, I think the simple answer is that no it s not. But then life is not fair. Being a Christian is not about getting a fair deal. The parable of the vinyard workers comes to mind. Unfairly they all got the same reward. So fairness is not the goal.

So what is the goal? The goal is to do God's will. That is why I think it is important the reasons why you do what you do, and it will be easier for your wife to do it if she really believes that you are trying to follow God's will for your life, and for the leadership of your family. For that you have to do God's will in all aspects of being a husband and a father and not just when it comes to polygamy.

Amen, amen about feelings being signals. They are not hard facts or thoughts, but they are useful information that let you know something isn't occurring the way you'd want it to be occurring, or, conversely (as in joy, or horniness), that something is occurring the way you'd want it to be occurring.

I also agree with you wholeheartedly, @cnystrom, about life simply not being fair -- and that it's not even supposed to be fair. It's certainly not fair that I don't ever get to give birth or sprout wings and fly, but there are things I can do that women and birds can't do -- and even if that weren't the case the whole issue of trying to make things fair is another example of falsely thinking one could do God's job better than He can.

I didn't know this, congratulations! Pregnancy hormones do crazy things to a woman. It's not a great time to be going through a huge emotional upheaval. Everything will be bigger and take longer to deal with.
One of the things that really helps with understanding PM is having multiple children. The love you have for the first is not diminished when the second comes along, but is doubled. In her case, the love for you won't change when she has your child, she will just create more. It's a different love, but it still takes the same amount of effort, time, and feelings. It might be a good chance to explain that to her.

@FollowingHim2, I sure could have used this post from you 25 years ago, because the insight imbedded in it is something I entirely failed to grasp at the time. I'll get to that in a minute.

First, I want to second your assertion that, while somewhat different, having multiple children is a good subject to bring up to explain how a man can love more than one woman. I think it was additionally brilliant for you to bring up about how her love for him won't change when the child arrives. However, I might put a little different spin on it, because from my psychotherapy experience I know it is not infrequently the case that, at least for a significant period of time, some women really do temporarily lose much of their love for their husband when their first child arrives. It would be 'spin' in those cases to state that the love has transformed into something more wonderful, because these women have instead relegated their husbands to a role in the back seat relative to the child. Again, this is typically a reflection of unresolved issues within the woman or between the couple that they either weren't aware of or put off addressing -- and I also agree that, more often, wives do love their husbands more after they have children together, just as most husbands love their wives more after they become parents.

Back to the imbedded insight: You wrote, "Pregnancy hormones do crazy things to a woman. It's not a great time to be going through a huge emotional upheaval. Everything will be bigger and take longer to deal with." At the time there was no escaping knowing that pregnancy was the excuse, but Kristin (my present wife; married 1987) and I started into a relationship with another woman named Claire (who had grown and almost-grown children) at the beginning of 1993, a relationship that was, in each person's understanding, intended to be permanent. We had plans to move out of our separate dwellings and all move in together into another, then-currently unoccupied home of Claire's. Everything was about as perfect as it could be. Part of what had cemented the relationship was that Kristin and I had previously split up for a bit, and Kristin had enlisted Claire's assistance in persuading me to refrain from following through on divorce.

Then Kristin got pregnant with our first child. At first this was just cause for celebration all the way around, but after some time Kristin came to me with an ultimatum: sever ties with Claire or sever ties with Kristin and the unborn child. I'd already been through a previous divorce that involved an unsuccessful custody battle, and I was determined to not go through that again or subject my child to it. I discussed it with Claire. She was, and I'm sure still is, a very gentle and loving soul, and her response was to say that she respected the upheaval Kristin was going through and that the two of us should just respect it, split up, and wait and see. She was confident Kristin would change her mind sometime after Felix was born.

Kristin did not change her mind. Not only did she not change her mind, despite having known my desire to be polygynous since before she asked me to marry her, she gravitated to a very antagonistic stance against not only us having a plural family but against it for anyone. At first, I thought, like Claire, that maybe this would dissipate, but it did not.

