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Male Headship

D

DeathIsNotTheEnd

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Hi all

My wife is struggling with a number of things right now which I believe generally relate to the topic of submission and the man's headship. As we talk about things I am trying to have sound Biblical verses and examples to discuss from. But as this is a new topic for me as well I am feeling unsure of where to start. Could anyone help lay out verses and logic paths that show this in the Bible? :)
 
There was a discussion about a husband's covering for a wife that I think would fit but I don't remember were it is.
 
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EternalDreamer said:
Hi all

My wife is struggling with a number of things right now which I believe generally relate to the topic of submission and the man's headship. As we talk about things I am trying to have sound Biblical verses and examples to discuss from. But as this is a new topic for me as well I am feeling unsure of where to start. Could anyone help lay out verses and logic paths that show this in the Bible? :)
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@EternalDreamer, I just read a very good discussion on this idea of male headship made by @Jim an Apostle in the thread "Ultimatum". He's already in a plural marriage and based upon his comment, he has a lot of things figured out. I'm sure you'd benefit from connecting with him. I've followed your situation with interest for several weeks/months now and hope all turns out well. It's been encouraging to see how persistently you pursue your desire for a plural family but also how important it is to bring your first wife along and handle the situation rightly from your side of it. Blessings to you and wishes for a wonderful 2019.
 
Right from the beginning. Eve ate the fruit and nothing happened, then she gave it to her husband, he ate it, and their eyes were opened. That tells you that right from the start the husband was in charge, he was responsible. Had he told her off and explained the rules to her again and refused to eat the fruit we may be in a completely different situation than we are now.
 
This is the starting point. I like to start with the comparison of wives to the church and the husband to Christ. That's pretty all encompassing. If she can tell you when the church can rebel against Christ then she's found the place where a woman can rebel against her husband. Everyone wants to start hemming.and hawing about the husband's side of that equation but that has no bearing on the woman's role. She is called to submit to her husband, not her good and godly husband.
 
ZecAustin said:
This is the starting point. I like to start with the comparison of wives to the church and the husband to Christ. That's pretty all encompassing. If she can tell you when the church can rebel against Christ then she's found the place where a woman can rebel against her husband. Everyone wants to start hemming.and hawing about the husband's side of that equation but that has no bearing on the woman's role. She is called to submit to her husband, not her good and godly husband.
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This thread discusses some of that... primarily from the perspective of the husbands duty.
 
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Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. [23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
 
FollowingHim2 said:
Right from the beginning. Eve ate the fruit and nothing happened, then she gave it to her husband, he ate it, and their eyes were opened. That tells you that right from the start the husband was in charge, he was responsible. Had he told her off and explained the rules to her again and refused to eat the fruit we may be in a completely different situation than we are now.
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This is also demonstrated by sin entering the world via Adam (Romans 5:12). The creation story is a story of patriarchy (naming the animals, she comes from his rib, etc), not monogamy.

But the clearest explanation of the mystery revealed is in Ephesians 5 listed above that makes everything clear to those who truly want to know the truth of healthy male female relationships.
 
EternalDreamer said:
Hi all

My wife is struggling with a number of things right now which I believe generally relate to the topic of submission and the man's headship. As we talk about things I am trying to have sound Biblical verses and examples to discuss from. But as this is a new topic for me as well I am feeling unsure of where to start. Could anyone help lay out verses and logic paths that show this in the Bible? :)
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You can lay out all the logic in the world, and ultimately it will be the Holy Spirit that will do the work. It took me years of terrible fighting, literal kicking and screaming, to finally humble myself to the Father's Word and Will. Anytime I thought I was being treated unfairly, I would seek ammunition to fight with from the Word (ie. "husbands, love your wives, etc.). 100% of the time I would get my answer. No matter the passage I tried to find. No matter if it was talking specifically about marriage or generally about believers' behavior. The Holy Spirit will convict; it is on us to choose to obey or rebel.

The most important thing my husband did in those years was never give in to my ungodly (which I was never able recognize at the time) actions, insofar as he would call me out immediately and not let me get my way, whatever that happened to be. This taught me that there is no use to try to be in control. Ever. He was/is the master. I chose to marry him. I will now choose to submit because it's not worth the fight. I will not win. Ever. ;) It's all about training (not a popular concept in most circles). Just like with your little ones someday soon, your wife will be a reflection of your training. Hope that makes sense and helps. :)

And yet, the fact that you've already added a second before she's even come to the Submission/Headship Truth and the fact that y'all recently had your first child, compounds these soul-searchingcrushing situations so much more. The spiritual battle for her mind is critical right now.
 
Cap said:
And the other part of the equation that makes this possible, husbands love you wives as Christ loves the church.

Here we go round and round again.
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So I don't have to love my wife if she doesn't submit to me? I mean that's the other part of the equation that makes this possible right? When my wife is rebellious I don't have to love her? That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure it's what you meant though. I'm pretty sure you mean that a wife doesn't have to submit to a husband she doesn't feel loves her. I doubt you really mean to turn that around and let the husband apply it equally.
 
The command for a husband to love his wife is not conditional upon her treatment of him.

The commands for a wife to obey, submit and reverence are not conditional upon his treatment of her.
 
EternalDreamer said:
There is nothing I can do to convince her or make her like it. So my goal has been to simply keep loving her, to seek a closer relationship with her, and to be a better husband.
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I believe this is really healthy:

1. Healthy to realize that things are NOT in your control. It is time to trust and rely on God more than ever.

2. Healthy to see the things that you can control: to keep loving your wife and to seek a closter relationship with her and to be a better husband.

I think you are on the right track brother. Keep up the good work. God's will above all else.
 
ZecAustin said:
So I don't have to love my wife if she doesn't submit to me? I mean that's the other part of the equation that makes this possible right? When my wife is rebellious I don't have to love her? That's an interesting idea. I'm not sure it's what you meant though. I'm pretty sure you mean that a wife doesn't have to submit to a husband she doesn't feel loves her. I doubt you really mean to turn that around and let the husband apply it equally.
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Sorry but you have confused this whole thing. Submitting is what wives are called to do. Love is what husbands are called to do. The end.

You work out the details in your own family.
 
Cap said:
Sorry but you have confused this whole thing. Submitting is what wives are called to do. Love is what husbands are called to do. The end.
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You forgot about “subject” Ephesians 5:24
Thayer's Definition
  1. to arrange under, to subordinate

  2. to subject, put in subjection

  3. to subject one's self, obey

  4. to submit to one's control

  5. to yield to one's admonition or advice

  6. to obey, be subject

    This word was a Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use, it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden".


and “reverence” Ephesians 5:33
Thayer's Definition
  1. to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
    1. to put to flight, to flee

    2. to fear, be afraid
      1. to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
        1. of those startled by strange sights or occurrences

        2. of those struck with amazement
      2. to fear, be afraid of one

      3. to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
    3. to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience


 
Pacman said:
You forgot about “subject” Ephesians 5:24
Thayer's Definition
  1. to arrange under, to subordinate

  2. to subject, put in subjection

  3. to subject one's self, obey

  4. to submit to one's control

  5. to yield to one's admonition or advice

  6. to obey, be subject

    This word was a Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use, it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden".


and “reverence” Ephesians 5:33
Thayer's Definition
  1. to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)
    1. to put to flight, to flee

    2. to fear, be afraid
      1. to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm
        1. of those startled by strange sights or occurrences

        2. of those struck with amazement
      2. to fear, be afraid of one

      3. to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)
    3. to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience

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The other part of the equation is defining LOVE.
 
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