I believe, though, that within your post, @FollowingHim2, is the insight that, rather than forcing Kristin to just suck it up while she was pregnant OR giving up altogether, which is effectively what I did for at least 15 years, I should have waited until Felix was several months old and then reasserted the legitimacy of the relationship with Claire, who at that time was still very much waiting for things to return to our previous normal. I believe -- partially based on the fact that Kristin is now very sad that we turned Claire away -- that, had I exhibited the necessary leadership skills at that time in re-presenting the idea that getting back together with Claire was the right thing to do, Kristin would have recognized the error of her ways, and the two of us would have avoided a lot of the turmoil we went through 15-20 years later. Instead of asserting myself, all I was doing was just passively waiting for something else to change or for Kristin to independently change her mind, and that was just plain foolish. Eventually, Claire gave up on both of us. We have even made efforts to reach out to her, and she won't respond.

Of course, hindsight is always (or at least is sometimes) 20/20. I hadn't studied Scripture back then anywhere near to what I have in the interim, and I had next to no support group for what I was trying to do.

I thank you again, though, @FollowingHim2, for giving me even more perspective on all of it.
 
However, I might put a little different spin on it, because from my psychotherapy experience I know it is not infrequently the case that, at least for a significant period of time, some women really do temporarily lose much of their love for their husband when their first child arrives. It would be 'spin' in those cases to state that the love has transformed into something more wonderful, because these women have instead relegated their husbands to a role in the back seat relative to the child. Again, this is typically a reflection of unresolved issues within the woman or between the couple that they either weren't aware of or put off addressing -- and I also agree that, more often, wives do love their husbands more after they have children together, just as most husbands love their wives more after they become parents.
This is something that I find fascinating. There is what I call the '4 month blip'. After a woman has her first child (also after subsequent children but much reduced), there is a moment at 4 months when you realise your marriage is in a mess. For different women this comes out in different ways. Most start thinking their husbands are unhelpful, somewhat useless, don't really love them or appreciate them much anymore, and they wonder what on earth happened to the guy they married.
There are many reasons for this, here are some:

- Hormones. Pregnancy hormones stay within your body for 3 months after having a baby, so by 4 months you've finally lost all those hormones that were helping you keep going.
- Sleep deprivation. What even is sleep? Hubby sleeps all night, but the woman has to get up and feed baby, change nappies, settle baby etc. Hubby then doesn't want to get up and go to work in the morning because he's 'tired'. *cue wife giving him death stares*.
- Time. Married couples just don't have as much time together as they did before. They're hardly ever alone, there's a baby there all the time, probably even in the same room/bed.
- Sex. Not happening much if at all. Also, the woman's body is pretty much focused on the baby, all her energy is going into baby, the last thing she wants is hubby grabbing her sore boobs and saying he wants to take her to bed.
- Body is a mess. I mean, it's supposed to bounce back again right away right? Especially with breast feeding because that's magic juice. That's what all the books say... But now it's still a mess even though she's not pregnant anymore, it's probably never going to go back to what she thought it would be, and how on earth could hubby still be attracted to this mess, especially one that hasn't showered in a week?
- Unrealistic ideals. She has a new baby and she is trying to leave the house every day. Maybe she's even trying to get some work done when baby sleeps. She's over the newborn stage, so it's expected she'll turn up to any and every event.

Most men have no idea what their wife is going through. I hear it so much in women's groups, that they are in this funk and they think it's all hubby's fault. I just say to them that this is totally normal and just about everyone feels this way. It feels like it's forever, but it is really only temporary. Understanding that it's a natural blip really seems to help.
The newborn stage is full of excitement and joy and adrenaline (it's amazing how long this will keep you going for when you've had hardly any sleep).
The 3-6 month stage is often full of chaos and marriage difficulties.
The 6-12 month stage is where your marriage is starting to come back to normal and you're finally getting the hang of this baby thing.

Things do go back to normal, but it's something that takes time and work. You have to work on spending time together when you can. You need to communicate. You need to understand that a lot of your thoughts and feelings aren't actually real but are based on the huge changes going on and sleep deprivation.
And SLEEP! Nap during the day, get hubby to take baby in the morning and let you have a sleep in, find a way, because you'll find that after a few hours sleep the world is a much different place, the baby is wonderful again, and hubby is about perfect (you knew there was a reason you married him!).

I'm not sure this has much to do with your post, I think I've gone off on a bit of a tangent, but it's one of those things that never gets said or explained.
 
@Keith Martin, I've been pondering the twists and angles of jealousy presented in your first post. The enemy always has a counterfeit for everything YHWH has that's good. I've got the flip sides of pride figured out, though most pulpits never mention the right kind of pride. All you ever hear about is the wrong sort. I've got the flip sides of fear figured out. These two topics seem to be really clear in my mind. However, with the topic of jealousy, I can see it in Scripture multiple times ash the LORD God recounts his jealousy over Israel, but never towards Israel. Because it is God saying this, obviously there has to be a good side to jealously. What does that look like in our humanity in this world. Because I'm a 1st wife of a man considering BF, nor a 2nd or 3rd wife in an existing BF setting, all I can do is read and try to understand their struggles with jealousy which alway seems to center on the wrong side of jealousy.

I know Scripture says, "...for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame." Song of Solomon 8:6.
It's obvious that jealousy has the potential to reach an intensity that is worse than death--physical death? causing the need to die to self? No indicator that life springs from any sort of jealousy.

So what DOES the flip side, the positive view of jealousy look like in real life?
 
RE: It's not about the nail.

Years ago I was taking a lay counseling class at my church. We were told that when someone tells you something, it is usually for one of three reasons:
1) They are seeking sympathy (as seen in the video).
2) They are simply sharing, typically for the purpose of building fellowship, etc.
3) They are asking advice, for help in fixing a problem.

After I learned this, whenever my wife shared something with me I would try to figure out her motive before responding. Being a dumb guy, I often had to resort to asking her outright.

It did quite a bit to improve our communication.
 
So what DOES the flip side, the positive view of jealousy
It is right for a husband to be jealous over his wife, to firmly hold her as his own and deny the advances of any other men.
That parallels the jealousy of God over Israel.

It is not right for any follower of God to be jealous of the relationship God has with another person, and wish to have God relate exclusively to them. Nor is it right for a woman to jealously keep her man from having a relationship with another.

Righteous vs unrighteous jealousy is simply about who is being jealous over whom.
 
@Keith Martin, I've been pondering the twists and angles of jealousy presented in your first post. The enemy always has a counterfeit for everything YHWH has that's good. I've got the flip sides of pride figured out, though most pulpits never mention the right kind of pride. All you ever hear about is the wrong sort. I've got the flip sides of fear figured out. These two topics seem to be really clear in my mind. However, with the topic of jealousy, I can see it in Scripture multiple times ash the LORD God recounts his jealousy over Israel, but never towards Israel. Because it is God saying this, obviously there has to be a good side to jealously. What does that look like in our humanity in this world. Because I'm [neither] a 1st wife of a man considering BF, nor a 2nd or 3rd wife in an existing BF setting, all I can do is read and try to understand their struggles with jealousy which alway seems to center on the wrong side of jealousy.

I know Scripture says, "...for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame." Song of Solomon 8:6.
It's obvious that jealousy has the potential to reach an intensity that is worse than death--physical death? causing the need to die to self? No indicator that life springs from any sort of jealousy.

So what DOES the flip side, the positive view of jealousy look like in real life?

As @FollowingHim mentions, the Biblical positive view is one of taking responsibility for the full protection of one's wife, but I would add that, in real life, jealousy has the definitively positive function of redirecting one's focus such that one attends to the depth of importance of the person about whom one is feeling jealous: s/he is so worthy of standing up to defend the boundaries of the relationship that one feels a gut-piercing pain over it. The positive view can also encapsulate noting what a shame it is when someone doesn't feel jealous after discovering that hir spouse has been cheating.

In the context of considering Biblical polygamy, though, we also have to remember that jealousy is an emotional response amplified by a Niagara-Falls-intensity flood of hormones. "Danger, danger," they say. "Something is very radically f***ed up right now. Stop everything and fix it." Well, that's what the hormones and emotions would be saying if they weren't too stupid to speak. The initial reaction is worthy of attention and even some validation, but it's also important to remind oneself that the reaction is also quite significantly conditioned by our culture's ongoing insistence that anything other than monogamy is a threat to one's marriage. Which means no one teaches young women (or even young men, for that matter) that there are distinctions among situations that invoke jealousy, so they don't learn to prepare themselves differentially -- as one does, say, for example, when one learns to drive an automobile. One doesn't just have one reaction to seeing a deer cross the road; one has to learn to perk up one's 'ears' when one sees one of those walnut-sized-brain creatures crossing the road ahead and then proceed with extra caution. One can't be a decent driver by just having one set reaction to deer. One can't rely only on being extra cautious all the time; sometimes it's necessary to apply the brakes, RIGHT NOW, and HARD! But slamming on the brakes every time one sees a deer somewhere in one's field of vision wouldn't be considered a mature approach to driving.

Nor should it be to jealousy.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top